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PASS Vs. STROKE debate - are they one and the same... or NOT?

Alright gents this one has been bugging me for sometime now.

I see many folks using these terms interchangeably, as if they were synonyms.

To me, a PASS is the process of completely removing the lather from my face once. So, my shave would typically consist of 3 passes. That is starting WTG as my 1st pass, then XTG as 2nd pass and finally ATG as the 3rd pass.

However, during any given pass I might and more often than not will apply several repetitive STROKES on certain spots on my face.

For example, on my chin I would blade-buff and "chipmunk bite" at least half a dozen times during a single pass. This means that throughout the entire 3-pass shave I will have gone over my chin some 20 times, or more if need be.

Before you ask - no, I don't suffer any skin irritation and my shaves are enjoyable, resulting in BBS every time.

I just wanted to know how others felt about PASS Vs. STROKE.

Is it the same thing for you or is it more like I described above - a pass can/will consist of multiple strokes?
 
Hmm. A pass consists of stroke. In swimming a lap consists of many strokes.
I can understand why people could use the terms interchangeable. I think I am with the original poster. But then again....
 
I agree with your logic but it's funny you bring this up today. To expand on the topic, I started working on fewer strokes for each pass to see if it made a difference in the closeness of the shave. Like the way Ken Surfs shaves. DaveHStone described my style of shaving so I am experimenting with longer, fewer strokes. Today went well and I liked the result. Any comments on stroke style?
 
I consider:
One pass = combination of multiple strokes of varying lengths and directions done after lathering.

As soon as all the lathered area is shaved ONE time, it's called ONE PASS.

Strokes consists of the required stops and adjustments (rinsing off the razor, changing the direction of razor etc) done to be able to get best possible shave.

The same process is repeated after reapplying the lather, and then it'll be called 2nd, 3rd.... Pass.
 
Alright gents this one has been bugging me for sometime now.

I see many folks using these terms interchangeably, as if they were synonyms.

To me, a PASS is the process of completely removing the lather from my face once. So, my shave would typically consist of 3 passes. That is starting WTG as my 1st pass, then XTG as 2nd pass and finally ATG as the 3rd pass.

However, during any given pass I might and more often than not will apply several repetitive STROKES on certain spots on my face.

For example, on my chin I would blade-buff and "chipmunk bite" at least half a dozen times during a single pass. This means that throughout the entire 3-pass shave I will have gone over my chin some 20 times, or more if need be.

Before you ask - no, I don't suffer any skin irritation and my shaves are enjoyable, resulting in BBS every time.

I just wanted to know how others felt about PASS Vs. STROKE.

Is it the same thing for you or is it more like I described above - a pass can/will consist of multiple strokes?
Absolutely the same understanding here

One movement of razor across the face for any distance in any direction is a stroke.

Someone may have 15 strokes to a pass and some may have 50 depending on their shave habits.

So one man's three pass shave maybe another's 6 pass shave if you go by strokes per pass !
 
I agree with your logic but it's funny you bring this up today. To expand on the topic, I started working on fewer strokes for each pass to see if it made a difference in the closeness of the shave. Like the way Ken Surfs shaves. DaveHStone described my style of shaving so I am experimenting with longer, fewer strokes. Today went well and I liked the result. Any comments on stroke style?
I like Kenny a lot. I like his stories and anecdotes and style in general.

He too is a Vector aficionado just like I am. Here's one from just a few days ago:


That said, Ken has light beard - thin hair and sparse growth. So, yes HE can shave like that, using single long strokes.

I can't, hence I need to go repetitive, especially on and around my chin. On my cheeks I can and I do use long(er) strokes, but typically after I have cleared the initial growth. This is what Mantic refers too as 2nd WTG pass, which I practice from time to time, depending on my actual growth.
 
I consider:
One pass = combination of multiple strokes of varying lengths and directions done after lathering.

As soon as all the lathered area is shaved ONE time, it's called ONE PASS.

Strokes consists of the required stops and adjustments (rinsing off the razor, changing the direction of razor etc) done to be able to get best possible shave.

The same process is repeated after reapplying the lather, and then it'll be called 2nd, 3rd.... Pass.
Gotcha!

So, it's not all that much about the direction of the particular stroke, rather removing the lather completely once. This is (I think) along the lines of my own understanding.
 
...A pass consists of stroke...
Well... to me a pass consists of multiple storkeS, until all the lather has been removed. Then re-lather for the next pass, which again consist of many, many repetitive stokes.

So, I'm not sure whether you've simply omitted an "S" in your above sentence, as you say you agree with me... or you have a different understanding of the process.
 

Chan Eil Whiskers

Fumbling about.
I'm not sure if I agree with you, @DaveHStone, but I think I do, or, maybe, I think I should.

Not that it matters but this is how I see it.

Ours is a Tower of Babel hobby or endeavor or whatever it is because we frequently don't use the same words to describe the same thing and often have little idea what others are talking about.

Regardless of terminology the essential elements are known, but there is no common terminology.

