Great thread!
I'm going to throw the Martinez out there, another good gin cocktail.
I'm going to throw the Martinez out there, another good gin cocktail.
Overlooked/underappeciated cocktails
- Thread starter The Knize
- Start date
Rob, thanks again for the great response. Indeed, orange liqueurs are not such a simple subject. I have also seen a lot of tiki guys sing the praises of Clements creole shrub. A supposedly spicier orange liqueur for mixers. The Ferrand is on the list though. Anything designed for classic cocktails is interesting to me. There is even a rum out there intended to be a one bottle solution for mai tais. Merchants Reserve. Unfortunately it is not distributed in my locale.
- Thread starter
- #43
<Clements creole shrub>
I noticed that one in my trip around the internet looking for info on Curaçaos. (I guess that should be an initial cap inasmuch as the liqueur is named for the proper name of an island.) Sounds very interesting. Their rum is, if it is the same place, although not a favorite of mine. Too cool a name! I will be on the look out for the shrub and the Merchants Reserve.
I tasted the Ferrand straight up tonight. Very orangey. Pronounced vanilla notes, but I assume that is from wood, not from actual vanilla pods/seeds. Somewhat sweet--not compared to other orange liqueurs, but still hardly dry. The brandy notes, except for the vanilla, are fairly subtle. In contrast, the XO straight is really nice cognac notes in front, with vanilla notes not forward.
I noticed that one in my trip around the internet looking for info on Curaçaos. (I guess that should be an initial cap inasmuch as the liqueur is named for the proper name of an island.) Sounds very interesting. Their rum is, if it is the same place, although not a favorite of mine. Too cool a name! I will be on the look out for the shrub and the Merchants Reserve.
I tasted the Ferrand straight up tonight. Very orangey. Pronounced vanilla notes, but I assume that is from wood, not from actual vanilla pods/seeds. Somewhat sweet--not compared to other orange liqueurs, but still hardly dry. The brandy notes, except for the vanilla, are fairly subtle. In contrast, the XO straight is really nice cognac notes in front, with vanilla notes not forward.
Rob, I went ahead and posted up Denizen's web site and photo. A very interesting concept along with the Ferrand curacao. It is great to see dedicated efforts to revive classic taste profiles. It shows a real passion for their products. I can get the Ferrand product anywhere. Denizen's not so much.
Denizen Merchant’s Reserve | Denizen Rum
Denizen Merchant’s Reserve | Denizen Rum
While there are some exceptions, "rum" and "cane alcohol" usually mean two different things. "Rum" refers to a liquor distilled from fermented molasses or other byproducts from refining sugar. "Cane alcohol" refers to a liquor distilled from fermented, unrefined sugar cane juice. Depending on how distillations one employs, the two can have quite different character.
- Thread starter
- #46
I knew it was complicated when I wrote what I did earlier. As I understand it, rhum agricole, a French term, is made from fermented cane juice, not molasses or other sugar refining byproducts, and it is a rum, within the English language definition. Other rums, such as Ron Abuelo, are made from mixture of rums made from molasses and from cane juice. Cachaça is made from fermented cane juice. For some purposes, as I understand it, it is recognized as a type of rum.
That does not mean that all cane alcohol is considered rum, but I have no idea really!
And then there's clarin, which I just learned about last week:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/31/dining/drinks/craft-rum-liquor.html
This is pretty much an academic (or even pedantic) argument or a marketing tool unless and until common usage starts to include cane liquors as "rum." I know there are references, but not many. Again, it's academic. If anything, it removes precision from language, and that's not not necessarily good.
It's like the debate as to whether a hot dog is a sandwich. It doesn't really matter, and does anyone even want it that way unless they are being pedantic or trying to make a sensational buck?
It's like the debate as to whether a hot dog is a sandwich. It doesn't really matter, and does anyone even want it that way unless they are being pedantic or trying to make a sensational buck?
- Thread starter
- #49
I forgot about clarin. I saw that same NYT article. I do not think I have ever had one.
As close as I have come to Clarin is Niesson's Rhum Agricole. Barkeep at local speakeasy made me a Hemingway Daquiri over the summer with it. Outstanding. +1 as many times as you can count on the noble daquiri. Lime juice, rum, sugar syrup, ice, shake, drink. Repeat with caution. How this ever got so screwed up is beyond me.
As for Papa's namesake(wasn't it daquiri #3 at El Floridita?) I actually quite like it. The play of lime, grapefruit, maraschino, and in my case rhum agricole was smashing good. I suspect a lot of the issues with mucked up daquiris had to do with cheap white rums like Bacardi and their near vodka like(to me) benal rubbing alcohol flavour. I'm no one to really speak to that with my amateur status but it just hits me that way. I think this is what led to the frozen koolaid drinks of the 70s/80s/early 90s.
