Organic Coffee/Fair Trade Coffee?

[3am Shadow]

Hello all.
I am not a big coffee drinker. However, I was recently gifted some OrganoGold coffee. Tried the mocha blend and I loved it. It has all these claims of health benefits and what not. I have a few questions for those in the know:
1) Are any of these claims true?
2) Price for one box (15 sachets) was 30 bucks. Is that a bit much?
3) Cheaper alternative with same health benefits?

When I tried researching this company, the word scam kept popping up, so it's scaring me off.

Thanks for your time!
Cheers!

 

[Jasonian]

It's a pyramid scheme. They aren't selling coffee, they're selling fungus. If you want fungus in your coffee, there's no reason to pay for the support of a pyramid to get it.

However, the title is a bit misleading. What does this have to do with organic or fair trade certification in coffee?

 

[3am Shadow]

This stuff made me start researching organic coffee. I was wondering what people's thoughts were on that. I was unaware that it was a fungus drink. Feel kind of weird now.

Anyway, every time I searched for organic coffee, fair trade would also pop up. There isn't too much info. It just seemed like all ads peppered with reviews here and there. I was hoping you guys could point me in the right direction? Is it worth the money? Are there actual health benefits? Does it taste better? Should I be looking for a particular brand or label? I was aware that organogold had low acidity, is there a coffee like that?

I'm supposing I should put these questions in my opening post, huh?

 

[StillShaving]

I have not tried OrganoGold but based on your comments here and a look an Amazon sales posting the coffee looks like a gimmick. Personally, for the claimed health benefits, I would be looking to get those mushrooms in my diet or take a multivitamin.

Are you looking for instant coffee? If so I would be more inclined to compare OrganoGold against Starbucks Via or any of the other single packet coffees. You may like those alternatives just as much or better.

Organic and fair trade coffee are related in that many of the smaller farms (at least those not at an industrial scale that would remind you of a cornfield in Iowa) are owned and operated by families that strive to produce a quality and sustainable product. Where their more traditional agriculture practices leans toward organic by default, and the quality of their produce means they are able to command a slightly higher "fair" price that can sustain the farm and their lives. Coffee lovers are motivated to support these farmers in times of over production (and downward pricing pressure) so that the cycle of good coffee can continue.

 

[Jasonian]

Organic and fair trade coffee are related in that many of the smaller farms (at least those not at an industrial scale that would remind you of a cornfield in Iowa) are owned and operated by families that strive to produce a quality and sustainable product. Where their more traditional agriculture practices leans toward organic by default, and the quality of their produce means they are able to command a slightly higher "fair" price that can sustain the farm and their lives. Coffee lovers are motivated to support these farmers in times of over production (and downward pricing pressure) so that the cycle of good coffee can continue.

I honestly have no idea what you just said.

1: small farms cannot be Fair Trade certified; only cooperatives can. It's also a structure for commodities like cotton, not specialty products like specialty coffee. What it does is maintain a consistent price point, regardless of the way the C-market swings. This means that when the market swings down, income isn't effected. It also means that when markets swing up, they aren't paid more. Specialty Coffee practices are, on average, more fair than Fair Trade.

2: organic certification is expensive, and takes a few years. Most small farms cannot afford it. Most small farms also cannot afford chemical fertilizer, chemical pesticides, or anything else that would make it not organic, in spite of its lack of certification.

So, what to do? What we do. Make sure the coffee is sustainably grown, and that the farmers and workers are compensated adequately (in this case, "adequate" is actually beyond Fair Trade wages). It is literally the only fair and sustainable way to be a coffee consumer. It's inconvenient, and goes against the American culture of living well at the expense of others, but it's what we believe is right.

 

[StillShaving]

I honestly have no idea what you just said.

1: small farms cannot be Fair Trade certified; only cooperatives can. It's also a structure for commodities like cotton, not specialty products like specialty coffee. What it does is maintain a consistent price point, regardless of the way the C-market swings. This means that when the market swings down, income isn't effected. It also means that when markets swing up, they aren't paid more. Specialty Coffee practices are, on average, more fair than Fair Trade.

2: organic certification is expensive, and takes a few years. Most small farms cannot afford it. Most small farms also cannot afford chemical fertilizer, chemical pesticides, or anything else that would make it not organic, in spite of its lack of certification.

So, what to do? What we do. Make sure the coffee is sustainably grown, and that the farmers and workers are compensated adequately (in this case, "adequate" is actually beyond Fair Trade wages). It is literally the only fair and sustainable way to be a coffee consumer. It's inconvenient, and goes against the American culture of living well at the expense of others, but it's what we believe is right.

I may have been blowing smoke or misdirected about proper use of terms. My statement was about these small farms one might learn about from artisan coffee roasters seeking to provide coffee that is under the radar of Nescafe or Starbucks due to their size. Like a farm one might see written up on Sweet Maria's, a business article, or a country such as Indonesia. I have lost track of interesting blog postings that I have read over the years showing small village operators processing their coffee, giving the impression there was a high correlation between small scale, sustainability, organic, and quality. Where the farmer could often command a price above the pure commodity price, since what was being produced was no longer a commodity product. But I am interested in your perspective on these small operators that independent roasters or coffee co-ops often source coffee from. Whether any generalizations can be made.

Much of the coffee I have bought may be good marketing and instead these farms are more industrial scale using a Oxbo 9200 coffee harvester, but that is not the image in my mind.

