I noticed prepping my beard well and spending at least a couple of minutes face lathering helps me get a comfortable shave. Hot water is all I need, but I let my shower head spray my beard for around ten minutes. If I don't stay in the shower long enough or my water isn't warm enough, I get a tuggy shave.
One of year of wet shaving under the belt and I still have horrible irritation...
- Thread starter SullyInATX
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Not in the same class of your irritation, but I was still getting neck razor burn after finding a blade that worked well, and getting the pattern of my shaving down. The last thing that helped get rid of the last bit of razor burn was cool water shaving. I was shocked, and prefer the feel of hot water on my face, but it's worth it for not having a sore neck all day.
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- #123
So I've come to the conclusion that my lathers just don't look like they should, in respect to pictures/lathering videos I've seen. I'm wondering if that's effecting my quality of shave. Earlier in the thread someone mentioned hard water and using citric acid/distilled water. I went ahead and picked up some distilled water today. Not sure if I want to put it in the fridge or heat it up before use. That being said, I only really need it to soak my brush and make the lather, correct? Just testing to see if the hard water is the culprit behind my less-than ideal shave soap lathers. Whether I face lather or bowl lather, it just comes out semi-thick. I don't ever really get peaks at all. I'll try to make a lather with my water and with the distilled water, take pictures and post. My bowl is a Captain's Choice large shaving bowl. I'm wondering if the circular things in the bottom are affecting the bowl lather.
Hard water can be overcome by using more soap / cream. It just takes a little longer to build up the lather. The rings in the bottom of the bowl help in building the lather quicker. Distilled water is not necessary but try and see if it makes a significant difference.
I've been watching this thread with great interest. I've also been shaving for a little over a year and just recently (with some tips I read on this thread) have been able to get my neck irritation under control. I know it's probably adding to information overload but I just thought I'd add what's working for me.
First, I started using razors that hold the blade more ridgid. I've been using a Tech, my Super Speeds, and a Slim Adjustable. I've changed up the blades I've been using. Polsilvers, Voskhods, Gillette Silver Blue, and Gillette yellows. These blades are all sharp and comfortable. I've been using VDH soap mostly since it doesn't dry my face out. I really like Stirling and Razorock too. I also figured that I may have been shaving too slow on my neck. I've been making short, deliberate strokes on my neck and that gives me a cleaner cut. For aftershave I use Dickinson's witch hazel and then Nivea Sensitive ASB. This combo has been a winner for me. My neck irritation has cleared up a ton.
Good luck to you. There were times when I seriously considered stopping but like you, I really enjoy the experience. You will soon hit your stride and be getting great shaves.
First, I started using razors that hold the blade more ridgid. I've been using a Tech, my Super Speeds, and a Slim Adjustable. I've changed up the blades I've been using. Polsilvers, Voskhods, Gillette Silver Blue, and Gillette yellows. These blades are all sharp and comfortable. I've been using VDH soap mostly since it doesn't dry my face out. I really like Stirling and Razorock too. I also figured that I may have been shaving too slow on my neck. I've been making short, deliberate strokes on my neck and that gives me a cleaner cut. For aftershave I use Dickinson's witch hazel and then Nivea Sensitive ASB. This combo has been a winner for me. My neck irritation has cleared up a ton.
Good luck to you. There were times when I seriously considered stopping but like you, I really enjoy the experience. You will soon hit your stride and be getting great shaves.
Sully a couple of thoughts. 1. You should really try a schick injector (I have L1) while you still have GAS. I was having issues with DE as well and decided to try an injector....wow what a difference. These work more like your cartridge razor but will be much cheaper on the blade front. You'll still need multiple passes but hopefully will get better shaves with less irritation. 2. Try a vintage Gillette Tech for DE. I always get irritation with my DE89 but not with the Tech. Maybe it would work for you as well. Best of luck.
The Feather AS-D2 should solve any rigidity issues and personally I'd combine it with a sharp blade. Feather, Polsilver ect.
In the words of rabidus Rigidity is real! Completely solved my issues.
See this thread: Gillette NEW LC Not Cutting It
A thin wet lather isnt going to give the protection, slickness or cushion a thicker lather will. When in doubt, load more soap and add water slowly.
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- #128
I tried the Feather AS-D2 once and got a horrible shave. Just need some time practicing blade angle. The distilled water really worked last night! Best lather I've ever produced (used my current favorite PAA Gondolier) and a Parker Pure Deluxe Badger brush. Still breaking in my Semogue and I'm trying to stick to using the same products for a while but, yeah, big difference with the distilled water. Soaked brush in about 1/3 distilled water and 2/3 hot tap water and sink with half hot tap water and half distilled water. The lather was much more cushiony and slick. I stuck with my 34C and a Feather which has been my go-to for a while (again, trying to stick with the same products as much as possible). The soap provided so much slickness it made me have to dial back my pressure on the razor. It was just slicing so quick and smooth. It stung a few times because I wasn't use to it. I was able to go ATG on my horrible neck grain with almost no issues. Only got red after I put on some Proraso green ASB but subsided soon after. I'm considering this one a win out of hopefully many to come. I will stick to these products and techniques for a month or so and then switch to my Barrister and Mann Seville and Semogue (should be broken in by then, hand lathering it for a few minutes everyday). Let the games begin.
