Overlooked/underappeciated cocktails

[TexLaw]

This weekend one of the individuals in our group ordered a Black Russian. I had not seen that one in quite a few years.

That's one of Mrs. TL's favorites. The good news is that bartenders often know what you're talking about when you order one, although I've actually had to explain it to a few. The bad news is that there aren't many bartenders who make a good one. The classic recipe is 2 parts vodka to 1 part Kahlua, but I often see it made the other way around. Mrs. TL really likes it more 50/50, so that's not such a big deal for her, but it's waaaaaaaaay too sweet for yours truly.

A real Marini, preferably Churchill's recipe. Pour gin & ice in a pitcher, glance, and not too long, at a bottle of Vermouth sitting across the room.

I always heard that Churchill's recipe was for the bartender to look in the direction of France while pouring the gin.

While I get a kick out of that, and I know you were joking, it brings up something that irritates me a little about trying to get a classic martini. It's become the culture that a standard martini be little more than a glass of ice cold gin with a suggestion of vermouth--so much so that I can hardly get anyone to make a classic, standard 5:1 martini. Just asking for a little more vermouth often results in them looking at me like I just ask them to spike the thing with the blood of an infant.

 

[The Knize]

Re daiquiris: Recently I have been serving my daiquiris over ice that has been crushed in a Lewis bag, similar to many so-called Tiki bar drinks. (Definitely not heaped up like a mint julep!) So not quite frozen, much less put in a blender, but along a spectrum leading to that. I cannot find anything definitive on line as to how daiquiris were originally served. Anyone have any sources or thoughts on this? I like the crushed ice because what I am pouring into it is strong, and the crushed ice provides some dilution as well as making the drink very cold. I suppose to be honest, I also like the look, this being a hot weather drink to my mind.

I do not know how scarce black Russians are these days. My younger son, now 28, seemed to go through a phase of them, so I was thinking they may have been popular among the younger set, but what would I know. Too sweet for me.

There are all sorts of amusing lines, most apocryphal. about Churchill and his favored vermouth-less martinis.

I guess I would say I like traditional martinis--that is, gin--with various amounts of vermouth in them, depending on my mood, but would consider some vermouth--maybe even up to a 2-1 ratio--necessary. I think in the past martinis were associated with getting smashed quickly and even with alcoholism, and no vermouth or very little vermouth seems to foster that concept. I guess I do not feel that drawn to drinking straight gin or gin with an olive, and the classic martini is just too wonderful a combination of flavors to turn it into just gin. On the other hand, there are wonderful gins around these days with very complicated flavor profiles. Supposedly some younger people are now drinking 1-1 ratios with orange water as an additive. (I assume no olive, too, but I do not know.)

Does anyone know if Churchill was drinking Navy strength gin?

The gimlet might be an overlooked drink. I have fooled around with these, but find I do not love them.

I have never really liked brandy Alexanders. Famously John Lennon's favorite cocktail. Too milk shaky for my purposes. I do wonder if there are not bandy/cognac cocktails going overlooked.

 

[TexLaw]

The gimlet might be an overlooked drink. I have fooled around with these, but find I do not love them.

That's funny you mention that one. I thought about it but then just forgot to say anything. We have some friends that love gimlets and often get frustrated because they often get a funny look when ordering it or because many bartenders add soda. They were nearly over the moon when we went someplace that just served 'em right up!

 

[Pepin]

For gin:
Alaska (gin, yellow chartreuse & Angostura bitters)
Artillery (gin, sweet vermouth & Angostura bitters)
French 75 (gin,lemon juice, syrup & champagne)

Brandy
Sidecar (brandy, cointreau, & lemon juice)

 

[Phog Allen]

I think egg white as a cocktail ingredient is generally overlooked and underappreciated. I think on that grounds a real whiskey sour fits in this thread.

By the way, it occurs to me that a gin rickey is very close to a Tom Collins. Lime instead of lemon in the former and sugar or syrup is optional. So query: Has the Tom Collins become overlooked and underappreciated? I have not ordered or seen someone order a Tom Collins for a long time.

Rob, as usual outstanding points. Egg white is a fantastic ingredient in a number of drinks. I am about to make a Clover Club for the first time and egg white is an essential. As in, it isn't a Clover Club without it. And real raspberry syrup, not Grenadine.

+1 to whomever mentioned Martini. To wit; It is GIN, vermouth, and an olive garnish. It is not appletini, it is not vodka, and it isn't shaken.

 

[The Knize]

I used Metcalfe's Raspberry Liqueur for Clover Clubs. It has alcohol, but to me is mostly a very pure and excellent raspberry syrup. I cannot imagine that what generally passes for Grenadine would be much of a substitute, or even real Grenadine, which is pomegranate syrup! A fun drink. Interesting that it was once so popular. Sweet and fruity, of course.

