Omega 21762 "Italian Flag" and R&B LE, Are They REALLY The Same Brush?

[energyloop]

A little background: I was looking for a nice premium boar to round out the rotation and learned of the Omega R&B which, from what research I did, has been described as "very plush" and "like a premium silvertip brush in feel", and has whiter and finer bristles than a regular 48.

The 21762 aka "Italian Flag" aka "48 Tricolore" is said to be the same brush so I bit the bullet and got one.

The brush has impressed me in it's first week- already as soft as or softer than my Proraso Pro right out of the box, which has been in use for months, great flow-through and lather capacity, which duh, has to be expected of a barber brush. However, it's still not as soft as the banded Omegas, and the scritch is on par with a regular Omega, plus the bristles are hardly any whiter like in pictures or videos of the R&B.

Don't get me wrong, it's still a very fine brush that I'm happy to own and use, but is the knot actually different from the original R&B version and have I fallen victim to misinformed reviewers who own one or the other and assume they're the same? I don't own a 48/49 to compare so I can't tell if it uses a regular 48/49 knot.

Would love to hear actual firsthand, unbiased experience from people who own either with a 48/49, and can compare both. I may have already did the purchase, but it would serve as decent information for future potential purchasers.

 

[shaveSymptomatic]

I have a 49 and the Italian flag, they are definitely not the same knot nor do they have the same hair. The hair on the Italian flag is bleached and thinner.

 

[energyloop]

I have a 49 and the Italian flag, they are definitely not the same knot nor do they have the same hair. The hair on the Italian flag is bleached and thinner.

Is this the R&B you're talking about? The bristles on my 21762 do not look radically different from the Proraso or my other Omegas. Would you happen to have a recent picture of it for posterity?

 

[shaveSymptomatic]

Is this the R&B you're talking about? The bristles on my 21762 do not look radically different from the Proraso or my other Omegas. Would you happen to have a recent picture of it for posterity?

I'm talking about the Omega 21762 Vs the 10049. I don't know anything about the R&B. I can take pictures tomorrow.

 

[shaveSymptomatic]

Here are the pictures before I forget. They look much more different in person than in pictures.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk

 

[energyloop]

Here are the pictures before I forget. They look much more different in person than in pictures.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk

Thanks, this is incredibly helpful. There just aren't any closeup pictures of the 21762 out there. Definitely looks fairly similar to when I put the 21762 and Proraso side by side. Now I just need someone with a R&B to chime in.

 

[Timeclo]

I have an Omega R&B and a Pro 48 to compare with; bottom line, they are way different.

Omega R&B is probably the most bleached boar that I have. Almost no backbone but really soft and splays really easily.

Pro 48 has got some scrub and good backbone. Because of its tall loft, it does behave a bit differently but compared to R&B, it's a lot more scrubby. That said, I enjoy both but R&B is really a unique one on its own.

Not good quality photos but here they are. (R&B photo has a filter on it but it really is a lot whiter.)

 

[Owen Bawn]

I got lucky and bought the last R&B brush Shoebox had; I also have a 48 (higher loft), a 49 and an 83 (both with the same loft as the R&B). The Italian Tricolour originated with that R&B limited edition. A year or two later Omega decided to put the brush into regular retail production. The R&B hairs are markedly thinner and the brush has less backbone than even the 48 with its higher loft. I remember at the time many guys complained that the R&B brush was too floppy, something you seldom hear about Omegas. As far as I know, the production model they've sold for the past 4-5 years does not have the same hair as the R&B, though I've never used one myself.

 

[energyloop]

I have an Omega R&B and a Pro 48 to compare with; bottom line, they are way different.

Omega R&B is probably the most bleached boar that I have. Almost no backbone but really soft and splays really easily.

Pro 48 has got some scrub and good backbone. Because of its tall loft, it does behave a bit differently but compared to R&B, it's a lot more scrubby. That said, I enjoy both but R&B is really a unique one on its own.

Not good quality photos but here they are. (R&B photo has a filter on it but it really is a lot whiter.)
View attachment 1180374 View attachment 1180375

Thank you so much. The R&B is so much whiter than my 21762 which is what leads me to believe that they are different knots. I also read your review and the comments on another site which also casts some light on this.

