So many good points in all these contributions. Perhaps had P&G listened to the voices here, these stores might've survived! As a visitor to the US, I did often pop in and was put off by the prices (of course) and often irritating salespeople. But the shaving cream products have always really been better than good - excellent IMHO. And, having now just been in a Marshalls and agreeing that $9.99 was an acceptable price to pay for the Bergamot & Neroli cream tub, I confirm that the product is terrific - but at the lower price point. Imagine had they sold this product at $10 - they would've flown off the shelves. The age of online, overpriced models, poor sales staff (not always), rentals/overhead and the artisan explosion all have taken its toll. Now if they re-launched with a basic shaving range at Marshalls prices, they could fly! And I am not charging P&G for that advice - which they should've taken years back!
P&G closing most Art of Shaving stores
- Thread starter Galaktus
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Unfortunately, in most companies, execs and management are detached from reality.
The store here in New Orleans closed early last year. It was in a prime location and connected to one of the premium men's store in the city.
I see it as a positive move, really. With the success of the Heritage razor and the move into Target, I see them transitioning from a boutique marketing strategy, serving mostly tourists and first timers, to a mass market strategy. Maybe their ridiculous prices will come down. Let's just hope the quality stays up.
I only have 2 AoS products in my den, a crappy pure badger brush I got at an estate sale and a tub of their peppermint cream that I love and got at a clearance table at Ulta for $3.00.
Last time I went in they wanted to sell me a 5 blade tuck of Gillette Silver Blues for $6.00.
I see it as a positive move, really. With the success of the Heritage razor and the move into Target, I see them transitioning from a boutique marketing strategy, serving mostly tourists and first timers, to a mass market strategy. Maybe their ridiculous prices will come down. Let's just hope the quality stays up.
I only have 2 AoS products in my den, a crappy pure badger brush I got at an estate sale and a tub of their peppermint cream that I love and got at a clearance table at Ulta for $3.00.
Last time I went in they wanted to sell me a 5 blade tuck of Gillette Silver Blues for $6.00.
One man's luxury is another man's junk. Which is how I view AOS: Junque
I'm sorry to see this, but not surprised. One of my first forays into high-end products was in the 90s at their flagship store in New York, when AOS was still privately owned. I bought a D.R. Harris Arlington shaving stick.
After P&G got their hands on it, they didn't care about hiring competent staff and training them to be even remotely courteous, let alone knowledgeable. Their B&M stores were not enough of an "experience" to build a loyal customer base. Many outside factors didn't help, as has been mentioned.
That said, I saw the new AOS display in my local Wegmans and picked up an AOS razor. The handle is a simplified Muhle design and has been in heavy rotation for a couple of months. Maybe this will be their way forward.
After P&G got their hands on it, they didn't care about hiring competent staff and training them to be even remotely courteous, let alone knowledgeable. Their B&M stores were not enough of an "experience" to build a loyal customer base. Many outside factors didn't help, as has been mentioned.
That said, I saw the new AOS display in my local Wegmans and picked up an AOS razor. The handle is a simplified Muhle design and has been in heavy rotation for a couple of months. Maybe this will be their way forward.
Flintstone65
Imagining solutions for imaginary problems
I went to one in Orlando (Disney Springs)....it wasn't a bad experience, in fact it was the SAME experience I find at just about every retailer I visit. I'm looking for a tool and want to know the merits of one over the other, let me head down to my big box hardware store and search for a person who will ultimately shrug at me and look at their phone for the answer. Same thing at AOS, I tried to engage the counter person to talk about the products, and I'm reasonably sure they hadn't used any of them. Don't get me wrong, I don't expect every salesperson to be an expert in all of their products, but be engaged, be intellectually curious, have an owner's-mentality about what you sell....oh wait, what am I thinking, that is NOT where retail is anymore, and it sure as heck isn't where most folks I run across are at anymore, regardless of where they work. Yep, I'm a guy in his mid-50's, so I guess all my sentences start with "back before the World Wide Whatever we used to...."
So in my hoarse old-guy voice I say good riddance. I don't need another disengaged 20-something worker staring blankly at me like I'm their parent (or grandparent) asking them "whatcha want to do with your life" whenever I ask, "so what's the difference between these two products?"....I know the answer is probably "don't know, don't care, please go away so I can play with my phone".
The counter sales people in these stores probably make around $11 or $12 an hour. They cannot afford $20 pucks of shaving soap, $80 aftershave and $70 Merkur razors. Their shaving knowledge will be Barbasol and disposable razors. It's not their fault.
I was at a AOS store once, I walked out thinking "Art of No Shave" the prices were nuts, and the stuff just didn't seem to be worth it at all.
