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One stone Hard Ark 'Progression'

duke762

Rose to the occasion
Wasn't this how SRs were sharpened in the old days when shavers had just one natural stone before the trend to stone progression and before the advent of synthetics?

I don't think they had a reliable method to slurry a Trans Ark in the old days. Cool thread cotedupy!
 
I have done allot of experimentation using slurry generated with a diamond plate and different naguras on different base stones, including arkansas stones. Without exception, the slurry creates more damage then the base stone can make up for.
Without having a base stone that works in some harmony with the base stone, the slurry will not give optimum results.
The same thing happens with knifes. If i slurry a arkansas or a hybrid Les Lat, the stones cut really fast. However, it will not create a good working edge on the knife. The edge falls apart quite fast.
I have the same experience with razors. The edge feels barely ok for the first shave, then it degrades fast. Under magnification it looks like the apex have been used for target practice. You get some of the same effects if you use slurry on a synthetic stone. The difference is that the synthetic stone is fast enough to compensate for the apex damage without slurry.
 
I have done allot of experimentation using slurry generated with a diamond plate and different naguras on different base stones, including arkansas stones. Without exception, the slurry creates more damage then the base stone can make up for.
Without having a base stone that works in some harmony with the base stone, the slurry will not give optimum results.
The same thing happens with knifes. If i slurry a arkansas or a hybrid Les Lat, the stones cut really fast. However, it will not create a good working edge on the knife. The edge falls apart quite fast.
I have the same experience with razors. The edge feels barely ok for the first shave, then it degrades fast. Under magnification it looks like the apex have been used for target practice. You get some of the same effects if you use slurry on a synthetic stone. The difference is that the synthetic stone is fast enough to compensate for the apex damage without slurry.


This is very interesting, because I know the level of detail you go into when you do that comparisons like that. I always find your scope images of edges and the honing process fascinating.

For knives I do have success using atoma slurry on finer stones like arks without, I think, noticeable loss of edge retention. But (blowing my own trumpet slightly) I am pretty good at knife sharpening, and have probably developed quite a decent intuitive feel for how to minimise fatigued steel at the edge, while still preserving bite and teeth. Having said that - I've never actually done any direct side-by-side comparisons for this kind of thing on knives, perhaps I'll try it soon... and perhaps I'll be surprised.
 
This is very interesting, because I know the level of detail you go into when you do that comparisons like that. I always find your scope images of edges and the honing process fascinating.

For knives I do have success using atoma slurry on finer stones like arks without, I think, noticeable loss of edge retention. But (blowing my own trumpet slightly) I am pretty good at knife sharpening, and have probably developed quite a decent intuitive feel for how to minimise fatigued steel at the edge, while still preserving bite and teeth. Having said that - I've never actually done any direct side-by-side comparisons for this kind of thing on knives, perhaps I'll try it soon... and perhaps I'll be surprised.
Your experience with knifes probably helps, because as apposed to razor honing, you can play allot more with pressure when you are sharpening knifes. You are also roughing up the surface, so the stone is probably quite active even if the slurry is thinned down, or removed. On a razor this is probably a difficult balance, if it can be done successfully.

When you study the effect of slurry on razors using a microscope it is quite clear that slurry is a double edge sword.
I did not think anyone was paying attention to my microscope pics:)
 
Your experience with knifes probably helps, because as apposed to razor honing, you can play allot more with pressure when you are sharpening knifes. You are also roughing up the surface, so the stone is probably quite active even if the slurry is thinned down, or removed. On a razor this is probably a difficult balance, if it can be done successfully.

When you study the effect of slurry on razors using a microscope it is quite clear that slurry is a double edge sword.
I did not think anyone was paying attention to my microscope pics:)


Haha! Well perhaps it’s just me, but I can confirm that at least one person does find them very interesting. :)

I’m also very impressed by just how clean and perfect you get your edges. I’ve never looked at any of my razors under proper scope magnification like that, but I doubt the majority of the time they’d reach that level tbh.

And also - yes, what you say here is absolutely the key to ‘one stone’ knife sharpening. The difference and reduction of pressure from beginning to end is pretty significant, to an extent that you can’t do with razors.

you can play allot more with pressure when you are sharpening knifes.
 
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Without having a base stone that works in some harmony with the base stone, the slurry will not give optimum results.

You can, of course sacrifice and cut an inch or so off your base stone and generate a slurry. Or generate a slurry by rubbing with an identical stone.
 
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I think the point I am trying to make is that allot of stones do not work that well with slurry, either from the base stone or with a matching slurry stone.
Even a nagura cut from the same stone might not work as well as a matched nagura.
Arkansas stones is probably one of the last stones you would use with nagura for razor honing.
 
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