Optimum Lather Table with Soap/Cream and Water Masses

[ShavingByTheNumbers]

Introduction

With enough experience, traditional shavers become used to "dialing in" shaving soaps and creams, but this experience is never truly expressed quantitatively. Mass measurements can help the individual quantify the optimum lather composition of soap/cream and water that works best for him for each particular soap/cream. The optimum lather for each particular soap/cream can then be easily and consistently reproduced for better shaves. Further, optimum lathers can then be compared to one another so as to fairly rank soaps and creams and possibly discern patterns regarding favorable and irritating ingredients. Optimum lathers for one person may not be identical to those for another person. However, a table of one person's ranked optimum lathers could provide help to others, especially for those who would like to know how certain soaps and creams behave relative to other soaps and creams and for those who might have less experience "dialing in" soaps and creams.

This thread is for my optimum lather table, which includes optimum water-to-soap/cream ratios and total lather masses. I want to figure out what works best for me, and I like the idea of making the right amount of lather with the right amount of water. Whenever I finish evaluating a soap or cream, I will add its ranked optimum lather data to the table and provide relevant notes. Effectively, updates will serve as reviews for added soaps and creams. Updates are expected to be mostly for soaps, which explains the placement of this thread.

Building Exact Lather

On April 19th, I wrote about my method of building exact lather, which involves directly measuring shaving soap/cream and water masses in a lathering bowl (link), and since April 21st, I've been making exact lather with a synthetic brush, which allows me to "accurately create the exact lather that I want, consistent with calculations" (link). Before building an exact lather, I open an electronic spreadsheet with tabulated records for each shave and I read how much soap/cream mass and water mass should be measured. Equipment is gathered for measuring the soap/cream and water masses. An example of this setup is pictured below.



The 0.1 g resolution scale is turned on, the lathering bowl is placed on the scale's platform, and the mass reading is allowed to settle:



A spoon is used to scoop up some soap/cream:



The scale is then tared for a zero reading:



The lathering bowl is picked up and, using a finger, soap/cream is transferred from the spoon and spread around the inside bottom of the bowl. The bowl is placed back onto the scale and soap/cream is added and/or scraped up until the desired mass of soap/cream is achieved:



Remaining soap/cream on the spoon is transferred back into the soap/cream container and the scale is tared before adding any water:



The desired mass of room-temperature water is then added using a plastic bottle that has a cap which allows for water drops to be added in larger quantities, with larger shakes of the bottle, or in smaller drops, with lighter movements of the bottle:



Currently, the water being used is filtered, moderately hard (~95 mg/L) tap water. It seems reasonable here to use fairly average water, as opposed to distilled (~2.5 mg/L), soft (≤60 mg/L), or very hard (>180 mg/L) water.

With the lather ingredients measured, I set the lathering bowl next to the sink:



I put away the scale, the soap/cream container, and the water bottle, and then at the sink, I rinse off the spoon and finger that were used to place soap/cream into the lathering bowl. The spoon is dried and put away and my hands become dry enough in the process. Cleanup here with respect to soaps is easier than when I used to load my brush directly from soap jars.

After wetting my face, I use a dry synthetic brush to build the lather in the lathering bowl. The synthetic-hair brush ensures that water is neither added to nor taken from the lather, which would happen with a natural-hair brush. Care is taken to avoid losing anything from, or adding water into, the lathering bowl at this point. A few times during the lather-building process, the brush is scraped against the edge of the bowl in order to better incorporate the lather from the inside of the brush:



Lather building continues with swirling and back-and-forth motions until equilibrium is reached:

Finding Optimum Lather

With the lather built, it is then time for the shave. The shave is accomplished with three passes that all include blade buffing, so the pace is believed to be slower than average. A smooth chrome-plated DE safety razor is currently used with agreeable blades and blade exposures. Before each pass, I rinse my face with room-temperature or lukewarm water, but I take extra time to wipe away excess water in order to minimize alterations to the lather when it is applied to my face. Lather is applied as uniformly and consistently as possible for each pass, shave, and soap/cream so as to fairly evaluate the right amount of lather needed for each soap/cream. To this end, for the third and final pass, lather from inside the brush is used as much as possible in order to effectively eliminate the influence of the brush on total mass. It is known at this point whether the amount of lather is too little, good, or too much. By the end of the shave, notes on performance have been taken mentally, as well.

