Personna blades

[RayClem]

I stated my reasons, and I showed evidence on other threads. If I'm being "aggressively combative", your reasons for adding to that and provoking it further are unclear to me when you don't have any real evidence to add to the discussion.

Simply question; does anyone have any evidence that the plant has actually closed? Where's RayClem? He keeps insisting it has.

If it doesn't matter, than why continue to state it as a fact, or excuse misinformation?

I can find no conclusive information that indicated whether the Edgewell plant in Nazareth, Israel is closed or continues to operate. If you have conclusive evidence that the plant is still in operation, please provide that to us.

These are the facts I have been able to ascertain:

1. In their 2018 annual report, they indicated their intention to close the Nazareth plant as part of their cost saving plan. This announcement was made before their agreement in 2019 to merge with Harry's. Thus, the failure to consummate the merger with Harry's should not have had any impact upon the closure of the plant. I could not find any information concerning the Nazareth plant in the 2019 annual report.

2. Their current web site indicates that they still have own property in Nazareth. The only address listed is a PO Box, not a physical address. I have found nothing to indicate whether this facility is closed, or is operating at full or partial capacity.

3. I have used, and others have reported using, Personna platinum chrome blades manufactured in Germany. These are identical to the blades formerly manufactured in Israel as far I can determine. Others seem to agree these are the same blades. Thus, there are several possibilities, none of which I can find information to substantiate or deny:

a. The blades may have been produced in Israel, but shipped to Germany for packaging. While this may be possible, since the Israeli plant had its own packaging equipment, this seems unlikely.
b. Edgewell could have purchased and installed new production equipment at the German manufacturing location. However, I would consider this to be highly unlikely considering the competition in the razor blade market. There would be little justification for increasing capacity, especially at a time they are trying to consolidate to reduce costs.
c. Some production equipment from the Israeli plant may have been relocated to Germany such that the Personna Platinum blades may now be produced in both locations. It is quite common for companies to relocate one production line at a time to avoid disruption of the production process. I have seen this many times in other manufacturing operations. Thus, I would consider this to be a likely scenario.
d. The transfer of the production equipment from the Israeli plant to the plant in Germany may have been completed and the Israeli plant may have been closed as part of the consolidation plan published by Edgewell.
I have not been able to find any information indicating that Edgewell reversed its decision to close the plant. However, it is also possible that the facility is being used as a warehouse/distribution center.

Like I said, information concerning the status of the Israeli plant is woefully lacking. I cannot find a physical address of the plant to view the facility on Google Earth looking for evidence of activity at the plant, such as cars parked nearby.

The only thing I am sure of is that Personna Platinum Chrome blade made in Germany are now being sold into the USA marketplace. These German blades appear to be the same as the Israeli blades. I do not care where they are made as long as the quality does not deteriorate. I do not have an anti-Israel bias, so I would have gladly kept buying Israeli Reds.

 

[MisfitWy23]

If you have conclusive evidence that the plant is still in operation, please provide that to us.

Did you read this thread here?!

Israeli made blades

Is there a good explanation somewhere (accurate for 2020) of what's what regarding all the Israeli blades and Personnas and if there is any difference between them. I have searched this online but got confused since it sounds like things have changed at some point in time, or maybe people just...

www.badgerandblade.com

Good night! The burden of proof is generally on the one who makes statements as if they are a fact.

Personna Israeli Reds (Red Packaging)

I meant that Personna platinum will put any Gillette made blade into the shame. i didn’t say best among Gillette blades, did I. I am not quite sure what you meant here. Personna Israeli reds (in either the red or blue packaging) are made by Personna which is a division of Edgewell Personal...

www.badgerandblade.com

If you have conclusive evidence that the plant has closed, please provide that to us.

If you can't do that, I would suggest that you qualify your statements to differentiate your belief or understanding from fact.

Please note that I am not the one making claims of fact.

