Pete Rose discussion

[Lockback]

Charlie Hustle.
The man with the most hits in MLB history.
Unfortunately, his reputation was sullied by a gambling addiction. But that can't take away from his record on the field. I watched hundreds of game he played in and he never ceased to amaze me with his determination and grit.

 

[AshleyC]

I'll never believe that Pete ever bet against his own team.

 

[WThomas0814]

I was fine with the gambling. It was the young girls that bothered me.

 

[DrStrange]

I'll never believe that Pete ever bet against his own team.

I never heard of anybody saying that he did.

 

[jaro 101969]

I'll never believe that Pete ever bet against his own team.

I read in one of his interviews when he finally admitted to gambling he said he always bet on his teams games but he bet for them to win.. I mean that might not have been reality but thats what he said in an interview... It's sad he passed either way.

 

[DrStrange]

I read in one of his interviews when he finally admitted to gambling he said he always bet on his teams games but he bet for them to win.. I mean that might not have been reality but thats what he said in an interview... It's sad he passed either way.

I'm not sure that everybody understands exactly what his problem was.

"The rule says, if you bet, it doesn't say for or against. It's another device by Pete to try to excuse what he did,"
Dowd said.
"But when he bet, he was gone. He placed his financial interest ahead of the Reds, period."

OTL: Notebook shows Rose bet on MLB as player

New documents obtained by Outside the Lines indicate Rose bet extensively on baseball -- and on the Reds -- as he racked up the last hits of a record-smashing career in 1986.

www.espn.com

 

[AshleyC]

I'm not sure that everybody understands exactly what his problem was.

"The rule says, if you bet, it doesn't say for or against. It's another device by Pete to try to excuse what he did,"
Dowd said.
"But when he bet, he was gone. He placed his financial interest ahead of the Reds, period."

OTL: Notebook shows Rose bet on MLB as player

New documents obtained by Outside the Lines indicate Rose bet extensively on baseball -- and on the Reds -- as he racked up the last hits of a record-smashing career in 1986.

www.espn.com

I think what we're saying is, yes, we know he broke the rules. We are also saying we don't believe he bet against his team and then started throwing games in order to win those bets.

 

[jaro 101969]

I'm not sure that everybody understands exactly what his problem was.

"The rule says, if you bet, it doesn't say for or against. It's another device by Pete to try to excuse what he did,"
Dowd said.
"But when he bet, he was gone. He placed his financial interest ahead of the Reds, period."

OTL: Notebook shows Rose bet on MLB as player

New documents obtained by Outside the Lines indicate Rose bet extensively on baseball -- and on the Reds -- as he racked up the last hits of a record-smashing career in 1986.

www.espn.com

That's true, and he suffered the consequences for it. I don't think there should be gambling either especially by players or coaches but my reply was because it said that he had bet against his team and he didn't bet against his team that was the only clarification I was making. Yes he shouldn't have done it but he did but now it's like a moot point as he's not here anymore..

 

[DrStrange]

I think what we're saying is, yes, we know he broke the rules. We are also saying we don't believe he bet against his team and then started throwing games in order to win those bets.

But,
saying that you don't believe that he bet against his team
suggests that he was accused of betting against his team
and he never was.

It's like:
We may never know what the truth really is
but I personally don't believe that Winston Churchill
ever worked for Stalin as a spy against England.
That would show my faith in the old Prime Minister
if he had been accused,
but without such an accusation
it's just nonsense.

 

[Mojo88]

I'll never believe that Pete ever bet against his own team.

I was fortunate enough to see the Big Red Machine play and Pete was a huge part of their success. He played with more determination than anyone I have ever seen. I don’t think it would have been in his character to bet that the Reds would lose. For me finding he had bet was a sad ending to an otherwise great career. Listening to Marty Brennaman and Joe Nuxhall call those Red’s games will always be a fond memory for me. On those late night games I would take a transistor radio and put it under my pillow. I still can hear Joe Nuxall say, “This is the Ol left hander, Rounding third and heading for home.”

 

[brucered]

He was a great baseball player who made some very poor personal and professional decisions.

From betting on games he was involved in (doesn't matter for of against) and admitted sex with a 16y old while he was married and how he handled that, then throw in some federal tax evasion charges.

The admitted and proven gambling is an automatic no entry into the HOF, no matter how good a player he was or how many hits he had. So that discussion shouldn't even be a discussion.

 

[DesertIguana]

Pete should have been in Baseball Hall of Fame, the time has come to vote Pete in.

 

[brucered]

Pete should have been in Baseball Hall of Fame, the time has come to vote Pete in.