After the shave, I rinse my face and currently apply a homemade toner. The brush and bowl are thoroughly rinsed together, with excess water really flung/shaken out of the brush, and then the bowl is put away, the brush handle is dried with a clean towel, and the brush is put back in its spot to dry for the next shave. Finally, my regular post-shave balm is applied to the face and I moisturize my hands as normal. After a reasonable amount of time has passed, the post-shave is evaluated.

Notes on the total mass, lather quality, slickness, cushion, and post-shave are recorded in the electronic spreadsheet of tabulated lather compositions. Based on the results, I make a decision on the masses of soap/cream and water so as to yield the desired total mass and water-to-soap/cream ratio for the next day's shave. Water-to-soap/cream ratio is optimized to the nearest 0.5 value while total mass is simultaneously optimized as precisely as can be accomplished by varying soap/cream and water masses from day to day. As the number of shaves with a soap/cream increases, the optimum lather is approached, and once the optimum has been found, it can be compared to optimum lathers for other soaps and creams through sequential shaves in order to help rank the soap/cream that has just been optimized. Revisiting optimums may lead to adjustments on them. For example, the total mass could be increased or decreased while maintaining the water-to-soap/cream ratio. After ranking has occurred, the optimization cycle begins for the next soap/cream.

Optimum Lather Table

Here is the current version of the optimum lather table:

Performance Ranking	Soap/Cream	Soap/Cream Mass (g)	Water Mass (g)	Total Mass (g)	Water-to-Soap/Cream Ratio

There are no soaps or creams listed yet, but I have evaluated a few soaps over the past few months and I will add them to the table with individual updates to this thread. Updates after that are expected to be less frequent, given the time it takes to thoroughly evaluate a soap/cream.

Feedback

Please, feel free to provide feedback as the optimum lather table develops. Interesting discussions are always welcome.

 

[redslayer8585]

This is awesome! By far the most scientific approach to lathering I've ever seen. I'm the guy who loads like a maniac and adjusts the water content to taste. I never thought about the optimal amounts of soap and water. Well done sir!

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[ShavingByTheNumbers]

This is awesome! By far the most scientific approach to lathering I've ever seen. I'm the guy who loads like a maniac and adjusts the water content to taste. I never thought about the optimal amounts of soap and water. Well done sir!

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Wow! Thanks! I'm glad that you really like it and it gives you something new to think about. That's what I was going for. I used to load like a maniac, too, back when I made lather that was too thick and not very slick. (It wasn't until I got some help here that I learned to add more water and make better lather.) The exact lathering method has taken away frustration and made lathering easier for me. It's not for everyone, maybe it's only for a few, but at least it works for me. For those that don't like the idea of measuring mass to make optimum lather, I hope that they can find value in the rankings and evaluations. Hopefully, my findings of which soaps make richer lathers---have higher total mass---and which soaps are "thirstier"---have higher water-to-soap/cream ratios---will generally fit with what others have found. That would somewhat validate my table.

 

[ShavingByTheNumbers]

1st Addition: Stirling Soap Co. Naked & Smooth Shave Soap

(Picture shows open jar with about 2 oz. of soap instead of original 5.8 oz. of soap)

Ingredients: Beef Tallow, Stearic Acid, Distilled Water, Castor Oil, Potassium Hydroxide, Vegetable Glycerin, Almond Oil, Shea Butter, Coconut Milk, Lanolin, Sodium Hydroxide, Sodium Lactate

Container: The green plastic jar has an inside diameter at the top of about 3.70 in., and the inside diameter decreases toward the bottom of the jar. The outside diameter of the jar is about 4.05 in. and the outside diameter of the screw-on green plastic cap is only a little larger. The initial space between the top of the soap and the top of the jar is roughly 3/8 in. The jar has a rectangular water-resistant label with an ingredients list wrapped around the side, while the cap has a water-resistant circular label on top. (The container is a green model of the same Parkway Plastics Inc. container used by Barrister & Mann.)