Good list, Pepin. I was thinking of a French 75 as fitting the criteria for this thread when I started the thread. A great, easily accessible drink, with a great pre-prohibition pedigree, and you do not have to use real champagne to make a good drink. Does not hurt, of course. I am a believer in using excellent ingredients in mixed drinks where justified, and there does not have to be anything in this drink that would bring the champagne down. I do not know the Alaska or the Artillery.

Sidecar. Excellent example of a brandy cocktail. Once very popular, I suspect. I may mix one of these up when I get home tonight.

Re gimlets, there is some controversy, as I understand it, about whether one should be using Rose's lime juice, or whether Rose's--or at least the modern version of Rose's--is an abomination and one should create their own lime syrup. Where do your friends come out on that, TexLaw?

<because many bartenders add soda>

I would be frustrated, too. Soda has no place in a gimlet. That is putting the drink in gin rickey or Tom Collins territory, a different drink concept altogether. I would say that high potency of a gimlet, similar to martinis, is a part of its charm. In fact, I would say Navy strength gin and "homemade" lime syrup brings the drink up a lot. This is another drink with a background. One of the Bernie Gunther books has him, at a time he is working at a hotel, and his friends drinking endless Navy strength gin gimlets on the French Riviera, as, I recall, in the early 1950s. I think of the gimlet as having a certain hip element. It is an interesting drink in that it is sweet, but is always a powerhouse--or should be!--even with regular strength gin.

 

[cathdeacon]

I should have listed corpse reviver recipe#2 ingredients last post. They are:
Equal parts gin, lillet blanc, grand marnier or other orange liquor, fresh squeezed lemon juice, and a healthy splash of absynthe. Shaken in ice, served with a cherry. I have turned on many of my friends to this recently, and they really love it.

 

[the_edski]

For the Negroni and the Americano crowd, I offer the Boulevardier. The gin of the Negroni is replaced by Rye whiskey. The interplay of the herbal Campari, sweet Vermouth and spicy Rye is unmatched.

 

[The Knize]

For the Negroni and the Americano crowd, I offer the Boulevardier. The gin of the Negroni is replaced by Rye whiskey. The interplay of the herbal Campari, sweet Vermouth and spicy Rye is unmatched.

Usually 2-1-1 rather than Negroni's 1-1-1 ratio, rye listed first, as I recall. All of these Campari/sweet vermouth drinks are excellent and rightfully popular.

 

[TexLaw]

Where do your friends come out on that, TexLaw?

We didn't discuss it, but they seemed quite happy with Rose's, which is what the place used. This was just an old school bar that makes old school drinks in an old school way, not the sort of place that would make their own lime cordial.

 

[The Knize]

Yeah! Lime cordial. Interesting name. No alcohol in a lime cordial. As I recall, to make one's own, you make an intense simple syrup and add lime juice and lime zest, and let it sit in the fridge overnight, and then strain out the zest. The idea being to create a supersweet, intensely natural lime ingredient to stand up to barely dilute gin. A real cocktail.

I think part of the complaint about the current Roses is it uses high fructose corn syrup, which annoys me, too.

 

[bobmsp]

For the Negroni and the Americano crowd, I offer the Boulevardier. The gin of the Negroni is replaced by Rye whiskey. The interplay of the herbal Campari, sweet Vermouth and spicy Rye is unmatched.

I also like the Tegroni, with tequila subbing for the gin.

My summer cocktail - the Tegroni

 

[Pivo Slump]

Harvey wallbanger
I recently went to a nice Italian restaurant and they didnt know what that was, worse yet they didn't have galliano. The veal parmesan was wonderful so it kinda made up for it.

 

[The Knize]

Made a Sidecar tonight. Kirkland XO Cognac, Cointreau, lemon juice 2--3/4-3/4. Great cocktail.

 

[Phog Allen]

Rob, you should take a look at YouTube channel 'Distinguished Spirits'. They guy is old school in his cocktail making and ingredients choices. He made a superb loking lime cordial that I believe he referenced from 12 bottle bar. It contains of course line juice and lime zest but also adjuncts like cardamom and another spice I canmot think of offhand. Looks to be fantastic and I will be making it soon. I am somewhst embarrassed to admit I have never had a gimlet and as a gin fan would like to remedy that.

The guy also does a lot of traditional tiki and it is where I learned to make a real mai tai and start appreciating rum drinks. In fact, I would go so far as to say that as of now I may prefer rum to most other brown liquors. Most of them are too astringent/alcohol burn on my palate. At least served neat. And I daresay rum mixes with lime just as well as gin. And I realise that is a bold statement.

