Phoenixkh: An Old Man's Continuum....

[LRod]

Their first razor was the GC1.0 that actually had a Zamak head first until they went completely stainless steel. The 1.0 has a .95 gap as opposed to the .65 gap on the 1.1 The GC1.0 is now unobtanium and no longer sold. They all get raving review for their shaving capabilities.

To me personally, I find their choice of handles slightly offsetting.

Guido

Thanks, I had read about it at some point and forgot the 1.0 was actually the first.
I should have know by simply looking at the number 1.0

The handles:
The 1.1 looked weird, long and thin (not my preference) but I ended up loving it.
Looks different in person and it just works!
The 2.0 also looked strange. Shorter and wider but kind of odd.
It's incredibly good and as @Phoenixkh has mentioned, it works to
perfectly balance the razor.
The GC razors are one of those things that has to be tried to realize how good it is.
But first you must get passed the visual oddities and the name
I would hands down give it the title of best sub $100 full stainless DE razor! (for me!)

 

[LRod]

It's quite a solid piece of kit. It just feels right. As you mentioned a while ago, the handle screws in so nicely. I do agree, with a simple name change, they'd garner a lot more interest. Precision manufacturing at its finest... It's an easier design to manufacture than the Athena but they did an excellent job.

The only negative I could find was the packaging. The box was ok but like everyone else, mine was rattling around in their 3D printed plastic insert. Thankfully, it didn't mark up the razor but they really need to address that.

I sent them an email about that as soon as I got the first one and they told me they were going to fix it in the latest ones that would ship. They said they were adding some filler material in the boxes. Interestingly enough, the 1.1 arrives in a normal cardboard box with no issues. Looks something like the Claymore box! Weird that they're "green" and they went from simple cardboard to plastic that shatters, LOL!!
I guess yours wasn't one of the ones that got the filler. Lets see if mine arrives the same!

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

I've become less inclined to buy razors offered with multiple baseplates.

It's a great idea assuming one knows which baseplate to buy, and an exceedingly expensive endeavor sometimes when one doesn't.

My most recent purchase in the multiple baseplate arena was the newest RR razor, the Superslant. I purchased the "aggressive" L3 and the "mild" L1++.

The L3 is not at all to my liking, but the L1++ is nice enough so I won't have to fine tune the razor by buying more.

I could say I got lucky and had to spend "only" ~$200 to get it right.

Don't get me wrong; I'm a big fan of slants and very glad to have a new and enjoyable SS slant which kinda sorta fills an evolutionary niche. I already had the Stealth Slant and the Wunderbar. I believe the Superslant is in the same lineage + it's a nice razor. Perhaps very very nice. I've not used it enough to be sure yet.

Still, the multiple baseplate option razors can get out of hand.

Case in point. Consider the new multiple baseplates option Atelier DURDAN from France. Just fooling around and pricing it having read a few reviews, I discovered that buying one baseplate, one cap, one handle, and the nice box, in bronze, could set me back about $750.

Were I to need all the additional baseplates to find the right one, I could "invest" about another $900! Seriously.

I'm not in any way knocking the razor nor disparaging anyone who owns, buys, or covets these beautiful French razors, but, for my money it is very hard to beat the Lamba Athena which has no baseplate options and doesn't need any.

My guess is buying from Greek mechanical engineers is a lot better deal for me than buying from French craftsmen. Again, it's only my purchases and my money which concern me.

All that said, I have a bunch of Karve baseplates and maybe a few other multiple baseplate razors, so it's not like I've avoided all the rabbit holes. It's also not like I've been exceedingly thrifty in pursuit of shaving nirvana and my scientific curiosities.

Happy shaves,

Jim

​

 

[Mr. Shavington]

I've become less inclined to buy razors offered with multiple baseplates.

It's a great idea assuming one knows which baseplate to buy, and an exceedingly expensive endeavor sometimes when one doesn't.

View attachment 1576362

View attachment 1576364

View attachment 1576366

My most recent purchase in the multiple baseplate arena was the newest RR razor, the Superslant. I purchased the "aggressive" L3 and the "mild" L1++.