Color: Light yellow

Scent: Slight and inoffensive

Hardness: Soft

Exact Lather Results: Daily shaves were conducted from July 24, 2017, to August 11, 2017, with total mass ranging from 9.6 g to 12.0 g and water-to-soap ratio ranging from 7 to 10. With increasing water-to-soap ratio from 7 to 10, slickness increased from "good to very good" to "very good", cushion decreased from good to okay, and post-shave decreased while generally being on the dry side. At a water-to-soap ratio of 7, there was some bad friction near the end of the second pass and the lather seemed to be on the drier side by the end of the third pass. At a water-to-soap ratio of 10, the lather seemed too aerated and did not cling to the skin as with lower water-to-soap ratios. Optimization narrowed down to deciding between water-to-soap ratios of 8.5 and 9, with a water-to-soap ratio of 9 being picked as best due to less friction near the end of passes. The optimal total mass was found to be around 11 g to 12 g, with 9.6 g being found as not enough and 10.5 g and 10.8 g seeming good, but leaving me wanting a little more. The settled optimum of 12 g was generally considered good, though possibly a little large, so the optimum might be decreased in the future upon reexamination.

Optimum Lather Table

Performance Ranking	Soap/Cream	Soap/Cream Mass (g)	Water Mass (g)	Total Mass (g)	Water-to-Soap/Cream Ratio
1	Stirling Soap Co. Naked & Smooth Shave Soap	1.2	10.8	12.0	9.00

General Notes:

• Soap/cream and moderately hard water masses were directly measured in a smooth lathering bowl, using a 0.1 g resolution scale, and lather was built using a dry synthetic brush, so as to make exact lather as documented on August 27, 2017
• Based on slower three-pass shaves with blade buffing using a smooth chrome-plated DE safety razor and agreeable blades and blade exposures, water-to-soap/cream ratio was optimized to the nearest 0.5 value while total mass was simultaneously optimized as precisely as could be accomplished by varying soap/cream and water masses from day to day. Lather from inside the brush was used as much as possible in order to effectively eliminate the influence of the brush on total mass.
• Rankings were aided by revisiting previously determined optimums and comparing optimum lathers in sequential shaves
• The table is sortable such that clicking on a column heading sorts the rows according to that column's data, and clicking on the column heading again reverses the sorting order

Ranking Notes:

1. Stirling Soap Co. Naked & Smooth Shave Soap: Lather takes time to build up, developing into a lighter lather with a smooth consistency and a nice sheen. Slickness is mostly very good, but there is typically some friction near the end of passes. Cushion is okay, but lather lightness prevents cushion from being good. Post-shave is pretty good, but on the dry side.

 

[BigJ]

Interesting approach! I face lather, so very difficult to quantify what I do.

 

[ouch]

"Well, Prince, so Genoa and Lucca are now just family estates of the
Buonapartes. But I warn you, if you don't tell me that this means war,
if you still try to defend the infamies and horrors perpetrated by
that Antichrist- I really believe he is Antichrist- I will have
nothing more to do with you and you are no longer my friend, no longer
my 'faithful slave,' as you call yourself! But how do you do? I see
I have frightened you- sit down and tell me all the news."

It was in July, 1805, and the speaker was the well-known Anna
Pavlovna Scherer, maid of honor and favorite of the Empress Marya
Fedorovna. With these words she greeted Prince Vasili Kuragin, a man
of high rank and importance, who was the first to arrive at her
reception. Anna Pavlovna had had a cough for some days. She was, as
she said, suffering from la grippe; grippe being then a new word in
St. Petersburg, used only by the elite.

All her invitations without exception, written in French, and
delivered by a scarlet-liveried footman that morning, ran as follows:

"If you have nothing better to do, Count [or Prince], and if the
prospect of spending an evening with a poor invalid is not too
terrible, I shall be very charmed to see you tonight between 7 and 10-
Annette Scherer."

