Old Wade & Butcher Help

[Njguy1977]

I received this Wade and Butcher today and it needs a little help. I plan on doing a blade polish and hone as usual. The scales need some help and a soak in oil too. My future plans could be put this blade in some ivory scales that I have or make some new horn scales by hand reusing as much of the bold hardware and lead wedge. I need help on suggestions on how to restore this one because I know this blade design with the thumb notch hardly comes up and the hone wear isn’t bad at all. It’s one of the heaviest blades I have, I think my W&B WR crown stamp is a little heavier if not the same. Would I need to tape the spine to hone? I already know I will need to do a rolling stroke to hone this one. All help and history of this blade is much appreciated, love to know as much info as possible.

Larry

 

[Legion]

That razor looks in pretty good shape for it's age.

I'd probably go minimalist, and just do whats needed to get it shaving. Give the blade a good buff with metal polish. Add a small amount of CA glue to that crack in the scales, sand that, then give them a few coats of neatsfoot oil to hydrate them a bit. Then I would add a little bees wax and polish them.

I wouldnt tape the blade to hone, but the first thing I would do is a few laps on a stone you know is flat, and do a sharpie test. Check that closely with a loupe, and then you can form a plan on how you want to go about honing it up.

 

[Doc226]

Agree with Legion 100%.

I also wouldn’t put that blade in ivory, they just don’t go together, that’s a beautiful blade and IMO it belongs in black horn.

 

[Njguy1977]

Agree with Legion 100%.

I also wouldn’t put that blade in ivory, they just don’t go together, that’s a beautiful blade and IMO it belongs in black horn.

Looks like my plan of attack is to unpin it and fix the scales with some horn standings and a little CA after I soak them in neatsfoot oil. Then hand cleanin the blade, reassemble and polish the scales. The scales are original and I’d like to keep this one as original as possible. Ty doc and legion for the suggestions, I will start on this blade once the garage warms up a bit from this recent cold snap in NJ.

Larry

 

[Grayswandir]

Are you going to use some tape to set the bevel? You can sand or buff out the honing marks that are already on the spine. There's a guy on Facebook, I forget his name, but his restores are beautiful. He uses a product that gives the razor the old Sheffield "glazed" finish. The product he uses is called LA348. You can find it at Jantz Supply. I'm going to try some in the near future, as I really like the way he finishes his razors.

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[H Brad Boonshaft]

Nice blade does have substantial spine wear and a bit of a frown in the middle. It has been honed on the stabilizer and the tang.

Reshape that heel, move the heel corner forward/away from the stabilizer, and allow the razor to sit flat on the stone, that heel accounts for the frown, the very narrow bevel at the heel and wear at the toe.

If you reshape the heel, you could probably hone that frown out easily.

A few drops of CA glue on the cracks should stabilize them nicely, then a lite sanding, and touch up with a sharpie and sand to 600 and polish with a good metal polish would make the repairs and touch up invisible, then rehydrate in neetsfoot.

Karlj is a master of razor restoration and can recreate a Black[11] Sheffield true Crocus finish. There is no magic polishing compound, (LA348). Buffing/polishing is similar to honing, and one must understand the progression and remove all the scratches, (without destroying the detail), with each compound. It is a progression of compounds, different wheels, judicious sanding and experience. Karl uses 6-10 compounds and hand sanding to produce his finishes. He has described his process a few times on other fora.

I know only a handful of guys capable of producing a finish like Karl’s or on pristine vintage Sheffield razors. There are also a handful of Sheffield Knife Guild makers that are reproducing that finish on new work. Google Steven Crocker, Sheffield Knife maker.

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[11]

 

[Frank Shaves]

I wouldnt tape the blade to hone, but the first thing I would do is a few laps on a stone you know is flat, and do a sharpie test. Check that closely with a loupe, and then you can form a plan on how you want to go about honing it up.

Can you provide some insight about not using tape?

I ask because I would probably just measure the bevel angle and then decide to tape or not to tape.

 

[H Brad Boonshaft]

Reshape that heel and move the heel corner away from the stabilizer, that will probably allow you to hone out the frown. You can see in this photo where the razor has been honed over the stabilizer and the tang, keeping the heel half of the razor off the stone and causing the frown. Note the increased wear on the spine and bevel at the toe, and lack of bevel width at the heel, it is not making full contact with the stone. The increased wear is where the honer used more pressure trying to get the heel on the stone. More of the same, hoping for a different result.

There is substantial wear on the spine that one layer of tape will make up for spine thickness loss. If you only tape one inch in the middle it will make honing the smile easier.

Some folks do not like to tape, it is your razor, your choice, there is no benefit from not taping.

 

[Njguy1977]

I appreciate all the suggestions and help, but I am not looking to work on this razor anytime soon. A correction tho, the tang and stabilizer area is not wear, that is intentional from the maker, it’s exactly the same area in the opposite side and others examples shown online in pictures has the same area exactly. The light just reflects differently in the picture on either side. Also every blade I have seen online exactly like the one I have has the exact same marking just under the spine points at the top of the hollow grind. Can I say it’s uneven or excessive hone wear, don’t know but from given the age of this one it’s probably one of the first designs using a hollow grind and since both sides are similar it could be intentional from the hollowing process from when the razor was made. The same is also show on other examples I’ve found when searching on the web. With that said, legion and doc both made a great suggestion by marking the edge with a sharpie make a few passes and see where the wear pattern goes. From there that decides what’s going on with the blade and will show how the wear pattern is going. If the wear is showing a frown then I would have to reshape the heel slightly. In my experience in honing a blade can look perfect but when it hits the stones it’s another story. And vice versa, I’ve had blades that look terrible but a little push or some attention in a particular area and they turn out amazing shavers. Until then the mystery will have to wait until I’m ready to work on this one and clean it up fully, but it would be fun to keep everyone posted.