I personally think they would have benefited from selling other products, and offering more product diversity. To the average joe thinking that they are getting something "superb" then good on AOS because they have pulled the wool over the eyes of alot of the one timer's.
To the guys that are dedicated to the wet shaving lifestyle, most just move along and past the store.
I personally think they would have benefited from selling other products, and offering more product diversity. To the average joe thinking that they are getting something "superb" then good on AOS because they have pulled the wool over the eyes of alot of the one timer's.
To the guys that are dedicated to the wet shaving lifestyle, most just move along and past the store.
Flintstone65
Imagining solutions for imaginary problems
Yeah, I know you're right. But even if you can't afford it, why not ask the customers what they use, and why they use it. Why not mention that you had a guy in here the other day who really seemed to like this particular soap or aftershave? [Assuming you bothered to ask the customer purchasing those products some questions as well] Why not go on the net and find the nuts like us who can wax eloquent about a soap, aftershave, razor or blade for days and days? And I know the answer, it's just a crappy $11 per hour job (which was slightly more than I made when I graduated with a B.S. degree in Comp Science 30+ years ago.....and yes, I'm old, and a $1 in 1987 was like a $1000 today...actually it's like $2.26 today). I also know brick-and-mortar retail is hard, you stand around for hours, sometimes customers are rude, some won't even return a smile. But why not ask, "hi -- what brings you in today....just looking or can I help you find something specific?" -- 99% of the time it'll be a mumbled "just looking"; but you can follow up with a "Can I ask what you're shaving with now? Gillette or Schick, total disposable or the handle stays and you replace the cartridge? I only ask because a lot of my customers swear by this way of shaving....it can ultimately be cheaper, and folks who have problems with irritation, bumps or just plain bleeding, also say this is a whole lot more comfortable way to shave"....met with silence, then just say, "I'll let you browse you in peace, but if you need anything I'm right over there". Aside from the fact that most retail clerks have set the bar so low in so many places, that an interaction like the one above stands out as an OMG experience (at least in my head), it just makes the time past faster if you engage with the customer....or you can try hitting on a co-worker and I guess that works too.
Okay, I'll wander back to the "old man" rant thread.
EclipseRedRing
I smell like a Christmas pudding
I visited the USA last year and happened to enter an AOS store. I was invited to examine a Gillette heated razor, surely the most absurd razor yet produced by Gillette, although I have no doubt they will soon surpass it. I know that many users rate AOS products highly so perhaps I was too quick to dismiss both the razor and the store, but it quickly became apparent that I was not the target market for either so I went on my way.
I agree with you 100%. I was just hitting them for their high prices again.
have totally enjoyed my visits in the past to AOS shops!!
absolutely top shelf experiences!
absolutely top shelf experiences!
Any future releases via online sales would negate any need for brick and mortar stores. Heritage was a successful market test. P&G are getting hit hard for their disposable plastic line and also have been hit hard by beard fades and their last marketing campaign (Doesn’t matter what people think about it, it did not help sales). A new line is coming, possibly DE but a “new” type of DE blade is probably on the way sooner than later which they could charge a lot more for. Look for a new line to come out of the new Cincinnati facilities within 2 years or less. The new blades would probably be the same if not more in cost than the current disposables. Carts aren’t going anywhere.
P&G will keep a few successful stores open and keep the merchandise brand intact for their AOS line. Cheaper to sell online and to retail outlets. Look for prices to initially go down to bring in customers for the AOS line then increase significantly down the road.
P&G will keep a few successful stores open and keep the merchandise brand intact for their AOS line. Cheaper to sell online and to retail outlets. Look for prices to initially go down to bring in customers for the AOS line then increase significantly down the road.
Where there is chaos there is opportunity. Cool now we get to take advantage of clearance and going out of business sales. I want to see posts and pics of guys buying tubs of AOS creams for $3.
Hey when your used to paying $35 for 5 Gillette fusion blades $6 for 5 DE blades sounds like a steal. When I first started shaving with the VDH TTO $3 for 5 VDH blades seemed like a great deal to me. Until I looked up 100 blade packs on Amazon did I realize I was getting ripped off.Last time I went in they wanted to sell me a 5 blade tuck of Gillette Silver Blues for $6.00.
For my last birthday, my daughter got me a $50 gift certificate to AOS. Were it not for that certificate, I would never have made a purchase from AOS as I consider their prices excessive. I ended up purchasing a puck of sandalwood shaving soap in a wooden bowl for $50. I had to pay tax and shipping out of my own pocket.
The AOS shaving soap was an excellent soap, but it is not quite as good as the best soaps in my den, none of which cost anywhere near what I paid for the AOS. However, I did get a nice wooden bowl and it reminds me of my daughter.