"Heavens! what a virulent attack!" replied the prince, not in the
least disconcerted by this reception. He had just entered, wearing
an embroidered court uniform, knee breeches, and shoes, and had
stars on his breast and a serene expression on his flat face. He spoke
in that refined French in which our grandfathers not only spoke but
thought, and with the gentle, patronizing intonation natural to a
man of importance who had grown old in society and at court. He went
up to Anna Pavlovna, kissed her hand, presenting to her his bald,
scented, and shining head, and complacently seated himself on the
sofa.

"First of all, dear friend, tell me how you are. Set your friend's
mind at rest," said he without altering his tone, beneath the
politeness and affected sympathy of which indifference and even
irony could be discerned.

"Can one be well while suffering morally? Can one be calm in times
like these if one has any feeling?" said Anna Pavlovna. "You are
staying the whole evening, I hope?"

"And the fete at the English ambassador's? Today is Wednesday. I
must put in an appearance there," said the prince. "My daughter is
coming for me to take me there."

"I thought today's fete had been canceled. I confess all these
festivities and fireworks are becoming wearisome."

"If they had known that you wished it, the entertainment would
have been put off," said the prince, who, like a wound-up clock, by
force of habit said things he did not even wish to be believed.

"Don't tease! Well, and what has been decided about Novosiltsev's
dispatch? You know everything."

"What can one say about it?" replied the prince in a cold,
listless tone. "What has been decided? They have decided that
Buonaparte has burnt his boats, and I believe that we are ready to
burn ours."

Prince Vasili always spoke languidly, like an actor repeating a
stale part. Anna Pavlovna Scherer on the contrary, despite her forty
years, overflowed with animation and impulsiveness. To be an
enthusiast had become her social vocation and, sometimes even when she
did not feel like it, she became enthusiastic in order not to
disappoint the expectations of those who knew her. The subdued smile
which, though it did not suit her faded features, always played
round her lips expressed, as in a spoiled child, a continual
consciousness of her charming defect, which she neither wished, nor
could, nor considered it necessary, to correct.

In the midst of a conversation on political matters Anna Pavlovna
burst out:

"Oh, don't speak to me of Austria. Perhaps I don't understand
things, but Austria never has wished, and does not wish, for war.
She is betraying us! Russia alone must save Europe. Our gracious
sovereign recognizes his high vocation and will be true to it. That is
the one thing I have faith in! Our good and wonderful sovereign has to
perform the noblest role on earth, and he is so virtuous and noble
that God will not forsake him. He will fulfill his vocation and
crush the hydra of revolution, which has become more terrible than
ever in the person of this murderer and villain! We alone must
avenge the blood of the just one.... Whom, I ask you, can we rely
on?... England with her commercial spirit will not and cannot
understand the Emperor Alexander's loftiness of soul. She has
refused to evacuate Malta. She wanted to find, and still seeks, some
secret motive in our actions. What answer did Novosiltsev get? None.
The English have not understood and cannot understand the
self-abnegation of our Emperor who wants nothing for himself, but only
desires the good of mankind. And what have they promised? Nothing! And
what little they have promised they will not perform! Prussia has
always declared that Buonaparte is invincible, and that all Europe
is powerless before him.... And I don't believe a word that Hardenburg
says, or Haugwitz either. This famous Prussian neutrality is just a
trap. I have faith only in God and the lofty destiny of our adored
monarch. He will save Europe!"

She suddenly paused, smiling at her own impetuosity.

"I think," said the prince with a smile, "that if you had been
sent instead of our dear Wintzingerode you would have captured the
King of Prussia's consent by assault. You are so eloquent. Will you
give me a cup of tea?"

"In a moment. A propos," she added, becoming calm again, "I am
expecting two very interesting men tonight, le Vicomte de Mortemart,
who is connected with the Montmorencys through the Rohans, one of
the best French families. He is one of the genuine emigres, the good
ones. And also the Abbe Morio. Do you know that profound thinker? He
has been received by the Emperor. Had you heard?"