I got lucky and bought the last R&B brush Shoebox had; I also have a 48 (higher loft), a 49 and an 83 (both with the same loft as the R&B). The Italian Tricolour originated with that R&B limited edition. A year or two later Omega decided to put the brush into regular retail production. The R&B hairs are markedly thinner and the brush has less backbone than even the 48 with its higher loft. I remember at the time many guys complained that the R&B brush was too floppy, something you seldom hear about Omegas. As far as I know, the production model they've sold for the past 4-5 years does not have the same hair as the R&B, though I've never used one myself.

Is the R&B really a lower loft than the 48? I was under impression that they were the same at ~65mm, which I can confirm the 21762 measures at as well. If they aren't the same then it seals the deal that they aren't the same brush.

I've read that piece of info that the production model doesn't use the same hairs as well, and it does seem to be stacking up to be true unless I can find someone who owns both or is willing to sell me a R&B.

 

[Owen Bawn]

The R&B is set at 60mm, the same as the 49 and the 83. I don't know at what loft the production tricolour is set.

 

[kooshman7]

The R&B was mentioned to have a special batch of hair chosen for the brush. It is more refined than any of the other Omega boars that I have. I would tend to believe it is true as the brush makers really don't say something is special if it isn't special.

 

[Owen Bawn]

The R&B was mentioned to have a special batch of hair chosen for the brush. It is more refined than any of the other Omega boars that I have. I would tend to believe it is true as the brush makers really don't say something is special if it isn't special.

You are absolutely correct- I remember that distinctly, and my experience with the R&B confirms that it was a unique hair among Omegas. But I have no idea whether the same is true for the production model- the 21762 or 21792 or whatever number it is. That brush appeared a couple years after the R&B limited edition, and personally I just don't know whether Omega makes the same claim about the grade of bristle on that brush.

 

[kooshman7]

You are absolutely correct- I remember that distinctly, and my experience with the R&B confirms that it was a unique hair among Omegas. But I have no idea whether the same is true for the production model- the 21762 or 21792 or whatever number it is. That brush appeared a couple years after the R&B limited edition, and personally I just don't know whether Omega makes the same claim about the grade of bristle on that brush.

From what I have read on various sites I see no mentions of the hair being anything special in the 21762. I have never seen any mentioning of it being special on any of the sites where I have seen it for sale. Omega has never really gone into depth of boar classifications like Semogue does. I believe there is an interview on another wetshaving forum that might have touched on that area slightly, but don't quote me on that. For what it is worth, on Omega's site for brushes, it makes no distinction of anything special about the hair. It is only broken down into a Professional, Traveling, and Classic line. For Badger it is categorized as badger plus, black badger, super badger, and silvertip badger. I know for myself I consider the banded boar and the bleached hair to be two distinct categories. I liken the Omega unbleached to the hair in the Semogue 2000 line, and the banded hair for Omega to be like the Semogue 620 hair.

 

[kooshman7]

I'll take one for the team and buy the regular model too. I'll post some photos of it when I get it next to the R&B brush.

 

[energyloop]

I'll take one for the team and buy the regular model too. I'll post some photos of it when I get it next to the R&B brush.

While I would appreciate you doing that, I don't think that's necessary.

If you do have a R&B, post 2 good quality pictures of the bristles close up, dry and completely soaking wet, which is what we're missing here in the thread. The dry bristles should already look different from the 21762 and 48/49, and clumping is a telltale sign of well bleached hairs. I can provide the wet one for the 21762.

I made this thread to investigate if the 21762 and R&B are different, not just for myself, but for any potential purchasers reading reviews of the 21762 out there ending with "I have the R&B version" which renders them moot. Unnecessary purchases do not have to be made here....unless you want to, of course. I am 90% convinced already, either way. That last 10% isn't worth an unneeded brush.

 

[kooshman7]

Doesn't bother me. I like the handle well enough that having two won't bother me in the slightest.

 

[kooshman7]

Sorry for the late reply. My energy levels have been at a rock bottom.

Omega 21762 on left in all pictures, R&B on right.