The L3 is not at all to my liking, but the L1++ is nice enough so I won't have to fine tune the razor by buying more.

I could say I got lucky and had to spend "only" ~$200 to get it right.

Don't get me wrong; I'm a big fan of slants and very glad to have a new and enjoyable SS slant which kinda sorta fills an evolutionary niche. I already had the Stealth Slant and the Wunderbar. I believe the Superslant is in the same lineage + it's a nice razor. Perhaps very very nice. I've not used it enough to be sure yet.

Still, the multiple baseplate option razors can get out of hand.



View attachment 1576377



Case in point. Consider the new multiple baseplates option Atelier DURDAN from France. Just fooling around and pricing it having read a few reviews, I discovered that buying one baseplate, one cap, one handle, and the nice box, in bronze, could set me back about $750.

Were I to need all the additional baseplates to find the right one, I could "invest" about another $900! Seriously.



View attachment 1576375



I'm not in any way knocking the razor nor disparaging anyone who owns, buys, or covets these beautiful French razors, but, for my money it is very hard to beat the Lamba Athena which has no baseplate options and doesn't need any.

My guess is buying from Greek mechanical engineers is a lot better deal for me than buying from French craftsmen. Again, it's only my purchases and my money which concern me.

All that said, I have a bunch of Karve baseplates and maybe a few other multiple baseplate razors, so it's not like I've avoided all the rabbit holes. It's also not like I've been exceedingly thrifty in pursuit of shaving nirvana and my scientific curiosities.

Happy shaves,

Jim

​

This surely deserves a dedicated thread. It’s an interesting and probably quite involved topic. So interesting, in fact, that you’re gonna get a novel in response (for which I apologise in advance)….

My take is that some razor designs work very well for a wide range of users, so there isn’t a demand for additional base plates. I haven’t seen anybody ask for a more efficient version of the Lambda Athena or the Karve Overlander - they just seem to be smooth and efficient enough to satisfy most people. I guess people generally consider the standard configurations to be optimal, and the way they perform has broad appeal. These seem to be pretty much everyman razors. Maybe the Blackland Blackbird is another example, for a different reason - the razor can be mild/medium efficiency or aggressive/high efficiency depending on whether you shave shallow or steep, so it feels like two very different razors in one. But while these razors seem to work for most people, are they the best options for both daily shavers and non-daily shavers, and for both people with light and dense beards? I don’t know the answer to that, but I would imagine if you plotted how much each user likes the razor you would get a normal distribution curve with a high standard deviation - i.e. nearly everyone likes the razor but users in the middle like it the most. The area under the graph essentially represents sales, so this ought to be a very successful kind of razor, selling a lot and not costing too much to make. A nice trick if you can pull it off.

Then there are razors that are liked by some users but others feel there is a good design in there if only it was configured differently - so you have 13 Karve CB options, 7 advertised versions of each Wolfman razor (plus custom gaps), etc. Maybe that means they are good designs but the standard configuration has a more narrow user appeal. The new Aylsworth razor came out and a lot of people liked it but wanted a + plate, which they got, and now they want an open comb + plate too. So it appears these razor designs have characteristics which narrow the group of customers the razor will suit, but the razor maker can extend the razor’s appeal (and sales) by offering multiple configurations, or he can accept that the razor won’t suit everyone and offer a range of different razors instead (or just offer one razor option and sell fewer, to a more limited customer base).

Clearly offering interchangeable base plate options is more cost effective than making multiple razors, but somehow it all feels like a compromise to me, just like most adjustable razors are - if all you do is change the base plate or blade gap then is it ever going to be as good as a razor as one that is entirely designed for different requirements? Is it really the best possible solution to give me a plate that will simply make the same razor a bit more efficient and a bit less comfortable? Still, they seem to satisfy people well enough, and it enables razor manufacturers to expand the user base of one razor without investing much in R&D. I still think that offering entirely separate models for daily shavers and non-daily shavers should yield a better, more optimised razor - experience tells me there are better solutions and I don’t have to accept that a linear relationship between efficiency and harshness is inevitable in razors.

