Pepper Spray

[Claudel Xerxes]

I don't know why, until now, I haven't seriously considered getting pepper spray for a situation where a threat needs to be delt with in a non-lethal manner. One could imagine that most sprays are not created equal. Any recommendations on what type or brand I should think about getting?

 

[Bryan_D]

For what it is worth...
Consumer pepper spray is not as strong as what law enforcement carries (although it has been a while since I was a police officer). It will do the job if needed. From my understanding Sabre makes a decent product, I have no experience with it. I would read up on, a simple Google search, the different types of spray. According to Pew Pew Tactical, CN and CS are military produced irritants that work by causing pain. OC, or pepper spray, is an inflammatory that not only causes pain but also causes inflammation of the mucous membranes around the face, making it difficult and painful to breathe or open the eyes. To me, the most important thing to remember... Whatever you use can always be used against you. Meaning, if you carry it be ready to use it. This product is only meant to buy you time to getaway. I hope that helps somewhat. 4 Best Pepper Spray for Self-Defense [Tested + Video] - Pew Pew Tactical - https://www.pewpewtactical.com/best-pepper-spray/:

 

[simon1]

Pepper spray is some good stuff. I believe the Punch brand we used was 5% capsicum...I'd have to dig out my old can. It works very well...99.9% of the time. I like the cone spray pattern (like a hair spray pattern) better than the stream or foam gel. It spreads out better so if you miss a small target they will get the fog over them. The wind messes with the cone pattern more though. OC doesn't need the area decontaminated like the old "tear gas" sprays did, it will naturally decompose.

Spray Patterns | Aerko International

When we had to qual. with it one of my buddies was a 6' 3", 250 pound ex-Marine that was going to try to just take it and still operate. He lasted about 4 seconds.

We had the Punch brand, but last I got was Sabre brand that Dallas was issued, but they take the lowest bid and I've never used that brand. I think the po-lice strength is available to civilians now, but there are the Wallyworld brands and stuff that are pretty useless.

Last we got was Punch II, but they make a Punch III now.

https://www.amazon.com/Punch-Pepper-Spray-Flip-Stream/dp/B071H241T1

Like I said, never had to use Sabre, and the can I have is a stream pattern. You need to check it to make sure it sprays and replace the can from time to time.

SABRE

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www.sabrered.com

@OkieStubble and some others should be chiming in soon.

 

[Jim99]

I picked up a few canisters of pepper spray last year just in case. How long do they last just sitting around?

 

[simon1]

I picked up a few canisters of pepper spray last year just in case. How long do they last just sitting around?

It varies. I just checked the Sabre one I picked up in Dallas about three years ago and it still worked. The old Punch cans have lost their go juice years ago. Check them once a year or so. The propellant is what will go first.

I do love the way they work...I've taken down a rather large, young, football player with just a micro second squirt surgically implanted in the corner of the left eye. He was begging for "No more!".

 

[oc_in_fw]

Good defense for dogs. I would hate to kill a dog just because their owner is an idiot and can’t keep them fenced. Hint to the idiots along a path that I walk- a four foot high fence won’t keep a big dog in.

 

[Ad Astra]

After a bear encounter, I googled and bought the best rated bear spray ... CO2-powered sonic grenades (noisemakers) too.

Options are good.

AA

 

[ColtRevolver]

I carried Punch II.

 

[frozenoak]

I don't have a CCW so I carry bear spray made by Counter Assault purchased at REI about 4 years ago. It's only 2% capsaicin but the one time I needed it, it worked. However, I now have a civil case leveled against me because I used a bear spray vs pepper spray. My lawyer says it's a clean cut case, and it'll be in my favor, but I'm now looking into getting my CCW. My truck is not for sale, and certainly not for free.

Regards,
Dale

 

[nortac]

The strength of pepper spray is most accurately measured in Scoville Heat Units and IIRC, you want at least 2 million SCUs.

Scoville scale - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[ChiefHA]

The best thing to remember about all of these less-lethal options CN,CS,OC is there are people out there that can tolerate the effects and still function. Part of my firearms training was to be doused with OC then be attacked by an aggressor and retain possession of my handgun (lots of fun). I also had an instructor at FLETC that would pop CN and CS in the gas house without a gas mask and run the class through donning and doffing drills. He would stand there normally while we were snotting and slobbering. Just remember like all self defense options, use them to give your self the ability to remove yourself from the situation if possible.

 

[dojpros]

Sabre and Def-Tech are the brands I see most often with the agent/officers I work with.

I change my spray out annually- the week of my birthday along with batteries in critical gear etc. whether it is really needed or not. Get a sharpie and write it on the spray canister etc.

 

[CurtisB81]

People that are on drugs or are use to Chile peppers, it will not work..Dogs and bears aren’t..