"I shall be delighted to meet them," said the prince. "But tell me,"
he added with studied carelessness as if it had only just occurred
to him, though the question he was about to ask was the chief motive
of his visit, "is it true that the Dowager Empress wants Baron Funke
to be appointed first secretary at Vienna? The baron by all accounts
is a poor creature."

Prince Vasili wished to obtain this post for his son, but others
were trying through the Dowager Empress Marya Fedorovna to secure it
for the baron.

Anna Pavlovna almost closed her eyes to indicate that neither she
nor anyone else had a right to criticize what the Empress desired or
was pleased with.

"Baron Funke has been recommended to the Dowager Empress by her
sister," was all she said, in a dry and mournful tone.

As she named the Empress, Anna Pavlovna's face suddenly assumed an
expression of profound and sincere devotion and respect mingled with
sadness, and this occurred every time she mentioned her illustrious
patroness. She added that Her Majesty had deigned to show Baron
Funke beaucoup d'estime, and again her face clouded over with sadness.

The prince was silent and looked indifferent. But, with the
womanly and courtierlike quickness and tact habitual to her, Anna
Pavlovna wished both to rebuke him (for daring to speak he had done of
a man recommended to the Empress) and at the same time to console him,
so she said:

"Now about your family. Do you know that since your daughter came
out everyone has been enraptured by her? They say she is amazingly
beautiful."

The prince bowed to signify his respect and gratitude.

"I often think," she continued after a short pause, drawing nearer
to the prince and smiling amiably at him as if to show that
political and social topics were ended and the time had come for
intimate conversation- "I often think how unfairly sometimes the
joys of life are distributed. Why has fate given you two such splendid
children? I don't speak of Anatole, your youngest. I don't like
him," she added in a tone admitting of no rejoinder and raising her
eyebrows. "Two such charming children. And really you appreciate
them less than anyone, and so you don't deserve to have them."

And she smiled her ecstatic smile.

"I can't help it," said the prince. "Lavater would have said I
lack the bump of paternity."

"Don't joke; I mean to have a serious talk with you. Do you know I
am dissatisfied with your younger son? Between ourselves" (and her
face assumed its melancholy expression), "he was mentioned at Her
Majesty's and you were pitied...."

The prince answered nothing, but she looked at him significantly,
awaiting a reply. He frowned.

"What would you have me do?" he said at last. "You know I did all
a father could for their education, and they have both turned out
fools. Hippolyte is at least a quiet fool, but Anatole is an active
one. That is the only difference between them." He said this smiling
in a way more natural and animated than usual, so that the wrinkles
round his mouth very clearly revealed something unexpectedly coarse
and unpleasant.

"And why are children born to such men as you? If you were not a
father there would be nothing I could reproach you with," said Anna
Pavlovna, looking up pensively.

"I am your faithful slave and to you alone I can confess that my
children are the bane of my life. It is the cross I have to bear. That
is how I explain it to myself. It can't be helped!"

He said no more, but expressed his resignation to cruel fate by a
gesture. Anna Pavlovna meditated.

"Have you never thought of marrying your prodigal son Anatole?"
she asked. "They say old maids have a mania for matchmaking, and
though I don't feel that weakness in myself as yet,I know a little
person who is very unhappy with her father. She is a relation of
yours, Princess Mary Bolkonskaya."

Prince Vasili did not reply, though, with the quickness of memory
and perception befitting a man of the world, he indicated by a
movement of the head that he was considering this information.

"Do you know," he said at last, evidently unable to check the sad
current of his thoughts, "that Anatole is costing me forty thousand
rubles a year? And," he went on after a pause, "what will it be in
five years, if he goes on like this?" Presently he added: "That's what
we fathers have to put up with.... Is this princess of yours rich?"

