Paladin compared to Lee Sabini
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In my view there‘s nothing like vintage Rooney finest or two band Plisson high mountain white being made today. One of the rare cases where silly prices are justified perhaps. The early Sabini blonde badger and Rooney heritage are both very good but not the same thing as finest - more a good dense silvertip. My very limited experience with Paladins is that the hair isn’t the same at all. Decent quality, well made brushes but not my cup of tea.
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Thanks @blantyre! I do have an old Plisson HMW but it’s 3-band and not too soft. My daily driver is the palladium handle Plisson new synthetic and I love how soft it is.
So are the Paladins softer than Finest? I am not looking for the same but softer
like the synth Plisson but less springy and flingy.
So are the Paladins softer than Finest? I am not looking for the same but softer
like the synth Plisson but less springy and flingy.
Honestly there is no comparison. The closest competitor I ever found to Finest was Blonde badger, and that tapered off over time. Both hairs are overall stiffer than most of the Paladin knots. You will find some batches that have a stiffer hair, which is my personal preference. More of a natural feel to it. I don't feel badger should be totally free of all feeling from it. It should have some tip presence. If you press in with it it can feel a bit prickly, but I use painting motions to apply my lather.
It's all a matter of what you like. That's hard to know what you like without trying stuff. The next best thing is to find people that match up with your tastes as similarly as possible and that have tried the same things as you have. Paladins overall are softer than Rooney Finest indeed for the large part. From my personal experience they are stiff, very densely packed, and have scritch in the tips. More so than any 3-band silvertip, and most 2-bands have. Out of the numerous brushes I have had, and the countless I still have, the closest anything came to Rooney Finest was M&F Blonde badger when first released. It started to become its own hair, and with what is available now isn't the same as what I came to associate them to be when I first tried them.
This is actually normal as there will be variations in batches, but usually the hair stays similar enough to stay within the same classification. I know you can find gel tip M&F Finest as I have one, and likely M&F Blonde but it's been some time since I bought any. I like a natural hair moreso usually that is stiffer or more backbone in it like Shavemac 2-band and 3-band D01. I have a number of Paladins, I've lost count maybe close to 2 dozen, and they are largely consistent. They are usually a softer hair with gel tips, but even there you can find batches that vary. I like the Paladins that don't have noticeable gel tip presence, but even the ones that do I enjoy when I'm in the mood for it. Usually I know when that is, but sometimes I have a dud day when I try it.
Myself I would normally recommend avoiding gel tip to most people as while I absolutely love brushes, to the point of having in the triple digits, I don't like gel tips consistently. Rooney 2-band Heritage has been my most consistent liking, and I don't even reach for those that often, and it took time for it to grow on me. If you want softer than your synth Plisson, you would be best looking in the synthetic category. Synthetic is unnaturally soft. Soften than what even a gel tip badger could produce. It's entirely possible you can feel different upon trying a brush and find badger softer, but I'm not sure how in the world you could come to that conclusion. Everyone has their own opinion on what is the best, but from what you said about finding HMW not that soft I just can't see badger being the area for you, especially a 2-band even if it is gelled.
My recommendation would be to try the Omega Evo line in whatever handle and size suits your fancy. They might be a bit too large for your preference, but as someone that doesn't like springy and for synthetics to fling lather about, it's the best synthetic I have personally tried, and I've tried most everything. I will admit I'm not a diehard for synthetics, however. I get caught up in people gushing about how they outdo badger, and if it does for them, that's cool. In my humble opinion it is no where close, even though I will admit they are getting closer.
It's all a matter of what you like. That's hard to know what you like without trying stuff. The next best thing is to find people that match up with your tastes as similarly as possible and that have tried the same things as you have. Paladins overall are softer than Rooney Finest indeed for the large part. From my personal experience they are stiff, very densely packed, and have scritch in the tips. More so than any 3-band silvertip, and most 2-bands have. Out of the numerous brushes I have had, and the countless I still have, the closest anything came to Rooney Finest was M&F Blonde badger when first released. It started to become its own hair, and with what is available now isn't the same as what I came to associate them to be when I first tried them.
This is actually normal as there will be variations in batches, but usually the hair stays similar enough to stay within the same classification. I know you can find gel tip M&F Finest as I have one, and likely M&F Blonde but it's been some time since I bought any. I like a natural hair moreso usually that is stiffer or more backbone in it like Shavemac 2-band and 3-band D01. I have a number of Paladins, I've lost count maybe close to 2 dozen, and they are largely consistent. They are usually a softer hair with gel tips, but even there you can find batches that vary. I like the Paladins that don't have noticeable gel tip presence, but even the ones that do I enjoy when I'm in the mood for it. Usually I know when that is, but sometimes I have a dud day when I try it.
Myself I would normally recommend avoiding gel tip to most people as while I absolutely love brushes, to the point of having in the triple digits, I don't like gel tips consistently. Rooney 2-band Heritage has been my most consistent liking, and I don't even reach for those that often, and it took time for it to grow on me. If you want softer than your synth Plisson, you would be best looking in the synthetic category. Synthetic is unnaturally soft. Soften than what even a gel tip badger could produce. It's entirely possible you can feel different upon trying a brush and find badger softer, but I'm not sure how in the world you could come to that conclusion. Everyone has their own opinion on what is the best, but from what you said about finding HMW not that soft I just can't see badger being the area for you, especially a 2-band even if it is gelled.