Also, whomever mentioned the John Collins and various fizzes is right on. These classic drinks are classics for a reason. Most people who do not care for them have not had one made with decent or proper ingredients.

 

[The Knize]

Looks like a great You Tube series. I will spend some time with it.

Cardamom is an interesting ingredient! Does sound old school. I will be interested in your take on gimlets. Again, not my favorite.

I ended up making a second Sidecar last night. (I could have done without that. Feeling a little parched today!) I substituted Pierre Ferrand Dry Curacao for the Cointreau, and I thought it was better. More flavor to stand up to but also compliment the XO.

I used to really like Cointreau in drinks, despite the price, but lately I am feeling it is a bit light and one dimensional. Similar to St. Germain for elderflower. There are excellent elderflower syrups that do better than St. Germain to me. (I did not realize that St. Germain was a recent invention by Barcardi. I assumed it had been around forever and was newly rediscovered.)

 

[TexLaw]

This has been a fun discussion.

I haven't had a gimlet in ages (I may have had a taste when we were with those friends, that night, but I don't recall). I have half a mind to go to the store for a sack of limes and see about making a lime cordial.

That Distinguished spirits recipe is interesting, but I don't quite know what to make of it. Cardamom and coriander are two spices I adore, but I like to keep ingredients simple. Otherwise, they are very limited. It sounds like that cordial was made to bring more interest to a vodka gimlet. I'd rather just use a gin I like.

 

[Phog Allen]

Rob, I will let you know when it is done. I really need to try the gimlet before cooler wewther sets in so I can compare it later in the fall.

Rob, about that Ferrand curacao. I have been using Cointraeu in mai tais and I think originally Trader Vic called for curacao. But I don't think he specified a brand. I am pretty sure Cointreau is neutral spirit based but is curacao the same or rum based?

Tex, I am unsure if the two dominate the cordial or not. I will be finding out!

 

[The Knize]

Rob, I will let you know when it is done. I really need to try the gimlet before cooler wewther sets in so I can compare it later in the fall.

Rob, about that Ferrand curacao. I have been using Cointraeu in mai tais and I think originally Trader Vic called for curacao. But I don't think he specified a brand. I am pretty sure Cointreau is neutral spirit based but is curacao the same or rum based?

Tex, I am unsure if the two dominate the cordial or not. I will be finding out!

Excellent questions! As usual, I am about to tell you more than I know! However, see The Difference Between Curaçao, Triple Sec & Orange Liqueur Explained - Senior Liqueur and various Wikipedia articles as a starting point.

That first source says "Usually, Curaçaos and Triple Secs are based on sugar cane alcohol and around 40% abv." This sort of raises the question of whether a "sugar cane alcohol" is necessarily a rum. I suppose not, but I also suppose it could be. Presentation says this about Ferrand curacao: "Crafted in consultation with cocktail historian David Wondrich and based on a 19th century recipe, it is a traditional French “triple sec” – thee separate distillations of spices and the “sec” or bitter, peels of Curacao oranges blended with brandy and Ferrand Cognac." I found this, too: "To make their Dry Curaçao, Ferrand macerates Laraha peel along with small amounts of lemon and sweet oranges in unaged brandy. This infusion is then distilled and blended with Ferrand cognac and aged in oak casks along with additional Curaçao orange peel and a small dose of other spices."

So the plot thickens, and apparently the Ferrand curacao is not as pure an orange as Cointreau (and/or perhaps other curacaos/triple secs/ orange liqueurs), and has flavor elements aside from orange from botanicals (spices) and brandy (cognac). Apparently a Huffington Post review talks about it being an orangier Gran Marnier. I was just thinking of it as bigger an orangier, more complex and intense Cointreau. I do not see this Ferrand curacao as nearly as brandy forward as Gran Marnier and it is not nearly as sweet. However, I did not realize I was adding something with brandy/cognac content to an XO cognac. That bothers me a bit.

Apparently over the decades Cointreau has put on its label at various time that it is a curacao and a triple sec, but it is apparently not a true curacao because it uses material from three different types of oranges rather than just from the peels of Laraha oranges of the island of Curacao.

Here is a good review of the Ferrand. Pierre Ferrand Dry Curacao This indicates that the Ferrand is intended to be just like curacaos from back in the day and is intentionally designed for classic cocktails.

Interesting re cardamom and coriander in the lime cordial. I do not know about the former, but I bet the latter is showing up in a forward manner in some modern artisanal gins.

Fun stuff!

 

[Rory1262]

The Seelbach is a superb champagne cocktail from the Louisville hotel of that name. I have found just one bartender ever who knew how to make it without my instruction.