As for Papa's namesake(wasn't it daquiri #3 at El Floridita?) I actually quite like it. The play of lime, grapefruit, maraschino, and in my case rhum agricole was smashing good. I suspect a lot of the issues with mucked up daquiris had to do with cheap white rums like Bacardi and their near vodka like(to me) benal rubbing alcohol flavour. I'm no one to really speak to that with my amateur status but it just hits me that way. I think this is what led to the frozen koolaid drinks of the 70s/80s/early 90s.
- Thread starter
- #51
I agree that the classification of cane liquor or not does not much matter for the most part. We mostly trying to figure out what that web site was saying Curaçaos and triple secs were usually based on. Given the quality of many items labeled triple sec, I would guess that the base liquor is whatever is cheapest.
<I'm no one to really speak to that with my amateur status >
I do not know that anyone participating in this thread is professional in any sense about this stuff. Would be great if they were, of course. Like a lot of stuff on B&B I think folks read up on stuff and try a bunch of things and share the knowledge with others. I think the level of all of our knowledge goes up over time. You are getting to be very well read on this stuff and definitely in the mix on trying things! A consuming passion, so to speak! <g>
<I'm no one to really speak to that with my amateur status >
I do not know that anyone participating in this thread is professional in any sense about this stuff. Would be great if they were, of course. Like a lot of stuff on B&B I think folks read up on stuff and try a bunch of things and share the knowledge with others. I think the level of all of our knowledge goes up over time. You are getting to be very well read on this stuff and definitely in the mix on trying things! A consuming passion, so to speak! <g>
Rob. Yeah, kind of a poor choice of wording. I am mostly trying to avoid getting too big for my breeches. Until three months ago I had no idea what a rhum agricole was, let alone how it could be deployed in a mixed drink. So I wanted to temper my comments about white rums like the typical Bacardi I see at stores. I didn't even realise many white rums are barrel aged for character and then filtered clear to remove the caramel colouring before bottling. Much to learn about products. It still doesn't change my outlook on the benality of that particular rum. LOL. And thanks again for the nice responses on this thread. Betwen you and Tex I have learned much in this Speakeasy forum.
Just to get back to the underappreciated nature of the daiquiri, don't expect to get something like Papa drank should you ever go to El Floridita. We were in Havana about a month and a half ago and walked into there. It was packed with tourists drinking frozen monstrosities that were poured constantly and as quickly as possible from blender carafes. You couldn't get something that wasn't frozen, even if you wanted to. I swear that, just for a moment, I saw the bronze statue of Hemingway shake his head.
Now, the mojito at the Nacional was worth the time! It also was not very expensive at all (roughly $7, if I recall).
That and cocaine (I wish I were kidding), but that might be a chicken and egg thing.
That's a good an interesting point from a historical perspective. Back in the day of the sugar trade boom, I believe the molasses based liquors were the cheap ones. The price of sugar was so high that it was a luxury to ferment cane juice. I have absolutely no idea how all that lines up with the development of all the other stuff, but you just made me think about it.
I used to be quite fond of a kamikaze; haven't had one in years.
- Thread starter
- #55
I did not know that. I am surprised. I would think a little color never hurts. Run of the mill, commerical white rum seems pretty bad to me, too.
Vodka & tonic. Used to go fishing at Banks Lake in Washington every July. Wives would meet us when we came in off the boat, burnt to heck, with mason jars, vodka, tonic water, splash of lime, ice, and more vodka. A couple of those and the evening was a mellow time. I still mix one up once in a while when it is hot and muggy.
I’ve been on a gimlet kick. Sat outside with one last night and enjoyed the light simplicity of it.
Gin or Vodka Gimlets?
I have pre-made a bottle.
Take a 750 ml bottle of Vodka, remove 3/4 cup of Vodka and add 3/4 cup Rose's Sweetened Lime Juice and a tsp. of water.
Store in freezer.
I'm surprised at many of the cocktails that y'all are saying are under appreciated or infrequently ordered. I assume that it's because I live in the birthplace of the cocktail, New Orleans. The Old Fashioned, French 75, Ramos Fizz, Sazerac are all commonly and frequently ordered. Another that is common to NO but not elsewhere is the Pimms Cup, my favorite summer refresher.
I have to admit that we suck at a good Daquiris, but then we make up for it by selling the crummy ones at drive through shops.
I have to admit that we suck at a good Daquiris, but then we make up for it by selling the crummy ones at drive through shops.
Gin. I don’t care for vodka.
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