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Personal Defense Ammo?

Concur re what your weapons like.

Did STI provide any guidance

I know that the USMS spec Staccato runs well on Hornady Critical Defense having shot 150 rounds with in it in a pistol that has 3500 rounds with no issues as well.

I have reached out them but I think the whole world is at SHOT show right now...
If I had a gun that wouldn't reliably function with any quality ammo, I simply wouldn't carry it....Even, if you have one that you think functions 100%, you need to do malfunction drills, though.
Agree 100%. Tap, rack, bang drills are crucial!
 
If I had a gun that wouldn't reliably function with any quality ammo, I simply wouldn't carry it....Even, if you have one that you think functions 100%, you need to do malfunction drills, though.
+1. If people want to say that their pistol is every bit as reliable as a Glock, then their pistol should run reliably with all quality manufactured ammo just like a Glock.

Ain’t none of this, “need to find which brand” stuff...
 
+1. If people want to say that their pistol is every bit as reliable as a Glock, then their pistol should run reliably with all quality manufactured ammo just like a Glock.

Ain’t none of this, “need to find which brand” stuff...
Fair and valid point but... My mother's Glock 19 (Going way back as in the case had the "Pistol of the Year" sticker on it circa 1989) would not shoot anything reliably for the first 500 rounds. Even Winchester hardball would have a FTF every 3 rounds or so until it was broken in a bit. I shot the crap out of that pistol and now, 30 years later, it purrs like a kitten so...
 
So quick update and I know it shouldn't affect feeding or make a difference but I've done some measuring and I find this, as a past reloader, a tad interesting and a bit telling... P.S.SAMMI OACL is 1.169"
Sellier and Beloit 115gr Hardnose is 1.155" OACL
CCI Blazer Brass 115gr Hardnose is 1.148" OACL
Federal HST 150gr Micro JHP is 1.123" OACL
And the Sig V-Crown 124g JHP? 1.060" OACL +/- .002 across all 50 rounds in the box. I think this is the cause of my issue. Not sure it should be but .060" is pretty big.
Oh, and the OACL of Speer Gold Dot 124gr according to them? 1.120" Remington 124gr Golden Saber? 1.120"/1.125". The test ammo arrives tomorrow so we shall see what comes of it!
 
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Speer gold dot 124, I do like Sig Vcrown 124, but now stay away from Hornady....all of those w the polymer thing in the hollow cavity. My buddy had some (6m) in his gun.....at the range it did not fire x 2 in his "guchi gun" so I said...let me fire it in my glock....nothing....primer was at this point almost perforated.... and that was the last ever I carry those...., used to have them in 135 and +P. Extreme defense look nice.... but $$$
 

nortac

Contributor
So quick update and I know it shouldn't affect feeding or make a difference but I've done some measuring and I find this, as a past reloader, a tad interesting and a bit telling... P.S.SAMMI OACL is 1.169"
Sellier and Beloit 115gr Hardnose is 1.155" OACL
CCI Blazer Brass 115gr Hardnose is 1.148" OACL
Federal HST 150gr Micro JHP is 1.123" OACL
And the Sig V-Crown 124g JHP? 1.060" OACL +/- .002 across all 50 rounds in the box. I think this is the cause of my issue. Not sure it should be but .060" is pretty big.
Oh, and the OACL of Speer Gold Dot 124gr according to them? 1.120" Remington 124gr Golden Saber? 1.120"/1.125". The test ammo arrives tomorrow so we shall see what comes of it!
So let me get this right, unless there is a typo in your measurements, the SIG V-Crown is the shortest at 1.060? Or did you mean 1.160? And that is giving feeding problems? My SIG P365 seems ammo sensitive, my most recent reloads were right at or just a couple thou +/- SAAMI Max COAL. About 10% of those would not feed, but the Glock will eat them just fine. So even if the V-Crowns were 1.160, that's still 0.009 under max.( My Midway case gage measures 1.168) My picky P365 ate the V-Crowns just fine. Go figure, each gun is different.
 
@nortac Good morning, sir! :) No typo. The V-Crowns come in at 1.060" Again, I concede that a short round shouldn't cause an issue but I have not had any problems with the V-Crowns in the single stack so I wonder if the way they can stack in a double stack mag causes the issue? I have 150 rounds to play with this weekend and I will see what performs the best! I've been a long time fan of HydraShoks and Gold Dots seem to be the bell of the ball but my only experience with them has been with .357 Sig in a P229.