The AOS shaving soap was an excellent soap, but it is not quite as good as the best soaps in my den, none of which cost anywhere near what I paid for the AOS. However, I did get a nice wooden bowl and it reminds me of my daughter.
I got a three pack of the old Valobra-made triple-milled tallow formula AoS sandalwood soap a while back on Ebay after it was discontinued. I think I paid $35 for the three pucks replete with little brown drawstring gift bags with a faux-velvet finish.
The level of performance and the quality of the scent are both very good and the stuff lasts a long time, so it was an excellent value at $11.67/puck. The problem from the shaver's perspective is that AoS was charging way more than that when it was a current item. The problem from the store's perspective is that the very high overhead of rented retail space means that they need a lot more margin than they'd get selling it for $11.67/puck to keep the lights on, and no practical level of volume is going to fix that.
I think L'Occitane can keep the doors open with a similar-but-not-identical model because they carry a lot of non-shaving items.
The level of performance and the quality of the scent are both very good and the stuff lasts a long time, so it was an excellent value at $11.67/puck. The problem from the shaver's perspective is that AoS was charging way more than that when it was a current item. The problem from the store's perspective is that the very high overhead of rented retail space means that they need a lot more margin than they'd get selling it for $11.67/puck to keep the lights on, and no practical level of volume is going to fix that.
I think L'Occitane can keep the doors open with a similar-but-not-identical model because they carry a lot of non-shaving items.
I called it over a year ago and I’m a shareholder so I keep track of things that P&G is doing. A little background first. Gillette almost released a new DE Tech due for Christmas of 2017. At the last minute, it was completely scrapped. I was told as well as others by AOS employees that it was on the way, they even had the posters displayed at many stores.
I was disappointed back then. Wanted to see a new Tech. Thought it would be good for P&G. I posted about it and universally was told that Gillette would never do this. I agree with those comments overall, carts keep the lights on at Gillette, they wouldn’t go in that direction, but there are other things to consider.
The points I made back then were that Gillette was losing a lot of market share to Harry’s and Dollar Shave Club, the beard fads were hurting them, failure to adjust to trends (Namely online sales) and they were being hounded for putting a ton of plastic in landfills. Not just my opinion, but major shareholders were quite upset and offered up the same.
One quick fix to down the competition would be to flood the market with a lower price alternative. Once your competition tries to catch up, it’s almost all over. You regained your market share, then prices go back up. A big company can get away with this.
I thought a reintroduction of DE was going to happen then, I was wrong.
Gillette decided to go with a new marketing campaign instead. The Hail Mary pass. Combined with the new campaign was the introduction of much more affordable carts. They were keeping with the bread and butter. The new campaign ultimately failed and they took an 8 Billion dollar hit. Don’t listen to regular media sources, trust direct sources. Some companies may claim those loses as just part of business planning. Gillette has never recorded such a thing in it’s history.
When I read about the loss, I knew Plan B was coming soon. I turned out to be correct. The Heritage was waiting. Plan B. They ordered a respected design from Mühle and the handles were produced in the US. Then they sold them directly off of Amazon. No advanced planning just testing the waters, no tragedy with failure.
Then an incredible thing happened. Our community shut down Gillette on Amazon. We shut them down for almost 2 weeks. Gillette couldn’t keep up with demand and the Heritage was unavailable. It finally came back, but think about that. An older, but trusted existing design made in Germany, not even produced by Gillette sold out completely. Amazing thing folks.
So for the last. As I read about the Heritage selling out, the very same week it was announced that P&G had approved brand new facilities for Gillette to be constructed in short order in Cincinnati, Ohio. For those of us that ordered the Heritage, this happens to be the same location on our boxes. P&G would not approve new manufacturing facilities for a brand that is selling less product. They would do it for a new line, a new focus.
I think you will see the new line will end up being DE or a new DE design that will fit in traditional DE razors. Would replace disposables, make the earth happy, Gillette looks great, they can charge the same for the blades as the disposables and best of all, they don’t have to really produce a lot of razors for it. I think they will at some point, but remember, we already did that for them. We already bought our vintage and modern razors to put their blades in. All they have to do is dump disposables, sell their new blades and we will buy them to stick in our razors. They know pretty well how many of us are out there, a lot more than people suspect. Blade sales. Easy math. Average blade use by number of blades sold.
I think you will see that 2017 Tech make an appearance for new consumers after all. I’m not expecting to ever see Gillette make an adjustable again, but who knows, maybe a limited holiday release. The guy that convinced them to test the Heritage deserves a raise.
Sorry for the long response, but I’ve been following them closely for a couple of years and these are just observations.
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