So, logically, I would think the normal curve graph for multi-plate razors has multiple curves, all with low standard deviations, and all with the mean peak rating being a bit lower than the peak for the standard configuration - i.e. everyone can find an option that they like pretty well, but it’s almost nobody’s best razor. The total area under the multiple curves (i.e. razor sales) increases according to how many plates are offered, but there is a higher cost to produce all these plates (some of which is borne by the customers who buy a bunch of useless plates).

The normal curve graph for a manufacturer who offers separate razors designed for different users would look similar, except that the mean peak user rating for each curve is higher. But the cost to design and produce these razors is also higher.

All of these business models work. I think if you manage to make a razor with broad appeal then that is the most profitable, but not everyone will love the razor as much as those it suits best (though quite a lot of people might love it). If you make multi-plate razors then that’s viable but costs a bit more and the razor quality is also compromised for most users. If you make multiple razors then there is no reason for quality to be less, and you may have more people who love one of your razors, but the cost of doing business is much higher.

Thinking only about razor quality, I think if we agree that an adjustable razor is a jack of all trades and master of none (nothing wrong with that; it’s useful), then we also must accept that offering different base plate options for a non-adjustable results in a razor that is also compromised and not as good as it could be (except perhaps for the standard configuration, which doesn’t suit everyone). It would have all the disadvantages of an adjustable razor (except the weight), but does not give you the advantage of allowing easy adjustment during the shave.

Always hard to generalise completely, though. If Wolfman had stuck with only the WR2 0.95mm standard gap then I wouldn’t have my WR2 1.55 and I would have missed something that is amazing for me. Maybe there’s something about the WR2 design that particularly suits different gap options. Or, I don’t know, maybe James changes more than the base plate when he makes a different gap razor - he does advise against swapping base plates between his razors.

 

[Phoenixkh]

@Chan Eil Whiskers /Jim, I agree with your general premise... it can get expensive. That's where B&B comes in. If you get to know a few people who like and/or need the same things you do, you can limit that expense to some degree. Take the Blutt BR-1, for instance. I bought two base plates: the .86 and the 1.20. I've almost decided to sell the Overlander, even though it's beautiful now that Chris replated it with 24K hardened gold. The .86 base plate shaves better for me than the Overlander and the 1.2 base plate ups the efficiency at least a half step. I like them both.

With the Lupo, I have 4 base plates with which to experiment. They are very cost effective.

Now, the Athena.... what more can be said. I just love everything about it. I don't really understand how it works. On paper, it doesn't seem like it will produce a close shave, but it sure does.

The Green Cult 2.0 also has 4 base plate options. The Level 2 gave me possibly the closest shave I've ever had. I shaved at 5PM yesterday and checked my face when I woke up in the middle of the night at 3AM.... couldn't feel a thing. I got up at 7AM and I could barely feel my whiskers on my chin and upper lip.. my cheeks were still smooth. That is very unusual for me. @LRod said something similar. I doubt I'll need the Level 3 base plate so I probably wasted $40 or so.

All in all, I'm thankful for the experiences of people here on B&B. You guys have a wealth of knowledge that has guided me since day one. From soaps, to brushes and now razors, I've received stellar advice. I have several months of experimentation ahead of me. I love that, though I'll have to sprinkle in shaves from my top 5 razors. I can feel the Blutt and the X1 calling me.

 

[Phoenixkh]

@Mr. Shavington , thank you for that well thought-out response to Jim's post. You brought up an interesting point for me. I wonder if it's possible to ask the artisan razor designers who offer different plates with their razor and find out which plate was used in the original design. That might tell us... the razor was designed to work with base plate "X", but I offered three other plates: one with a reduced gap and 2 with increased gaps. We might know where we fit on that curve and buy accordingly.