 

[xiletero]

Mace has mixture, pepper + tear gas+color. There are also sprays and gels....

 

[oc_in_fw]

People that are on drugs or are use to Chile peppers, it will not work..Dogs and bears aren’t..

That’s the main reason I carry it. I really don’t want to shoot a dog if I don’t have to.

 

[OkieStubble]

@OkieStubble and some others should be chiming in soon.

I apologize for being late to this thread. It's been really busy at work as of late. You can find the same concentrations and strength levels in civilian use OC canisters and brands as you can in the ones that have been specified for carry for LE. In fact, our officers are issued Sabre Red and if I'm not mistaken, the very same can be purchased privately by civilians.

The important thing to know is, the strength of various OC brands isn't always measured in just one ingredient or percentage or individual variable. Many think, it is the percentage of the Capsicum that records it's strength. But I can tell you, I have seen many a brand of OC spray, have 15% or even 20% Capsicum, but because of the "type of Capsicum in it, still only registered 80,000 SHU's on the Scoville scale.

In the same Manner, I have seen brands register over 2 million per part on the SHU index, but still only have less than 5% Capiscum. What this means is, get sprayed with one brand and it might get hot, but unbearably hot enough to subdue a threat? Sometimes, not too much. Or, get sprayed with another brand, and while it's hotter than PVIBR splashed on a face shaved with glass, it may not last long enough to incapacitate a threat for any certain amount of time to be effective. As short lived as many Bay Rums.

So if you are researching different brands of OC, you will want to look for 3 things:

1. Percentage of Capsicum. It should be at least 10% or above.

2. What kind of Capsicum? There are at least, 5 different kinds. Some are better than others. You want the brand that will actually list or advertise their HLPC. Or, high performance liquid chromatography, which in laymen's terms, is just a rating or level of "pungency" or how strong it is.

3. Scoville Units (SHU's) The capsicum of many "walmart brands" is derived from the Habanero pepper. These types of sprays, while can be effective for many, might not have the pungency, to ward off the extremely drugged, or determined. my suggestion would be, if the top two qualifications are met, to look for above 2 million per parts Capscinoids resin or residue per part per million. Sabre Red uses a blend of exotic peppers which will deliver an incapacitating hit of 2 million SHU per parts per million.

I have been sprayed with this, it ain't a fun ride. The hottest and most effective spray on the market which can be obtained by civilians, is Fox Labs. They don't use capsicum at all, but instead, use some type of alkaloid resin they derive from a sap they get from a tree or bush or something, called Resiniferatoxin.

It delivers over 5 million SHU's per part per million. While a hit from it I'm sure is some very bad juju, a civilian might want to re-consider how "much" you want to hurt, burn and debilitate some one with this? I think a civilian, who also carries a CCW, should be aware, of why you are pulling an OC canister and not the CCW in the first place?

Is it because, you didn't consider the offender to be a lethal threat? What happens if the 5 million SHU's you used against the offender, turns out to be lethal? But isn't OC spray supposed to be non lethal? Does it mean that it can't be lethal? What if it blinds them, or they had asthma?

Scenario: Someone unarmed walks up to you and says, "give me your money punk." You spray them with 5 million SHU's and they go blind. When they sue you because they said they only asked you for the time of day, did you happen to video record this action between the two of you?

I remember a thread a while back and this same reasoning was discussed about non-lethal bean bag rounds from a shotgun? If OC spray is considered non-lethal, where is the cut off for that civil liability? 2 million SHU's? 5 million? 10 million? Is there such a thing as too much?

Fox Labs produces a 5 million per parts per million OC spray. I don't know of another department that carries it.

 

[nortac]

Great post as always Rob!

 

[Acmemfg]

@OkieStubble pretty much covers it.
Do keep in mind the pain compliance factor with CN/CS chemical agents can be greatly compromised if the assailant is under the influence of one drug or another. When I went through Chemical Agents Instructor school we (of course) had to get a face full of CS. No bueno but many of us were quite capable of working through it. The stuff is not a sure-fire defensive tool.

 

[Hachet]

Sabre pepper gel is the only thing I trust. My son isn't old enough to carry a pistol, so he carries Sabre pepper gel and a "gut 'em" knife.

 

[nortac]

@OkieStubble pretty much covers it.
Do keep in mind the pain compliance factor with CN/CS chemical agents can be greatly compromised if the assailant is under the influence of one drug or another. When I went through Chemical Agents Instructor school we (of course) had to get a face full of CS. No bueno but many of us were quite capable of working through it. The stuff is not a sure-fire defensive tool.

I took a tactical EMS course years ago where we had to walk through an abandoned building that was full of CS gas, without masks, while instructors (with masks) "spritzed" us with pepper spray as we stumbled by, coughing and eyes burning, snot and tears running. You felt like you were gonna die, but of course we didn't. Great fun that!