"Her father is very rich and stingy. He lives in the country. He
is the well-known Prince Bolkonski who had to retire from the army
under the late Emperor, and was nicknamed 'the King of Prussia.' He is
very clever but eccentric, and a bore. The poor girl is very
unhappy. She has a brother; I think you know him, he married Lise
Meinen lately. He is an aide-de-camp of Kutuzov's and will be here
tonight."

"Listen, dear Annette," said the prince, suddenly taking Anna
Pavlovna's hand and for some reason drawing it downwards. "Arrange
that affair for me and I shall always be your most devoted slave-
slafe wigh an f, as a village elder of mine writes in his reports. She
is rich and of good family and that's all I want."

And with the familiarity and easy grace peculiar to him, he raised
the maid of honor's hand to his lips, kissed it, and swung it to and
fro as he lay back in his armchair, looking in another direction.

"Attendez," said Anna Pavlovna, reflecting, "I'll speak to Lise,
young Bolkonski's wife, this very evening, and perhaps the thing can
be arranged. It shall be on your family's behalf that I'll start my
apprenticeship as old maid."

 

[ShavingByTheNumbers]

Interesting approach! I face lather, so very difficult to quantify what I do.

You're right. Face lathering is a different story. Still, I think that it's possible to make an approximately exact lather or approximate the resulting lather while face lathering. The mass of soap loaded into the synthetic brush could be exactly measured or approximately measured and the mass of water used could be limited to water from the water bottle, as with my method for exact bowl lathering. If targeting a specific lather, then mass measurements could be made during lather building in order to get the right amount of loaded soap and added water. Otherwise, mass measurements of the soap jar and water bottle could be made after the fact and compared to initial mass measurements in order to calculate the resulting lather composition. No matter what, the brush would still have to be synthetic if the lather calculations are desired to accurately represent reality, but inaccurate calculations for lathers made with a natural brush could at least be consistent.

 

[ShavingByTheNumbers]

. . . between 7 and 10 . . .

Ha, ha.

 

[qVAMPIREp]

A few problems: 1) The water content of each soap changes dramatically over time (Worse for croaps) and the pucks shrink making more soap per gram; 3) Relative humidity is constantly changing which impacts how quickly the lather dries out on your face.

 

[bberg100]

And differing water qualities change the ratios required....

 

[ShavingByTheNumbers]

And differing water qualities change the ratios required....

That may be true, even though I'm doubtful, but I did address the reasonableness in using average "moderately hard" tap water. Distilled water would provide more control, but it wouldn't be normal. The most important thing is that the same water is used among the different soaps so that relative comparisons can be made.

 

[Glaze3]

It's only shaving.

 

[ShavingByTheNumbers]

A few problems: 1) The water content of each soap changes dramatically over time (Worse for croaps) and the pucks shrink making more soap per gram; 3) Relative humidity is constantly changing which impacts how quickly the lather dries out on your face. Basically, you are wasting your time but hey it's your time to blow.

Thanks for the feedback. I'll try and address your concerns:

1. I haven't noticed any shrinkage or dehydrating of the soaps that I bought, let alone any dramatic changes which would have been very noticeable. I have hard to very soft soaps, but I don't have any creams yet. I'm evaluating these soaps within reasonable periods since purchase, not letting them sit for years. Creams, in particular, should be evaluated within a reasonable time, since they are more prone to drying out. You are right that water loss would affect results, and I'm trying to avoid that problem. Theoretically, soap/cream dehydration should have little to no effect on the optimum total mass, but the optimum water-to-soap/cream ratio would be distorted.