It's too bad shipping costs are so exorbitant these days or we could each throw in a few shekels and buy the various plates for a group pass-around for a particular razor that interests us. At the moment, the best way might just to watch BST and see if a base plate that interests us shows up there. We are seeing quite a few "want to buy" threads as well so I think that puts sellers and buyers together effectively.

 

[Mr. Shavington]

@Mr. Shavington , thank you for that well thought-out response to Jim's post. You brought up an interesting point for me. I wonder if it's possible to ask the artisan razor designers who offer different plates with their razor and find out which plate was used in the original design. That might tell us... the razor was designed to work with base plate "X", but I offered three other plates: one with a reduced gap and 2 with increased gaps. We might know where we fit on that curve and buy accordingly.

It's too bad shipping costs are so exorbitant these days or we could each throw in a few shekels and buy the various plates for a group pass-around for a particular razor that interests us. At the moment, the best way might just to watch BST and see if a base plate that interests us shows up there. We are seeing quite a few "want to buy" threads as well so I think that puts sellers and buyers together effectively.

Agreed. From what I’ve noticed, more often than not the mildest plate is the original one. Most razor makers are delicate flowers when it comes to shaving themselves, or they perceive that their primary customer is looking for the mildest shave possible and they are sceptical about the scale of demand for ‘enthusiast’ levels of efficiency and blade feel. I wonder what their sales figures say, but I guess they’d confirm that mild sells more.

 

[APBinNCA]

It looks like we are turning Kim's journal into a discussion so apologies ahead of time. The one thing I have generally hated about adjustables is that all they do is move the safety bar up and down with the exception of one razor. Not only does this change the gap and possibly blade exposure, depending on the razor, it changes the shave angle. Depending on one's preference, this may be no problem, but it does fundamentally change how the razor feels to different people using different numbers.

Now I am not trying to say there is anything wrong with this per say, but more generally about the point above moving one way or the other away from the original design with baseplate swap razors. Theoretically, they are superior in the sense that the baseplate can be made wider or anything else necessary to preserve the original geometry while accomplishing a different gap and exposure. But the question then becomes does this fit holistically with the original razor even if it is accomplished technically? Which I think is what Mr. Shavington is getting at.

The Razor Rock razors with A and AS(or + and ++) plates are a good example of how this might be getting carried too far; from what I have read, those plates provide diminishingly little improvement and only increase aggression. The plates that I have for my Tatara don't make huge changes and don't affect the fundamental characteristics of the razor, similar to their adjustable from what I have read. I don't have a lot of examples that I have personal experience with to reference, but it seems like maybe the compromise is that every plate being proposed needs to be vetted for whether it preserves the character of the original design or whether it merely gives customers endless, confusing, options. The new Blackbird Lite is a good example and I believe Shane when he says that it took a lot of work to preserve the characteristic feel of the Blackbird and that he wouldn't have proceeded if he couldn't guarantee that. It's something that his lineup has needed for some time, but I don't see him going any further than that.

 

[LRod]

The first razor ever that I've bought different plates has been the Greencult 2.0. I previously had a Karve CB level D but never tried any other plates. I think different plate options is a good idea for dialing down what you like. Adjustables (that I've tried) don't seem to be the best at accomplishing this. I know the Sailor is probably an exception but I've never owned one. As
@Mr. Shavington pointed out, something like the Overlander probably works for most but as an enthusiasts, I don't think we're the normal run of the mill shavers. So I'm happy to try out different plates on razors that offer them if need be. In the end, the plates that aren't in use can always be sold (as I will do with the one(s) I won't need on the Greencult).
Now I'm off to look at the Overlander, thanks to you guys!!
Brass or aluminum?

 

[Mr. Shavington]

It looks like we are turning Kim's journal into a discussion so apologies ahead of time. The one thing I have generally hated about adjustables is that all they do is move the safety bar up and down with the exception of one razor. Not only does this change the gap and possibly blade exposure, depending on the razor, it changes the shave angle. Depending on one's preference, this may be no problem, but it does fundamentally make change how the razor feels to different people using different numbers.