Why? Is there a time frame after you violate one of the rules that they are to excuse it?

Wasn't part of his admitting guilty to gambling that he would never be allowed in?

"On August 24, 1989, Rose voluntarily accepted a permanent place on baseball's ineligible list. He accepted that there was a factual reason for the ban.'

 

[DesertIguana]

IMHO the Baseball Hall of Fame is to recognize those players that did great thing on the field.

 

[AshleyC]

I was fortunate enough to see the Big Red Machine play and Pete was a huge part of their success. He played with more determination than anyone I have ever seen. I don’t think it would have been in his character to bet that the Reds would lose. For me finding he had bet was a sad ending to an otherwise great career. Listening to Marty Brennaman and Joe Nuxhall call those Red’s games will always be a fond memory for me. On those late night games I would take a transistor radio and put it under my pillow. I still can hear Joe Nuxall say, “This is the Ol left hander, Rounding third and heading for home.”

I was born in 1973, so I wasn't old enough to know the Big Red Machine. But Pete Rose, Johnny Bench, Joe Morgan and Jose Concepcion are still household names in Southwestern Ohio.

 

[Mojo88]

I was born in 1973, so I wasn't old enough to know the Big Red Machine. But Pete Rose, Johnny Bench, Joe Morgan and Jose Concepcion are still household names in Southwestern Ohio.

I grew up in Columbus and most everyone had the following things in that brown paneling covered basement: Pictures of the Reds World Series team and pictures of Ohio State football. In addition to that there was always a Buckeye necklace and championship hat. Every Saturday required you to wear Buckeye gear and it’s still that way when we visit the area.

 

[AshleyC]

I've remodeled a few hundred basements in Columbus and I know exactly of what you speak.

 

[Doc4]

I'm not sure that everybody understands exactly what his problem was.

"The rule says, if you bet, it doesn't say for or against. It's another device by Pete to try to excuse what he did,"
Dowd said.
"But when he bet, he was gone. He placed his financial interest ahead of the Reds, period."

I think what we're saying is, yes, we know he broke the rules. We are also saying we don't believe he bet against his team and then started throwing games in order to win those bets.

For me, it boils down to "he broke the rule, so he doesn't get into the HOF" ... "yeah, but it's a stupid rule".

I see a significant difference ... and I think a lot of others do too ... between Pete Rose betting for his team to win on the one hand, and him betting for it to lose on the other. Every professional ballplayer has a financial stake in his own performance and the performance of the team being as good as possible.

Play good => team do good => get big contract.
Play bad => team do bad => no contract.

A lot of us don't really see a problem with Rose putting a bit of icing on that cake. Maybe it's time for MLB to say "yeah, it was the rule, but it's a bit of a messed up rule so we ought to change it". It wouldn't be the first time they changed a messed up rule.

 

[Lockback]

I grew up in Columbus and most everyone had the following things in that brown paneling covered basement: Pictures of the Reds World Series team and pictures of Ohio State football. In addition to that there was always a Buckeye necklace and championship hat. Every Saturday required you to wear Buckeye gear and it’s still that way when we visit the area.

I grew up in the area and still live here. And you got it right.

 

[brucered]

For me, it boils down to "he broke the rule, so he doesn't get into the HOF" ... "yeah, but it's a stupid rule".

I see a significant difference ... and I think a lot of others do too ... between Pete Rose betting for his team to win on the one hand, and him betting for it to lose on the other. Every professional ballplayer has a financial stake in his own performance and the performance of the team being as good as possible.

Play good => team do good => get big contract.
Play bad => team do bad => no contract.

A lot of us don't really see a problem with Rose putting a bit of icing on that cake. Maybe it's time for MLB to say "yeah, it was the rule, but it's a bit of a messed up rule so we ought to change it". It wouldn't be the first time they changed a messed up rule.

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Was there any chance, he discussed bets with the opposing team (or a player), who were out of the playoffs picture? They agree on every 3rd pitch to Rose will be a fastball down low or all curve balls if no one on base, etc and you get a 20% cut?

I agree, the rules at the time were broken and that's what it's based on so he's not going in. Plus, he made an agreement with MLB to never be put in and they would drop or stop the investigation any further (something to that effect). If they investigated further, maybe they find out more. I think he cut the deal to avoid further charges, maybe even criminal and/or having to name some "wise guys" and pay the price.

Baseball Almanac - Pete Rose / A. Bartlett Giamatti Agreement

Baseball Almanac presents the complete text and detailed information about the Pete Rose / A. Bartlett Giamatti Agreement on banishment.

www.baseball-almanac.com