2. Humidity does affect the rate of drying, with lower humidity causing a higher rate of drying. Seasonal changes affect skin, too, with more or less drying of the skin, which can affect soap performance perception. Shave prep and other variables are involved, too, in shaping our determinations of which soaps we like more than others. The drying of lather has not been an issue, though. Earlier on, I thought about it, but it hasn't been an issue at all over the past few months, so I forgot to address lather drying in the OP. From the first pass to the third pass, I usually don't notice a difference in lather quality or performance. Lathers appear fairly consistent. Based on results after a few months of exact lather building, I can state that I've yet to experience a lather start with one performance and significantly shift in performance by the end of the shave. My bowl lathers behave consistently from passes one to three, and I'm shaving slower than the average guy. Lather quality is reproduced with mass measurements, and shave quality follows accordingly. It's all repeatable. Nevertheless, I suppose that I could do some testing on how a bowl of lather dries in time. It would depend on humidity, of course. I'm thinking that the slight drop in water with lather drying is compensated with the slight increase in water from the face due to rinsing, but this is just conjecture. It is possible that I might notice an issue during the winter when the humidity is low, which could cause some noticeable drying and an increase in optimum water-to-soap ratios. Maybe I'd eventually start recording humidity and figure out how to compensate for humidity when making a soap's optimum lather under different humidity conditions. I hope it doesn't come to that! In any event, I anticipate changes in determined optimums as I revisit optimums when comparing soaps for ranking purposes. Any changes to the optimum lather table will be noted.

 

[kingfisher]

Not my style, but I applaud the effort.

 

[ShavingByTheNumbers]

Not my style, but I applaud the effort.

Thanks, Randall. Stay tuned for updates.

 

[G.W.]

That's a lot of work, thank you for taking the time. I have more of a "fast and loose" approach to building lather for myself, but this has me thinking that for the new folks that just can't seem to get it down, if you can lay down specific numbers as a way to get them started, then you may be on to something really useful here.

 

[ShavingByTheNumbers]

That's a lot of work, thank you for taking the time. I have more of a "fast and loose" approach to building lather for myself, but this has me thinking that for the new folks that just can't seem to get it down, if you can lay down specific numbers as a way to get them started, then you may be on to something really useful here.

Thanks, Glenn. I was thinking the same thing. My table can be a starting point or a guide. Even for those that don't want to measure mass, seeing in the table that one soap seems to want more water than another might be helpful.

 

[sandstone]

That's a lot of work, thank you for taking the time. I have more of a "fast and loose" approach to building lather for myself, but this has me thinking that for the new folks that just can't seem to get it down, if you can lay down specific numbers as a way to get them started, then you may be on to something really useful here.

+1...I remember having a LOT of frustration making lather when I started out and this would have been a much better way of getting started than my own hit and miss (mostly miss) approach. Thanks for your effort!

 

[ShavingByTheNumbers]

+1...I remember having a LOT of frustration making lather when I started out and this would have been a much better way of getting started than my own hit and miss (mostly miss) approach. Thanks for your effort!

Thanks! I appreciate it. I'm with you on the frustration of making good lather when starting out. Even after I thought that I knew what I was doing, it wasn't until I switched from the PAA DOC to the EJ Kelvin that, with the helpful advice here, I learned that I was making lather with too little water. I want thick and rich lather, and despite my issues with the PAA DOC, it was able to compensate for my lack of lathering skill. That was a good lesson, which is why I make it a point to state with the optimum lather table that the optimums are based on using a smooth chrome-plated razor. Ever since I started making exact lathers with mass measurements, I've become really aware of how lather changes with water, and I've become really attuned to slickness and so on in order to evaluate lathers. The optimization process is fulfilling and has worked well for me. How could I keep it to myself?

 

[sandstone]

Thanks! I appreciate it. I'm with you on the frustration of making good lather when starting out. Even after I thought that I knew what I was doing, it wasn't until I switched from the PAA DOC to the EJ Kelvin that, with the helpful advice here, I learned that I was making lather with too little water. I want thick and rich lather, and despite my issues with the PAA DOC, it was able to compensate for my lack of lathering skill. That was a good lesson, which is why I make it a point to state with the optimum lather table that the optimums are based on using a smooth chrome-plated razor. Ever since I started making exact lathers with mass measurements, I've become really aware of how lather changes with water, and I've become really attuned to slickness and so on in order to evaluate lathers. The optimization process is fulfilling and has worked well for me. How could I keep it to myself?

You're welcome! As it turned out, too little water was my chief problem when I started out, and I was baffled for a long time. I finally figured it out after a lot of trial and error.