Now I am not trying to say there is anything wrong with this per say, but more generally about the point above moving one way or the other away from the original design with baseplate swap razors. Theoretically, they are superior in the sense that the baseplate can be made wider or anything else necessary to preserve the original geometry while accomplishing a different gap and exposure. But the question then becomes does this fit holistically with the original razor even if it is accomplished technically? Which I think is what Mr. Shavington is getting at.

The Razor Rock razors with A and AS(or + and ++) plates are a good example of how this might be getting carried too far; from what I have read, those plates provide diminishingly little improvement and only increase aggression. The plates that I have for my Tatara don't make huge changes and don't affect the fundamental characteristics of the razor, similar to their adjustable from what I have read. I don't have a lot of examples that I have personal experience with to reference, but it seems like maybe the compromise is that every plate being proposed needs to be vetted for whether it preserves the character of the original design or whether it merely gives customers endless, confusing, options. The new Blackbird Lite is a good example and I believe Shane when he says that it took a lot of work to preserve the characteristic feel of the Blackbird and that he wouldn't have proceeded if he couldn't guarantee that. It's something that his lineup has needed for some time, but I don't see him going any further than that.

Kim hasn’t ever commented about it, that I’ve seen, but I think this thread is sometimes kinda like hanging out at Kim’s house and having a chat with whoever else happens to be there. Like-minded friends, and there’s plenty of beer in the fridge. Anyway, he hasn’t kicked us out so far for all the off-topic digressions.

Somehow, for me at least, it’s a bit more comfortable to have this sort of discussion in here.

 

[Mr. Shavington]

The first razor ever that I've bought different plates has been the Greencult 2.0. I previously had a Karve CB level D but never tried any other plates. I think different plate options is a good idea for dialing down what you like. Adjustables (that I've tried) don't seem to be the best at accomplishing this. I know the Sailor is probably an exception but I've never owned one. As
@Mr. Shavington pointed out, something like the Overlander probably works for most but as an enthusiasts, I don't think we're the normal run of the mill shavers. So I'm happy to try out different plates on razors that offer them if need be. In the end, the plates that aren't in use can always be sold (as I will do with the one(s) I won't need on the Greencult).
Now I'm off to look at the Overlander, thanks to you guys!!
Brass or aluminum?

Kim doesn’t quite get along with his Overlander, so it isn’t universal, but after it came out it got a large following across all the forums.

For me it was the first truly mild razor that has enough efficiency to satisfy me. It’s still my first go-to razor if I want a completely smooth shave but I cannot risk getting any irritation or redness in the process. If I was shaving 30 minutes before my own wedding, I would confidently use this and still go for a completely BBS result. I can buff a stupid amount if I want, and the razor doesn’t punish me. Even other mild razors will still bite if you are silly with them, but this doesn’t, and it’s also much more efficient than they are.

Those who didn’t like the Overlander generally pointed to one of two reasons. One is that some people detect ‘drag’ from the top cap (I don’t). The other is that the Overlander’s efficiency seems to come particularly from the against-the-grain pass (due to the blade clamping?), so those who don’t shave against-the-grain don’t find it as efficient. That said, people who can’t normally shave safely against-the-grain maybe can with this.

Oh, and if it sounds interesting still then I vote brass over aluminum, and I would pick the new octagonal Karve handle.

 

[Phoenixkh]

I see this room exactly as @Mr. Shavington described.... A place to chat about anything in addition to my own journey. @Chan Eil Whiskers 's journal is the same way. I learned a lot from the people who commented on various things there. @Cal 's journal has also been a place of group discussions.

Feel free to discuss whatever here. Because B&B has been so beneficial to me, group discussions are not only welcome, consider them desirable. Here, there is no such thing as thread hijacking. I like the ebb and flow.

The Overlander.... with all of my top razors, I've gotten a wonderful down stroke on the first WTG pass. So far, even with the Kai, I've never had that with the Overlander. I don't know why. I approach it in the same way... handle parallel to my face... lift until the blade engages and proceed from there. Am I not going shallow enough? It has to be me....