My recommendation would be to try the Omega Evo line in whatever handle and size suits your fancy. They might be a bit too large for your preference, but as someone that doesn't like springy and for synthetics to fling lather about, it's the best synthetic I have personally tried, and I've tried most everything. I will admit I'm not a diehard for synthetics, however. I get caught up in people gushing about how they outdo badger, and if it does for them, that's cool. In my humble opinion it is no where close, even though I will admit they are getting closer.
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- #5
Thank you for the detailed note @kooshman7!
I am waiting on an ebonite with G5A and will think about the Evo, as you suggest. It’s just that I always wonder can I get a luxurious soft natural without overtreated gel tips… I am not looking for softer than a synth but hope to get closer to it
I am waiting on an ebonite with G5A and will think about the Evo, as you suggest. It’s just that I always wonder can I get a luxurious soft natural without overtreated gel tips… I am not looking for softer than a synth but hope to get closer to it
EclipseRedRing
I smell like a Christmas pudding
I have owned one Paladin, a 28mm 2XL with a 2CLNL6 knot. It had a beautiful handle and was wonderfully made, but the knot was massively processed and gelled to the extreme. It was like lathering with a huge, slimy, marshmallow and was the biggest disappointment I have experienced in shaving; I will never buy another. To be clear, this was my error as I despise gel tips, and did not research the knot properly prior to purchase. I suggest paying close attention to the knot descriptions although they do not seem to be often updated on the Paladin web site. Good luck 
I believe you can get luxurious soft natural without the gel tips. I consider Plisson HMW to be good but I have heard reports that later on the quality dropped. I thought I saw you had it from 2009 for some reason. VP Leonhardy is probably the softest one I can think of for right now for something that is still available to buy from a merchant. Some softer options could become available if they get put on BST or elsewhere.
I have owned one Paladin, a 28mm 2XL with a 2CLNL6 knot. It had a beautiful handle and was wonderfully made, but the knot was massively processed and gelled to the extreme. It was like lathering with a huge, slimy, marshmallow and was the biggest disappointment I have experienced in shaving; I will never buy another. To be clear, this was my error as I despise gel tips, and did not research the knot properly prior to purchase. I suggest paying close attention to the knot descriptions although they do not seem to be often updated on the Paladin web site. Good luck
Yeah, I've had brushes that go off into that and I don't like that. Even for the ones I really like it on, it can be a miss sometimes and make me question whether I really want to keep it. I know the answer is yes, it just wasn't the day for me to enjoy it. I'm not going through the hassle of finding the right brush again that has just that feeling that hits the spot when I want it. I'll take an offday here and there.
2CH3K4, 2CWHB5 , 2CWHD5, 2CWHE5, and reading on 2CLNK7 it seems like they are far more to my liking. I can state the 2CWHE5 and 2CWHD5 are definitely to my liking. I should be able to make the best analysis on 2CLSE5 as I have 6 brushes on this, but truth be told a good number of my Paladins sit unused to this day. Not on purpose, just too many shinies to play with. While the knots might not always be exactly to my liking, I find they are quite consistent, and there is just too much Ken does right to complain. I can certainly wait until the stars align and I get a brush that matches my tastes. I like the cost savings anyhow of used.
The M&F Finest knots are frankly all over the place. Some like 2-band Heritage, some that are a mix between Finest and Blonde, and more. I have one of the Heritage II Blonde from when they were first introduced and found it closer to what Blonde was like when it was first introduced. The hair is thinner and finer than what either of the knots of what I have now. Each batch has some variation, but I will say that it seems like Blonde and Finest have had more variation than I am used to when it comes to brushes. I like tips that are natural without the gelling and have tip presence. Sometimes it is called scritch, it is usually better used when referring to 2-band brushes. 3-band sort of have it. I have decided to just come down to calling it tip presence as I want to feel them on my face. I use painting motions and light. Definitely not the scrubbing motions you'll see many a youtuber when I've seen it linked. This is just a brief overview as I have to get going.
The modern finest has nothing to do with the vintage stuff. You might as well compare a white plastic handle with a real ivory one. I had an MF finest that had gel tips! The original finest has a very pleasant prickliness but is still very soft, long and springy.
My hunch is that those vintage finest, 2 band high mountain and lampblack Simpson Manchurian were from older wild badgers that roamed in cold, high areas. Most badger hair now is a by-product from farm raised badgers (may even be a domesticated breed) that are used to make sausages. They probably never leave the pen until they get the chop. Consequently the hair lacks the thickness and length of the wild breeds.
My hunch is that those vintage finest, 2 band high mountain and lampblack Simpson Manchurian were from older wild badgers that roamed in cold, high areas. Most badger hair now is a by-product from farm raised badgers (may even be a domesticated breed) that are used to make sausages. They probably never leave the pen until they get the chop. Consequently the hair lacks the thickness and length of the wild breeds.