BYW doc, my DD Goldege doesn’t have the birds beak anymore, wound up doing exactly as you said and then re-established the bevel on a Shapton 1500 and went through a coti progression and it’s good as new!

Will keep everyone posted soon as to how things turn out on this one.

Larry

 

[H Brad Boonshaft]

"A correction tho, the tang and stabilizer area is not wear, that is intentional from the maker, it’s exactly the same area in the opposite side and others examples shown online in pictures has the same area exactly. The light just reflects differently in the picture on either side. Also every blade I have seen online exactly like the one I have has the exact same marking just under the spine points at the top of the hollow grind."

Yea… No, not really. That, (red arrows) is wear from honing on the stabilizer and excess pressure on the toe, also caused by trying to get the heel on the stone.

The reason you see it on other similar razors is because it is a common issue and if not corrected the excessive wear on the spine, narrow or nonexistent bevels at the heel and frowns are the results.

It is an easy fix.

 

[Njguy1977]

So in order to fix the frown situation do I bread knife the heel slightly to re-round it or do I move it slightly towards the toe side? I’m sure I will run into this issue again somewhere and it would be good to know what I can to correct the issue.

Larry

"A correction tho, the tang and stabilizer area is not wear, that is intentional from the maker, it’s exactly the same area in the opposite side and others examples shown online in pictures has the same area exactly. The light just reflects differently in the picture on either side. Also every blade I have seen online exactly like the one I have has the exact same marking just under the spine points at the top of the hollow grind."

Yea… No, not really. That, (red arrows) is wear from honing on the stabilizer and excess pressure on the toe, also caused by trying to get the heel on the stone.

The reason you see it on other similar razors is because it is a common issue and if not corrected the excessive wear on the spine, narrow or nonexistent bevels at the heel and frowns are the results.

It is an easy fix.

View attachment 1398178

 

[H Brad Boonshaft]

The frown looks very slight in the middle at the (Green arrow).

The heel corner, Red arrow is under the stabilizer, if you reshape the heel, reprofile it with a diamond plate, low grit stone or 220 wet and dry and move the heel corner about a ¼ inch towards the toe the razor, (Blue Arrow) will then sit flat on the stone and it can be honed without touching the stabilizer.

Once it is flat on the stone that frown should hone out and you will have a full bevel at the heel.

Just mark a radius with a sharpie and large coin or washer so that the corner is away from the stabilizer, then grind to the sharpie mark. The steel is very thin and will grind away easily.

 

[duke762]

This is going to be cool! I suggest ebony scales. Nice score!

 

[Bevel]

Agree with Legion 100%.

I also wouldn’t put that blade in ivory, they just don’t go together, that’s a beautiful blade and IMO it belongs in black horn.

I'd agree, Ivory is usually found on dainty light blades and NOT a heavy blade like this. To stop a heavy blade from flopping around you'd need to pin it quite tight but tight and ivory don't get along together.

A few drops of CA glue on the cracks should stabilize them nicely, then a lite sanding, and touch up with a sharpie and sand to 600 and polish with a good metal polish would make the repairs and touch up invisible, then rehydrate in neetsfoot.

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I'd agree the repair needs to be done BEFORE the neatsfoot oil. You want the glue to bind with the horn and if it was done after soaking in oil it would never hold properly.
Also I wouldn't worry too much about the crack in the wedge end, though I'd still fix it, but I'd like to know if the crack in the pivot end goes all the way through. You'd need to unpin it to know for certain and now is the time to fix that. CA and baking powder will reinforce it adequately.

Can you provide some insight about not using tape?

I ask because I would probably just measure the bevel angle and then decide to tape or not to tape.

I often set an exploratory bevel with a layer of tape on a razor I've just acquired just to see if it'll take an edge. The same thing I'm looking for can be achieved with a sharpie marker but the way I do it is more certain I think. The angle is exaggerated by the tape so it's more obvious. With a single layer this can be done in a few minutes and very little metal is removed.
After I know where any trouble spots are and I'm happy with the edge I'll hone it to completion without tape.
If there are bigger problems I stop and reassess.

There is substantial wear on the spine that one layer of tape will make up for spine thickness loss. If you only tape one inch in the middle it will make honing the smile easier.

If the middle to toe was taped it might give the heal part of the spine time to catch up and even things out?
The most serious spine wear is at the toe and I'd try and preserve it, at least until even across the length, although you'd need to watch this very carefully to remove the tape when the time comes.

 

[H Brad Boonshaft]

“If the middle to toe was taped it might give the heal part of the spine time to catch up and even things out”?

No.

That would completely lift the heel half of the edge off the stone, one end on the stabilizer the other on the tape. The problem is that the corner, (where the edge ends) is past the stabilizer so, you either must grind down the stabilizer, (that is what past honers have unintentionally and unsuccessfully have tried) or reshape the heel to move the corner well away from the stabilizer.

It literally only takes a few swipes on a diamond plate.

 

[kcb5150]

If anything is frowned there, just honing it with good approach will reel it in.

 

[Joshua223]

Nice score! Really like that blade design and stamp on the spine. If you have ivory scales that would fit that size blade well, that would look great. I would just repair the the original scales and get them looking nice again though.