 

[RayClem]

After additional searching, I came across some shipping manifests indicating that the Israeli plant shipped some raw materials like packaging materials from Israel to the Accu Tech Blades facility in Verona VA. Thus, there is at least minimal activity going on at the plant. That is why the plant still shows up as an active facility on the Edgewell web site. However, that still does not provide conclusive evidence that the plant is still manufacturing razor blades. It can take many months for a plant to be completely cleared of raw materials, finished product, and manufacturing equipment and supplies after it ceases operations.

Quoting other Badger and Blade threads as proof the facility is operational is not conclusive evidence, especially when those threads provide contradictory evidence.

I do not know whether the Israeli plant is still producing any razor blades. As long as the Personna blades coming out of the plant in Germany are of high quality (and they appear to be), I really don't care whether the Israeli facility is operational or not.

 

[MisfitWy23]

After additional searching, I came across some shipping manifests indicating that the Israeli plant shipped some raw materials like packaging materials from Israel to the Accu Tech Blades facility in Verona VA. Thus, there is at least minimal activity going on at the plant. That is why the plant still shows up as an active facility on the Edgewell web site. However, that still does not provide conclusive evidence that the plant is still manufacturing razor blades. It can take many months for a plant to be completely cleared of raw materials, finished product, and manufacturing equipment and supplies after it ceases operations.

Quoting other Badger and Blade threads as proof the facility is operational is not conclusive evidence, especially when those threads provide contradictory evidence.

I do not know whether the Israeli plant is still producing any razor blades. As long as the Personna blades coming out of the plant in Germany are of high quality (and they appear to be), I really don't care whether the Israeli facility is operational or not.

Yes. And I also attempted to bring it to your attention that as recently as March, 25 tons of razor blades (apparently not just the raw materials) were sent from Israel to the US by Personna:

So I just did a simple search for "personna nazareth" and quickly found a Bill of Lading for approximately 25 tons of razor blades shipped by Personna International Israel addressed in Nazareth, and loaded in a ship in Haifa that arrived at port in Savannah, GA less than a week ago. (Personna International Israel Ltd., Hayotzer Street, Building No. 3, Ziporit Industrial Zone, Nazareth Illit, Israel, 17890 | Supplier Report — Panjiva - https://panjiva.com/Personna-International-Israel-Ltd/1632428). Another website shows that the ship did in fact arrive at Savannah, GA on the 3rd. (MSC BILBAO, Container Ship - Details and current position - IMO 9301495 MMSI 255805571 - VesselFinder - https://www.vesselfinder.com/vessels/MSC-BILBAO-IMO-9301495-MMSI-255805571)

As I linked to in previous posts. Yet you continued to state it as a fact that the plant had closed based on no conclusive evidence.

If I'm "aggressively combative", I guess it's because I remember a time when a man's word was supposed to mean something (waaay back before the Internet). Of course men were often mistaken, but they would generally try to own up to those mistakes when the facts were called to their attention. I gave evidence the plant was still open, but never stated it as a fact. Yet people continue to ask me to show evidence to back up what I say, even though I already have, while those stating something as a fact seem to think they don't have the same burden of proof. At least you now admit you don't know if the plant is still open, even if you don't take responsibility for what you've been stating in the past.

 

[MisfitWy23]

Quoting other Badger and Blade threads as proof the facility is operational is not conclusive evidence, especially when those threads provide contradictory evidence.

Also note that I did not just quote other B&B threads, but the results of my own search, and as I recall, I never stated it as "proof". While on the other hand you continued to state the closing of the plant as a fact.

As for the contradictory evidence, you should have weighed that out for yourself.

I do not know whether the Israeli plant is still producing any razor blades. As long as the Personna blades coming out of the plant in Germany are of high quality (and they appear to be), I really don't care whether the Israeli facility is operational or not.

If you don't know, why keep stating that it isn't?

If it doesn't matter, why keep saying it's closed?

I've never used a blade from the Gillette factory in Russia, so I guess I could state it as a fact that it doesn't exist because it doesn't matter to me?