Edit: When I used the AS-D2 it was with a Kai. I'm hoping after the next month of perfecting lathering I can try it again (maybe just on sideburn/cheek areas) and practice the blade angle so I can fully make use of it. Very expensive razor but I'd rather try and fail than return for one failed attempt.
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I love Kai's--- in almost any razor other than a Feather. The Kai is like .2mm wider blade edge to blade edge. A small but noticeable increase in blade exposure/feel. I have 2 Feather razors, and they just don't work well with Kai's. I can't explain why. Now I don't have an As-D2, so take my personal experience with a grain of salt. A Feather in a Feather is about as good as it gets for me.
I'm glad to see you've stuck with it, and begun to have some success. I don't know if I would have been as patient. I wish you continued good luck.
If Alum is burning you've shaved too close to the skin if you get a good shave in the Alum won't even sting a little it's a great teaching tool. I would suggest picking one razor one type of blade and one soap and spend a month only using that focusing on your technique. You'll never get good with anything changing everything out all the time. Also just wash your face for prep at first don't use the exfoliator it's probably getting your skin on edge pre shave.
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- #131
Still haven't tried using the alum to check for closeness @LevelUpShaves. I ended up ditching the feathers and started using my Astra SPs last week. I also started to use my cartridge razor to hit the lower sides of the neck because I'm tired of not being able to go ATG with the DE. It's just way too stubbly still if I only hit it WTG. Other than that I don't think my technique needs much improvement. My skin tells me that I can't go XTG on my mustache area so I usually just hit it 1-2 times WTG. The hairs on my lower neck (problem areas) lay so flat that the DE has to tug to pull them up when I try going ATG. I always use my boar brush to try and get them to stand up before hitting them but I just can't do it with the DE. I've been able to 1 time this entire year with only a few weepers. Usually it's just blood everywhere. I've tried changing blade angle, blade exposure, different blades/razors, different pressures, pretty much everything and I always get the same results. So it looks like I'll be keeping the cartridges around for a while unfortunately. Really wanted to ditch them. I returned the AS-D2 and ordered a Rockwell 6C. The Futur's head is a little too bulky for my taste so I figured I'd try this baseplate thing out with the Rockwell. Picked up some Gillette 7 O'clock SS, a Simpson Chubby 2 and some new Barrister and Mann soap (Latha classic) to try out. I feel I'm at the point where I can start trying different products again. I won't give up on tackling the ATG problem on my neck but I definitely won't be trying it often. I also head shave and picked up some Proraso White cream to try out. I've really been enjoying the green (lotion/tonic) aftershave. Have a good day guys!
Lurker here that feels your pain! This will most likely be an unpopular opinion but looking at your pictures you have probably similar hair and skin like I do. I tried years and years with cartridges and now with Safety Razors. The only thing I can use that doesn't leave my skin irritated while still giving me an almost as close shave as ATG with a DE is: shaving wet with an electrical razor. I have one of those Panasonic with 4 blade thingys (ES-RF31) and use normal shaving creme. (Braun Series 3+ are good too) I can go in all directions and my skin feels like nothing happened to it while it even removes the shadow I still had when I shaved with a cartridge or a DE which I can absolutely not use ATG. I tried all kinds of blades and stuff (EJd89).
I am just throwing that out there... don't dismiss the electric ones right away. I could never use one dry, it feels like a cheese grater but wet is very very nice.
I am just throwing that out there... don't dismiss the electric ones right away. I could never use one dry, it feels like a cheese grater but wet is very very nice.
- Thread starter
- #133
I have a Braun Series 7 that I use on my head after a couple days of growth if I don't have time to get an actual shave in. It's hit/miss on my problem areas. Dunno what's up with those two spots on my neck. They just don't like to be shaved. It isn't wet/dry though. Maybe that would make a difference.
You mention that making a better lather has allowed you to decrease pressure on the razor. Trying to make that a goal should help your shaves a lot. Pressure and bad angle are normally the causes of nicks and irritation.
Good luck... and please keep us posted.
Good luck... and please keep us posted.
I shave for over 20 years now. My problem areas are the chin and goatee are as well as the areas next to my Adam's apple. I could soak the hairs for days and they would not get any softer. They are like wires there. Against the grain with no pressure lets the safety razor jump over the hairs and if I use a slight bit of pressure so the blade would cut the hairs I get irritation. I bet a single blade razor would work better for me since the blade vibrates less that way. But since I have found that electric shaver that lets me shave wet and use all the soaps and cremes while giving me a very close shave without any irritations whatsoever, I have stopped the experimenting.
Again, I am just throwing this out there since you seem to struggle the same way I have. If you decide to try one out I would recommend a Panasonic Arc3/Arc4 or a Brown Series 3. Don't buy one with those rotating blades, they will irritated your skin too. Sometimes there is a "money back guarantee" when you buy one electric shaver. Maybe have a look at that.