P.S. Wait... Your Sig produced handgun worked just fine with Sig produced ammo? That's weird... :D Just pickin', man! If they work that's great and I'll find a flawless defense round for STI I'm sure! I need to find out what the U.S. Marshall S.O.Gs and my local SWAT members are using in their Stacattos.
 
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I’m an HST guy myself. They work.

EDIT - good luck by the way. It’s a good thing you’re trying out an assortment. I still have boxes of partially used 9mm from my test days. Cost me a fortune. The gun‘s always the cheapest part.
Damn straight. On a defense carry, both gun and ammo had better be flawless operators with everything. If it's finicky in the least, I'm not trusting my life to it.
 
Fan of Speer Gold Dot here too.

Also my most used bullet for reloading. I was amazed at the improved consistancy and tightening of groups that reloading my own provided.

Do any of you have Black Talons on hand still? (I should re-read the thread and see if they were mentioned since my last view.)
 
This has been a very interesting and educational read. Even possibly eye opening. So from what I have gathered in the last few posts,

1. Glock has made sure their pistols tolerances will accept any ammo?

2. High end 1911’s manufactures like to make their pistols tolerances really tight, but they don’t like to tell us what brand consistently shoots in their pistol? And then put the burden on the buyer to find out? Doesn’t seem right to me? Spend a lot of money on their gun and now have to spend a lot of money to find what does and doesn’t work?

3. Sig is making polymer pistols with tolerances that only accepts their ammo the best? Are they trying to horde the market with their products? Because if they are, they are going about it wrong if they want their guns to only shoot their ammo.
 
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Fair and valid point but... My mother's Glock 19 (Going way back as in the case had the "Pistol of the Year" sticker on it circa 1989) would not shoot anything reliably for the first 500 rounds. Even Winchester hardball would have a FTF every 3 rounds or so until it was broken in a bit. I shot the crap out of that pistol and now, 30 years later, it purrs like a kitten so...
I wonder if your mom’s Glock was the norm or an anomaly? :)
 
This has been a very interesting and educational read. Even possibly eye opening. So from what I have gathered in the last few posts,

1. Glock has made sure their pistols tolerances will accept any ammo?

2. High end 1911’s manufactures like to make their pistols tolerances really tight, but they don’t like to tell us what brand consistently shoots in their pistol? And then put the burden on the buyer to find out? Doesn’t seem right to me? Spend a lot of money on their gun and now have to spend a lot of money to find what does and doesn’t work?

3. Sig is making polymer pistols with tolerances that only accepts their ammo the best? Are they trying to horde the market with their products?
1. I would say that is an accurate assumption sir!
2. I cannot confirm that to be the case… As I said I am pretty sure everyone is at shot show right now so they may just not have gotten back to me yet. All my STI customer experiences have been stellar! And I’m sure I will get a good answer in short order. Maybe… :D
3. That was simply a lighthearted, loving, jab at Nortac. Sig ammo works good in Sig pistols? Who da thunk it? :D I do honestly think that the length of that particular cartridge was giving me some issue because the STI mags are 9 mm/38 supers. So they can run some really long cartridges and short stuff might cause problems… I had an SVI racegun in 40 Smith & Wesson and I was warned when I bought it to make sure I loaded the cartridge lengths to the same as .45 ACP for best reliability.
Lastly I’ve got no complaints about burning up some some personal defense ammo to see what performs best. Even if they all fed I’d want the one that offered the tightest groups and the least recoil out of said platform. It’ll be a fun experiment! :)
 
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This has been a very interesting and educational read. Even possibly eye opening. So from what I have gathered in the last few posts,

1. Glock has made sure their pistols tolerances will accept any ammo?

2. High end 1911’s manufactures like to make their pistols tolerances really tight, but they don’t like to tell us what brand consistently shoots in their pistol? And then put the burden on the buyer to find out? Doesn’t seem right to me? Spend a lot of money on their gun and now have to spend a lot of money to find what does and doesn’t work?