 

[Mr. Shavington]

I see this room exactly as @Mr. Shavington described.... A place to chat about anything in addition to my own journey. @Chan Eil Whiskers 's journal is the same way. I learned a lot from the people who commented on various things there. @Cal 's journal has also been a place of group discussions.

Feel free to discuss whatever here. Because B&B has been so beneficial to me, group discussions are not only welcome, consider them desirable. Here, there is no such thing as thread hijacking. I like the ebb and flow.

The Overlander.... with all of my top razors, I've gotten a wonderful down stroke on the first WTG pass. So far, even with the Kai, I've never had that with the Overlander. I don't know why. I approach it in the same way... handle parallel to my face... lift until the blade engages and proceed from there. Am I not going shallow enough? It has to be me....

I use the Overlander at a neutral angle. Where I hear the blade loudest. Maybe try raising your elbow and going a bit shallower. Or find the blade as you do, find the blade from the top cap down, and then split the difference.

Everybody talked about the Overlander as being a steep shaving razor, but much of that was because the Karve CB favoured a very shallow angle, and it was something not everyone liked. Probably they exaggerate how steep the Overlander shaves, and I can’t shave steep with it - at least nothing like what I do with some other razors.

That said, if the angle isn’t what you enjoy using, then you have other razors you are happier with that you can use the way you naturally feel. The only reason I rate my Overlander so highly is what I said about it being virtually impossible to damage my skin whatever I do with it, while it is also efficient enough to satisfy me.

For me the ATT X1 slant is the razor I’m not getting the best out of so far. It feels a bit numb to me - I feel too much safety bar or cap and not enough blade, and the angle seems pretty narrow so I keep missing little bits of stubble. Like you said, it’s me not the razor, but maybe my style will never quite fit it.

 

[LRod]

Oh, and if it sounds interesting still then I vote brass over aluminum, and I would pick the new octagonal Karve handle.

Unfortunately that handle is an extra that needs to be purchased separately. It's $80 in brass as a standalone item. I see it as a little too much! That's about the same price as the whole razor with the standard handle!
At some point I looked at the Overlander and what never made me buy it was the handle. I do remember someone back then mentioning that it looks better in person though. In brass they don't offer a substitute but they do if you buy the razor in stainless or aluminum. You can get the Christopher Bradley handle in lieu of the standard Overlander handle for those two.

 

[LRod]

Feel free to discuss whatever here. Because B&B has been so beneficial to me, group discussions are not only welcome, consider them desirable. Here, there is no such thing as thread hijacking. I like the ebb and flow.

Glad this is the way you see it Kim!
If you go into my journal, my intro post #1 starts off with this:

"Well, I figured I might as well create one central thread instead of making a new thread every time (and having to keep track of them). I hope it's allowed!
And of course, everyone is welcome to add whatever they'd like!"

So yes, they should be a place to discuss everything (respectfully) and open to everyone.
How boring if it would only be about me!

 

[thombrogan]

Brass or aluminum?

Are stainless steel, copper, and bronze chopped liver?

If I did it all over again, aluminum with a 3” Knopf-Pommel handle (with orange cap, of course) would be my choice, but that only matters if you were buying your Overlander for me. Though if it doesn’t r0xx0rz your b0xx0rz, that might be a consideration in reselling.

But I digress. Please tell me more about the Green Cult 2.0 and its RAD-killer properties.

Sorry! I kid! I kid!

Kim doesn’t quite get along with his Overlander, so it isn’t universal, but after it came out it got a large following across all the forums.

I didn’t have success at first tries and know some of the barbed-wire whisker people don’t enjoy it.

those who don’t shave against-the-grain don’t find it as efficient.

This! I use mine entirely against-the-grain; often with more than intended pressure; and it’s a joy. I have razors that do it better, but not mindlessly so. And the clamping is weird because it’s not loose, but it’s not particularly vault-like, either. It’s “just right.”

Am I not going shallow enough?

You might not be. It’s not a steep-angled shaver. It’s the shallow side of neutral with a Nacet for me.