 

[OldSaw]

I may be way off base here, but in my mind, fair trade simply means a bunch of people are getting a higher price while you pay more so you can feel better about yourself and no one really knows for sure whether or not Juan Valdez (remember him?) is getting a bigger (more fair?) paycheck. I don't believe that everyone in the supply chain are so eager to pass on all that extra coin to the family picking the beans without sticking some in their own pocket.

What's wrong with simple supply and demand? Let the market determine the value.

This whole scheme reminds me of when my power company sent me a letter asking me if I wanted to participate in a "green energy" program. In a nutshell, what they really meant was, will you voluntarily pay higher rates to help pay for less efficient means of producing electricity, so you can feel better about yourself.

 

[Kazeryu]

My 2 cents:

I have lost track of interesting blog postings that I have read over the years showing small village operators processing their coffee, giving the impression there was a high correlation between small scale, sustainability, organic, and quality.

This is likely to be true in many cases, but not for the reasons that some people attribute to it. Consider - a small farmer has to be "sustainable" to some extent or else his land (and livelihood) disappears. He can't buy more land or move somewhere else - that's all he has. And as Jasonian pointed out, small farmers are unlikely to be able to afford designer crops and pesticides and are probably "organic" in the technical sense by default rather than by choice.

Where the farmer could often command a price above the pure commodity price, since what was being produced was no longer a commodity product.

And how does the farmer get his product to this wonderful non-commodity market where he can be richly rewarded with cash? Well, he doesn't. Because he's a small farmer and he doesn't have time for that. So he sells it to some other guy who handles the distribution, and the farmer probably never knows what his coffee actually sells for. I think that's the truth of most operations which aren't lucky enough to live in some famous valley or mountain.


(This isn't really a story specific to coffee, but rather the global economy.)

 

[jzuzphreek]

I honestly have no idea what you just said.

1: small farms cannot be Fair Trade certified; only cooperatives can. It's also a structure for commodities like cotton, not specialty products like specialty coffee. What it does is maintain a consistent price point, regardless of the way the C-market swings. This means that when the market swings down, income isn't effected. It also means that when markets swing up, they aren't paid more. Specialty Coffee practices are, on average, more fair than Fair Trade.

2: organic certification is expensive, and takes a few years. Most small farms cannot afford it. Most small farms also cannot afford chemical fertilizer, chemical pesticides, or anything else that would make it not organic, in spite of its lack of certification.

So, what to do? What we do. Make sure the coffee is sustainably grown, and that the farmers and workers are compensated adequately (in this case, "adequate" is actually beyond Fair Trade wages). It is literally the only fair and sustainable way to be a coffee consumer. It's inconvenient, and goes against the American culture of living well at the expense of others, but it's what we believe is right.

I may be way off base here, but in my mind, fair trade simply means a bunch of people are getting a higher price while you pay more so you can feel better about yourself and no one really knows for sure whether or not Juan Valdez (remember him?) is getting a bigger (more fair?) paycheck. I don't believe that everyone in the supply chain are so eager to pass on all that extra coin to the family picking the beans without sticking some in their own pocket.

What's wrong with simple supply and demand? Let the market determine the value.

This whole scheme reminds me of when my power company sent me a letter asking me if I wanted to participate in a "green energy" program. In a nutshell, what they really meant was, will you voluntarily pay higher rates to help pay for less efficient means of producing electricity, so you can feel better about yourself.

Dennis, both of you guys summed it up pretty well. Like most organizations with good intentions, most of the money just goes to Administrative Overhead, and NOT to the people the help is intended for. Much more is being done by specialty roasters today on an individual basis than Fair Trade EVER has done or will do. The problem is that there are relatively few of them, and relatively MANY poor coffee farmers/people dependent on coffee farms.

 

[Commander Quan]

This is a good article on the negative aspects of Fair Trade

http://opinion.financialpost.com/20...r-trade-coffee-producers-often-end-up-poorer/

 

[StillShaving]

This is a good article on the negative aspects of Fair Trade

http://opinion.financialpost.com/20...r-trade-coffee-producers-often-end-up-poorer/

Interesting article and not so surprising that some of the certifications serve more as a barrier than an enabler. I might be naive, but I would like to trust the likes of our own Jasonian, Tom of Sweet Maria's, or my local independent roaster/coffee-nut who has trustworthy feelers out to independent growers rather than go by what some certification board says in some (corrupt) (2nd/3rd world) remote country. Not saying I expect all coffee roasters to have such intimate knowledge of their sources, and its impossible to a point anyway, but that that type of produce is more appealing than the generic equivalent.

 

[jzuzphreek]

Interesting article and not so surprising that some of the certifications serve more as a barrier than an enabler. I might be naive, but I would like to trust the likes of our own Jasonian, Tom of Sweet Maria's, or my local independent roaster/coffee-nut who has trustworthy feelers out to independent growers rather than go by what some certification board says in some (corrupt) (2nd/3rd world) remote country. Not saying I expect all coffee roasters to have such intimate knowledge of their sources, and its impossible to a point anyway, but that that type of produce is more appealing than the generic equivalent.

+1

I'm in the middle of a 3 month SO subscription my wife bought me for V-day. But when that's over, I plan on trying Jasonian's offerings. Fortunately, SOAD (Single Origin Acquisition Disorder) is one AD my wife fully supports. Of course, it benefits her as well as me.