3. Sig is making polymer pistols with tolerances that only accepts their ammo the best? Are they trying to horde the market with their products?
Well ... I don't know about all of that. A full-size P220 is still near the top of the heap as far as .45 ACP LEO carries go. It's a long-proven design (even the Exeter-made ones). And it fires just about anything with perfect dependability, and tremendous accuracy.

If I could only get off one round to save my life, I'd want a Sig P220 in my hands.

I only prefer HST because of its long-standing field reputation, and because I never saw any need to change from it once I started using it. If someone gave me a box of Gold Dot for free, I'd be fine with that in it, too.

I can't speak to the newer plastic Sigs and whether they are ammo finicky. But a P220 is not.
 
Good post NN, and that STI of yours Is an absolute awesome pistol, no doubt about it.

It seems to me back in the day lots of 1911 owners would get throat jobs on pistols to help them run more reliably with different brands of ammo?
 
Well ... I don't know about all of that. A full-size P220 is still near the top of the heap as far as .45 ACP LEO carries go. It's a long-proven design (even the Exeter-made ones). And it fires just about anything with perfect dependability, and tremendous accuracy.

If I could only get off one round to save my life, I'd want a Sig P220 in my hands.

I only prefer HST because of its long-standing field reputation, and because I never saw any need to change from it once I started using it. If someone gave me a box of Gold Dot for free, I'd be fine with that in it, too.

I can't speak to the newer plastic Sigs and whether they are ammo finicky. But a P220 is not.
Did you happen to gloss over my post where I Said “Sigs new polymer pistols”?? Not their older hammer designs? I’m sure your Sig 220 is good to go.
 
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The general rule of thumb that I grew up “knowing” was, the tighter the tolerances, the higher the accuracy but the more finicky the gun was with respect to ammo. If you’ve ever shot Russian ammo, you know why the AK is so loose. Or did the ammo follow the gun manufacturers? ARs during Nam we’re way too tight for what they were using and where.

Either way, there is always some voodoo involved because a bullets metplant can make a huge difference too.

it’s fun to speculate, but I don’t know if we are ready to make any conclusions yet are we?
 
Absolutely agree @Earcutter. It’s like any modern product which manufactures are looking to make money.

1. I know a guy with a standard 87’ Tacoma with 279K on it. He swears the only thing he has ever replaced on it is a starter. Not a clutch plate, wire harness or nothing. Toyota built their company on that kind of reliability, but will new Tacoma’s do this? They want you to buy another vehicle when your note is done.

2. Ballistic vests are only good for 5 years, says so right on the vest. But I’ve shot vests over 20 years old and it works.

So my thinking is, sooner or later, pistol manufacturers will figure out a way to use only their guns with their ammo? This makes a good point for owning older pistols as many here do and have said. :)
 
Absolutely agree @Earcutter. It’s like any modern product which manufactures are looking to make money.

1. I know a guy with a standard 87’ Tacoma with 279K on it. He swears the only thing he has ever replaced on it is a starter. Not a clutch plate, wire harness or nothing. Toyota built their company on that kind of reliability, but will new Tacoma’s do this? They want you to buy another vehicle when your note is done.

2. Ballistic vests are only good for 5 years, says so right on the vest. But I’ve shot vests over 20 years old and it works.

So my thinking is, sooner or later, pistol manufacturers will figure out a way to use only their guns with their ammo? This makes a good point for owning older pistols as many here do and have said. :)
I see what you’re saying, and it’s a great idea, but something about that rings, “poor form.” And we know it is poor form because why not then just advertise this fact? “Only works with our ammo.” “Works best with SIG ammo.” Whatever. You know what I mean. I mean useless ammo performance reflects poorly on a gun.

The fact is, I buy Glocks because they are pigs and eat just about anything reliably. I carry a 43 that has no more rounds than a snub and isn’t exactly a laser because I know it’s a pig and it’ll go bang. And if I’m in some po-dunk town, and I’m forced to buy ammo locally, I’m pretty confident it’ll go bang too.

If that ever changed, I’d pack a 1911 or a snub and never look back. I think most of us wood... in spite of the fact we’ll probably never need to buy defense ammo in nowhereland.

Its a great idea for a manufacturer when it makes something that uses proprietary anything - but they’d be out of luck getting my bucks. And I’d badmouth em to boot lol.
 
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