 

[Hachet]

I get about 30 to 40 shaves out of a Personna Platinum. Excellent blades.

 

[SirPaulGerman]

Where do you buy Personnas from Germany ?

 

[RayClem]

Yes. And I also attempted to bring it to your attention that as recently as March, 25 tons of razor blades (apparently not just the raw materials) were sent from Israel to the US by Personna:
As I linked to in previous posts. Yet you continued to state it as a fact that the plant had closed based on no conclusive evidence.

If I'm "aggressively combative", I guess it's because I remember a time when a man's word was supposed to mean something (waaay back before the Internet). Of course men were often mistaken, but they would generally try to own up to those mistakes when the facts were called to their attention. I gave evidence the plant was still open, but never stated it as a fact. Yet people continue to ask me to show evidence to back up what I say, even though I already have, while those stating something as a fact seem to think they don't have the same burden of proof. At least you now admit you don't know if the plant is still open, even if you don't take responsibility for what you've been stating in the past.

Just because a container load of product was shipped from Israel to Savannah, does not mean that this was product made in recent months. This may well have been product that was produced last year but was still in inventory at the plant. If your contention is that outbound shipping operations means the plant is still open, then I agree with that contention. However, most people only consider a plant to be open if it is actively producing product and plans to continue doing so. An occasional shipment from the plant is not evidence of ongoing manufacturing activity.

If the Israeli plant continues to make product, I will gladly purchase their product. If the manufacturing moves to Germany, I will gladly purchase product made there. I do not care where it is made. Even though i live in the USA and spent half of my life in Virginia, I still prefer the Israeli product to the product made in Verona VA, although some might prefer the USA product.

 

[ShaverAZ]

For me, it depends on the combo of the razor and blade. On some razors, with a Feather, I can get only two decent shaves. With the AS D2 I can get 6+ shaves. With Personna Labs or Personna Med Prep blades I can get from 5 to 10 shaves depending on the razor.

I have about the same blade longevity & also based on the razor (and soap). Generlly I shave with blade until it either begins to get tuggy, or produces irritation, often 2-7 shaves, although I did have a Lord Platinum last 31 quality shaves - a feat I've never been able to duplicate.

 

[ShaverAZ]

Yes. And I also attempted to bring it to your attention that as recently as March, 25 tons of razor blades (apparently not just the raw materials) were sent from Israel to the US by Personna:
As I linked to in previous posts. Yet you continued to state it as a fact that the plant had closed based on no conclusive evidence.

If I'm "aggressively combative", I guess it's because I remember a time when a man's word was supposed to mean something (waaay back before the Internet). Of course men were often mistaken, but they would generally try to own up to those mistakes when the facts were called to their attention. I gave evidence the plant was still open, but never stated it as a fact. Yet people continue to ask me to show evidence to back up what I say, even though I already have, while those stating something as a fact seem to think they don't have the same burden of proof. At least you now admit you don't know if the plant is still open, even if you don't take responsibility for what you've been stating in the past.

IMO, product measured in units shipped indicated items being currently produced for sale. Product expressed in tonnage would seem to me to indicate a facility packing up & moving inventory prior to closing. Having worked in manufacturing, this is what I've observed.

 

[ivan_101]

Comparing Dorcos to Personnas... Seriously?

 

[RayClem]

Comparing Dorcos to Personnas... Seriously?

I do not know which post you are referencing, but I find that Dorco Prime Platinum STP301 are as good as Personna Israeli Reds. As someone who likes very sharp blades to tackle my tough beard and very smooth blades to satisfy my sensitive face, I find the Dorco Primes are one of my favorite blades, along with Israeli Reds.

Since Dorco Primes work so well for me, I have no plan to try the other Dorco blades.

 

[ivan_101]

I was referencing the first post of this thread where the original poster says he gets more shaves out of a Personna compared to Dorco.
Never tried the Dorco Prime blades. But I have heavy tough beard and the Red Personnas give me BBS only in very aggressive razors. My point being they are not "very sharp" in my book. Far sharper blades out there.