The goals are two fold.
  1. The most important goal is a Damn Comfortable Shave.
  2. Shave each area enough times to get it smooth to the touch, going close enough so your shave lasts long enough.
Towards those ends there are a few guidelines.
  1. You only have to suit yourself, but Job #1 should always be comfort.
  2. Smooth to the touch and long lasting are relative terms with no common meaning.
  3. Never sacrifice comfort to get a "better shave."
  4. Never worry about BBS.
  5. Chasing the baby is a very bad plan. Especially on your neck.
  6. Some shaves are always going to be closer, smoother, more long lasting, and more comfortable than others.
  7. Use a light touch.
  8. You can go over most areas several times from several directions, but not necessarily all areas. Some of your areas might be able to tolerate only one pass of the blade from one direction (like the area of my neck below my Adam's apple).
  9. Some areas require much more work than others.
  10. Do as little work as necessary in each area.
  11. Don't overthink it.
  12. If the shave isn't comfortable you're overdoing something.
  13. Lather is cheap. Use more when you need to.
  14. Residual glide (or ghost lather) counts as lather.
  15. As long as the area is slick and wet and the razor glides easily you're good.
  16. It doesn't matter how many times you lather an area, but it matters if the area is slick and wet.
  17. When in doubt, do less work.
  18. When in doubt, lather the area again.
  19. Everyone does everything their own way. Find out what works for you. Unless you have similar whiskers and skin, it doesn't matter what works for somebody else. It is possible your skin and whiskers might be exactly like mine, but not necessarily the case.
  20. Enjoy your shaves.
A Damn Comfortable Shave means three things.
  1. The shave is comfortable during the shave.
  2. The shave is comfortable immediately after the shave.
  3. The shave is comfortable until the next shave.
A Damn Comfortable Shave can be accomplished. Consistent perfection is impossible.

There is one essential rule for everything on B&B.
  1. Never assume you know what someone else is talking about or they know what you're talking about unless terms are defined within the conversation.
I applaud your effort here, @DaveHStone, but feel that in terms of "passes" and "strokes" and length of strokes and number of passes and all that stuff it ends up making very little difference. However, it is terribly important in the beginning, and terribly confusing. It would be wonderful to have common terminology, and a common understanding of what we're talking about, but a forum structure does not lend itself to that possibility.

Just my two cents of course.

Happy shaves,

Jim
 
I'm not sure if I agree with you, @DaveHStone, but I think I do, or, maybe, I think I should.

Not that it matters but this is how I see it.

Ours is a Tower of Babel hobby or endeavor or whatever it is because we frequently don't use the same words to describe the same thing and often have little idea what others are talking about.

Regardless of terminology the essential elements are known, but there is no common terminology.

The goals are two fold.
  1. The most important goal is a Damn Comfortable Shave.
  2. Shave each area enough times to get it smooth to the touch, going close enough so your shave lasts long enough.
Towards those ends there are a few guidelines.
  1. You only have to suit yourself, but Job #1 should always be comfort.
  2. Smooth to the touch and long lasting are relative terms with no common meaning.
  3. Never sacrifice comfort to get a "better shave."
  4. Never worry about BBS.
  5. Chasing the baby is a very bad plan. Especially on your neck.
  6. Some shaves are always going to be closer, smoother, more long lasting, and more comfortable than others.
  7. Use a light touch.
  8. You can go over most areas several times from several directions, but not necessarily all areas. Some of your areas might be able to tolerate only one pass of the blade from one direction (like the area of my neck below my Adam's apple).
  9. Some areas require much more work than others.
  10. Do as little work as necessary in each area.
  11. Don't overthink it.
  12. If the shave isn't comfortable you're overdoing something.
  13. Lather is cheap. Use more when you need to.
  14. Residual glide (or ghost lather) counts as lather.
  15. As long as the area is slick and wet and the razor glides easily you're good.
  16. It doesn't matter how many times you lather an area, but it matters if the area is slick and wet.
  17. When in doubt, do less work.
  18. When in doubt, lather the area again.
  19. Everyone does everything their own way. Find out what works for you. Unless you have similar whiskers and skin, it doesn't matter what works for somebody else. It is possible your skin and whiskers might be exactly like mine, but not necessarily the case.
  20. Enjoy your shaves.
A Damn Comfortable Shave means three things.
  1. The shave is comfortable during the shave.
  2. The shave is comfortable immediately after the shave.
  3. The shave is comfortable until the next shave.
A Damn Comfortable Shave can be accomplished. Consistent perfection is impossible.

There is one essential rule for everything on B&B.
  1. Never assume you know what someone else is talking about or they know what you're talking about unless terms are defined within the conversation.
I applaud your effort here, @DaveHStone, but feel that in terms of "passes" and "strokes" and length of strokes and number of passes and all that stuff it ends up making very little difference. However, it is terribly important in the beginning, and terribly confusing. It would be wonderful to have common terminology, and a common understanding of what we're talking about, but a forum structure does not lend itself to that possibility.

Just my two cents of course.

Happy shaves,

Jim
I am speechless. Flabbergasted.

WTFFFFF was that all about???

😂😂😂
 

RumpleBearskin

Contributor
Multiple strokes in a single pass.

I see no way to have the blade move across my entire face and neck or lathered area) with a single stroke. I, at least, must lift it from my face and start another stroke at some point during the pass.

A shave then consists of one or more passes (due to personal preferences), with the traditional three-pass shave, WTG, XTG, ATG, being the archetype.
 

RumpleBearskin

Contributor
My apologies, @VerbaVolant. I thought I said that I saw no way to shave. I don't consider a trackball cart with a custom suction device to be a razor, so that can't be "shaving".

I am nonetheless, suitably impressed that you could find that video. Well done!
 
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