As better mentioned:

Everybody talked about the Overlander as being a steep shaving razor, but much of that was because the Karve CB favoured a very shallow angle, and it was something not everyone liked. Probably they exaggerate how steep the Overlander shaves, and I can’t shave steep with it - at least nothing like what I do with some other razors.

The list of razors I can effectively use steeper than the Overlander is frightening not only because the Karve Shaving site says the Overlander can be used steeper than the Christopher Bradley razors, but also because I’ve used so many danged razors.

 

[APBinNCA]

The list of razors I can effectively use steeper than the Overlander is frightening not only because the Karve Shaving site says the Overlander can be used steeper than the Christopher Bradley razors, but also because I’ve used so many danged razors.

This brings up another wrinkle in attempting to classify any razor as steep or shallow. Some clearly shave better with the handle more parallel to your face, some less. But also, some razors need to be "started" with the cap on the face and some with the safety bar. We have discussed it over a year ago, but some razors don't manage the transition between shallow and steep well and I believe the CB was cited as one of those razors. I can use the slightly steeper end of the Blackbirds angles, but in spite of it's exposure, I can transition from slightly steep to shallow in one of my trick shaving strokes. I don't like starting it on the guard bar for obvious reasons, but it is doable by many here who rate it highly. So I wonder if the Overlander is not only a more neutral shaver, but one that transitions so well that finding the angle is actually more difficult? It always looked like a DE version of my General which I can never accurately tell whether I am shaving steep or shallow without looking at the lather smear.

 

[Mr. Shavington]

This brings up another wrinkle in attempting to classify any razor as steep or shallow. Some clearly shave better with the handle more parallel to your face, some less. But also, some razors need to be "started" with the cap on the face and some with the safety bar. We have discussed it over a year ago, but some razors don't manage the transition between shallow and steep well and I believe the CB was cited as one of those razors. I can use the slightly steeper end of the Blackbirds angles, but in spite of it's exposure, I can transition from slightly steep to shallow in one of my trick shaving strokes. I don't like starting it on the guard bar for obvious reasons, but it is doable by many here who rate it highly. So I wonder if the Overlander is not only a more neutral shaver, but one that transitions so well that finding the angle is actually more difficult? It always looked like a DE version of my General which I can never accurately tell whether I am shaving steep or shallow without looking at the lather smear.

I’m not completely sure I understand the angle transition idea correctly, but the Overlander has very small positive blade exposure, so finding the angle can be subtle (though for me it doesn’t have a particularly narrow range of effecive angles compared to many razors). It seems to me that the best way to judge the angle is to listen to the sound of the blade and try to hit where the volume is loudest. That seems to be a reliable way to judge the angle on most low exposure razors, to my mind, and it works well for me with the Overlander.

 

[Phoenixkh]

I’m not completely sure I understand the angle transition idea correctly, but the Overlander has very small positive blade exposure, so finding the angle can be subtle (though for me it doesn’t have a particularly narrow a range of effecive angles compared to many razors). It seems to me that the best way to judge the angle is to listen to the sound of the blade and try to hit where the volume is loudest. That seems to be a reliable way to judge the angle on most low exposure razors, to my mind, and it works well for me with the Overlander.

I've started paying attention to the decibel levels as well. The Athena and the Elite were where I first noticed it. I mean, I've obviously heard the sound of whiskers being cut but those two brought it the front of my mind when I shave now. I'll give the Overlander one or two more shaves using that as a guide before I decide if I'm going to keep it or not.

 

[APBinNCA]

I’m not completely sure I understand the angle transition idea correctly

I'm not even sure anymore if it's a valid concept! It was an older discussion that I just remembered. The idea being that some very steep shaving razors don't make the smoothest transition while making a stroke from steep to shallow. Rather, you need to lift and place it cap first. I do know that on the flip side some shallower razors will rough up your skin pretty good if you let the angle get too steep, the Supply injectors being number one. I suspect this all has to do with the angle the blade is held at, I doubt an R41 would manage the transition smoothly.