Edit: after looking at your pictures a bit more, your 3 days worth of growth are what I would call I 24h growth for me after a close shave. Just to put that into perspective. Shaving your neck must be a nightmare though. They are growing in all directions. Shaving from the bottom to the top would actually be with the grain for you on those areas. My hair goes crazy on that areas too but not that crazy. I hope you find your style.
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- Thread starter
- #136
The first image is today with 5 days of growth (waiting for my Rockwell 6C to come in). The second image is what I believe to be the WTG patterns (I normally just go S to N until I hit the jawline). The third image is a suggested approach on how to do a XTG pass on those trouble areas. The fourth image is typically my XTG/ATG pattern. I usually don't go XTG or ATG down the middle of the neck as it isn't needed in regards to leftover stubble or shadowing.
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Hey Sully!
Great to see you are making progress. Sounds like that water is a game changer! I have experienced super hard water when traveling and it can make for some tough shaves. Some products do better than others a in hard water. I am lucky as I do not shower a prep, then cold water shave so that makes it really a easy to shave with bottled water.
I almost the same neck pattern as you. For me, shaves got better when I stopped trying to go sideways so much. More up and down. When I started to go straight down for top inch, then straight up for bottom section on my neck, that helped. Second pass is ATG on top neck grain, xtg below.
All the best and good job working through it, JM.
Great to see you are making progress. Sounds like that water is a game changer! I have experienced super hard water when traveling and it can make for some tough shaves. Some products do better than others a in hard water. I am lucky as I do not shower a prep, then cold water shave so that makes it really a easy to shave with bottled water.
I almost the same neck pattern as you. For me, shaves got better when I stopped trying to go sideways so much. More up and down. When I started to go straight down for top inch, then straight up for bottom section on my neck, that helped. Second pass is ATG on top neck grain, xtg below.
All the best and good job working through it, JM.
Now that's some good beard mapping.
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- #139
Lol. Too bad it hasn't helped. I hate letting it grow out like this.
I have been following your thread with interest over the past few pages especially. I am also currently struggling some with my shaves, attempting to get rid of irritation. Your beard growth and hair actually looks quite similar to mine (I have pictures on the 3rd page of the "Best Shave I've Had" thread in this subforum. I haven't been at this anywhere near as long as you, but one thing that has been mentioned in that thread several times is having a razor that holds the blade rigidly. I noticed a lot of skipping around and what I'm terming "blade wobble", where the blade seemed to flex and I would get a nick or really bad irritation when hitting tough areas of hair. Those areas are where I had horrendous irritation. The good thing about razors that hold the blade secure: they're cheap. As in really cheap. RazoRock makes an OLD style open comb that I've used for one shave but has worked well for me so far. They also have a butterfly open one that is similar to the Baili that I've used to calm my irritation immensely.
I will also say that I have a Panasonic wet/dry electric and that does a decent job. It isn't a game changer for me like it is for the previous poster, but it is much faster and I get less irritation than I did with carts. It also could probably be used to knock down my stubble a lot and make my blade shaving more efficient. I haven't tried this method yet, as I think I can get rid of it by just using a sharp but comfortable blade (I love the Astra SPs too) and a razor that holds that blade rigid (RazoRock OLD style is what I'm using now) instead of the electric.
One other question I have since you mentioned your lather before: do you face or bowl lather? I find that my lathers are way better when I bowl lather, although I enjoy face lathering more. It feels so much better, but the lather is never as good of a quality as what I make in my cheapo stainless steel bowl I bought on Amazon.
I remember you saying originally that you were strapped for time, leading you to shave only every 3-5 days, in combination with the severe irritation you get. I have noticed a lot less irritation by going to every day DE shaving from when I started. My skin started out hating it, and my irritation got worse from cartridges. It took about 10 days, but it finally settled down a lot. That first week was brutal, and I would recommend only doing 2 passes at most if you decide to attempt this. I did WTG, XTG (and this is what I've been doing more the latter half of this week with less irritation).
Keep us updated on your progress!
I will also say that I have a Panasonic wet/dry electric and that does a decent job. It isn't a game changer for me like it is for the previous poster, but it is much faster and I get less irritation than I did with carts. It also could probably be used to knock down my stubble a lot and make my blade shaving more efficient. I haven't tried this method yet, as I think I can get rid of it by just using a sharp but comfortable blade (I love the Astra SPs too) and a razor that holds that blade rigid (RazoRock OLD style is what I'm using now) instead of the electric.
One other question I have since you mentioned your lather before: do you face or bowl lather? I find that my lathers are way better when I bowl lather, although I enjoy face lathering more. It feels so much better, but the lather is never as good of a quality as what I make in my cheapo stainless steel bowl I bought on Amazon.
I remember you saying originally that you were strapped for time, leading you to shave only every 3-5 days, in combination with the severe irritation you get. I have noticed a lot less irritation by going to every day DE shaving from when I started. My skin started out hating it, and my irritation got worse from cartridges. It took about 10 days, but it finally settled down a lot. That first week was brutal, and I would recommend only doing 2 passes at most if you decide to attempt this. I did WTG, XTG (and this is what I've been doing more the latter half of this week with less irritation).
Keep us updated on your progress!