The 21762 is brand new, never use, while the R&B has seen light use.Can’t be more than 15 uses. Likely lower. I have an absurd level of brushes.

Being used, the R&B has softer tips, but not excessively so. I wouldn’t call it gel tip, but then again I’ve never seen or heard of a gel tip before recent vendors making them that way. The R&B has whiter tips, but I have seen some photos of the 21762 that look quite white in the presentation photos on eBay particularly. I think it is possible to find some new 21762 that will be quite white in the tips, but the R&B is more likely to exhibit this being from one batch. I can state for a time I had two other R&B brushes for a time that I decided to sell not expecting my nephews to get as involved in wetshaving as myself, and those were quite white when I took them out for photographs.

I’m happy with having this 21762. It’s a bit longer so it gives me a different take on what I consider one of the finest Omega boar brushes made thanks to the better handle.

 

[energyloop]

Sorry for the late reply. My energy levels have been at a rock bottom.

Omega 21762 on left in all pictures, R&B on right.

The 21762 is brand new, never use, while the R&B has seen light use.Can’t be more than 15 uses. Likely lower. I have an absurd level of brushes.

Being used, the R&B has softer tips, but not excessively so. I wouldn’t call it gel tip, but then again I’ve never seen or heard of a gel tip before recent vendors making them that way. The R&B has whiter tips, but I have seen some photos of the 21762 that look quite white in the presentation photos on eBay particularly. I think it is possible to find some new 21762 that will be quite white in the tips, but the R&B is more likely to exhibit this being from one batch. I can state for a time I had two other R&B brushes for a time that I decided to sell not expecting my nephews to get as involved in wetshaving as myself, and those were quite white when I took them out for photographs.

I’m happy with having this 21762. It’s a bit longer so it gives me a different take on what I consider one of the finest Omega boar brushes made thanks to the better handle.

Thanks for following through. It's surprising to hear that the bristles are not excessively softer on the R&B, I was expecting early 2010s Semogue-level bleaching.

I do believe that this is the first time on the internet someone has compared the both side-by-side and gave a conclusive review, so kudos to you hammering the final nail in the coffin. If only vendors removed those "I have the R&B version" reviews on listings for the 21762.

 

[SliceOfLife]

I owned the LE and a 49.

The 49 was massively, MASSIVELY superior. I HATED the LE. It shed, was the floppiest brush I ever owned, It was so damn sparsely packed I couldn't believe they'd put their name on it. I could clump all the hairs together and the knot had less hair than vastly smaller low end/affordable brushes like a Semo 1470, etc, etc. Oh and it cost an OUTRAGEOUS amount for a Boar at the time ($30). I think I steamed the knot out within a few DAYS of it arriving and stuck a 30mm TGN Grade A badger in there. It honestly might be the worst brush I ever bought... except maybe the Shea Moisture black badger brush.

Omega R&B is probably the most bleached boar that I have. Almost no backbone but really soft and splays really easily.

This describes it perfectly, except remove the "Almost". The brush had NO backbone.

The 49 is probably the best Omega I've tried, tied with the B&B brushes... though I prefer the size of the B&B's.


edit:

So I dug up my posts when I bought the R&B... No one on B&B was talking about it, so I actually registered on another forum that was discussing it JUST to express my disgust with it. Some excerpts from my first post on it...

" It's really unique among boar brushes in just how floppy it is....

I mean, I COULD get lather out of it, but damned if it's worth the effort. I find it that bad.

...
I've lathered many times with vintage knots that are tattered, falling apart, losing hairs every few seconds, and still this is among the worst lather-producers I've ever used. I can get good lather out of it if I use truly top tier soaps and work the crap out of the lather, but it's almost comical how ineffectual this thing is at its primary job.
"

I then palm lathered it for several days/weeks before steaming the knot out after it (not kidding) Sliced my palm open while palm lathering. There was a freaking barb in the bristles.


Someone else speculated in the thread that the bristles have a coating that "kills lather", the brush is that bad.

 

[alin]

How do you like Zenith A28 or A26 (aluminum handle) compared to Omega 21762, Omega 48, Omega 49 or Proraso? Which one would you buy?