Old street scene. What year?

[T.Orso]

Hi all. I have the picture below hanging in my basement. It is Jasper Avenue in Edmonton Alberta, I figure on a summer day in the late 1920’s.

But what year, do you think? Perhaps one of you who knows old cars can help me out.

 

[Captain Pre-Capsize]

Cool picture. A couple of observations. I think your guess is as good as any with it being the 1920's. I don't see any cars from the 1930's in the picture. It has to be noon when you look at how short the shadows are; also middle of the summer with the sun overhead. Lots of flag poles but only one flag flying in top right corner. Lots of cars so might this be a Saturday? Sign on side of building about the Edmonton Saddle Company for all the horses. So that business is still holding on in spite of all the cars. The electric trolley is about to also be displaced by the auto but it is still running back and forth on main street. It is a hot day with the windows opened on the second and third floors.

 

[T.Orso]

Cool picture. A couple of observations. I think your guess is as good as any with it being the 1920's. I don't see any cars from the 1930's in the picture. It has to be noon when you look at how short the shadows are; also middle of the summer with the sun overhead. Lots of flag poles but only one flag flying in top right corner. Lots of cars so might this be a Saturday? Sign on side of building about the Edmonton Saddle Company for all the horses. So that business is still holding on in spite of all the cars. The electric trolley is about to also be displaced by the auto but it is still running back and forth on main street. It is a hot day with the windows opened on the second and third floors.

Good observations. Edmonton is at latitude 53, so the shadows would put it near summer solstice, around noon. Shadow direction also indicates about noon (I grew up in Edmonton).

Good idea that it was a Saturday. I find the number of cars surprising, and maybe an indicator that it is late twenties, rather than early twenties. On the assumption that car ownership was higher later in the decade, and affluence greater in general. The cars all look like Model Ts to me.

Why so many eastbound just then? Another mystery.

I had thought maybe it was Dominion Day, to explain why there was so much traffic. But there should be more flags, if so.

There’s a little group of cowboys at bottom right, keeping close together, maybe feeling uncomfortable amidst all the men in suits.

There are a couple of horses and carts too. Here too I am a bit surprised there aren’t more horses around, considering the times and the fact that Edmonton is surrounded by farm country. But it’s the big city, I guess.

 

[JayFromBrooklyn]

on the 2nd building, lower right corner, between sidewalk and window is a sign for Old Chum Tobacco, you may want to research what years that was available. I saw an old chum tobacco tin thru googling with a date of 1923.

 

[JayFromBrooklyn]

also seems to be alotta history online for the Edmonton Saddlery company, i've seen references to 104 Street Promenade and an also an address of 10146 Jasper Avenue, which is close to 104th st. on google maps.

 

[JayFromBrooklyn]

not your photo exactly but this site has a ton of info about that area -

https://www.edmonton.ca/city_government/documents/PDF/Downtownwalkingtour.pdf

 

[JayFromBrooklyn]

this site has a photo of the same street with the trolley, same types of cars, listed as 1930. scroll down a little and the same street in 1940 has more modern cars and the trolley is gone

link-
15 awesome aerial views of Edmonton from way back in the day - https://www.livabl.com/2015/05/aerial-views-edmonton-history.html

 

[JayFromBrooklyn]

ok this is the last one for me tonight and I think the best you're gonna get....it's the site where the photos from the above post were taken from....it's a collection of over 5 pages / 220 dated photos of Jasper Avenue early 1900s and up thru the decades-

Search Results - http://peel.library.ualberta.ca/search/?search=page&qid=postcards%7Ctext%3A%28jasper+avenue%29%7C%7Cscore&index=postcards&locale=en&digstatus=&

at this site, you can also search jasper avenue for references in - bibliography, newspaper, and maps....that link is for the image search

 

[T.Orso]

ok this is the last one for me tonight and I think the best you're gonna get....it's the site where the photos from the above post were taken from....it's a collection of over 5 pages / 220 dated photos of Jasper Avenue early 1900s and up thru the decades-

Search Results - http://peel.library.ualberta.ca/search/?search=page&qid=postcards%7Ctext%3A%28jasper+avenue%29%7C%7Cscore&index=postcards&locale=en&digstatus=&

at this site, you can also search jasper avenue for references in - bibliography, newspaper, and maps....that link is for the image search

Thanks for all these great links. I went way down the rabbit hole, and learned quite a few things about my hometown.

One thing I had not realized was that this little part of Jasper Avenue was the centre of town, and that a few blocks west was Hudson’s Bay Company reserve, mostly undeveloped at the time of the photo. Growing up there, I never realized that pattern, and I always thought the centre was several blocks west.

As for the year of the photo, I now think it is closer to 1925 than to 1930. Looking at the delivery truck at bottom right, which belongs to the big furniture store across the street (not in this picture) I think it’s a 1923-1925 Ford, and having seen other pictures of that impressive furniture store, they would have had a recent model of truck.

No other photos from the era have anything close to the volume of vehicle or pedestrian traffic. Something special had to have been going on, maybe the agricultural fair.

 

[JayFromBrooklyn]

Thanks for all these great links. I went way down the rabbit hole, and learned quite a few things about my hometown.

Me too, I probably learned more than I ever needed to know about Jasper Ave. also LOL . I love these "what the heck is this?" question kinda' threads. I always had an odd talent for those memory/match & "find the difference" type puzzles... and I'm pretty good/fast at googling.

 

[novitiate]

As for the year of the photo, I now think it is closer to 1925 than to 1930.

To my eye majority of cars appear to be Model T Fords. Those ceased production in 1927 and most of the other vehicles appears similar in style and construction. So first guess is 1927 or earlier. This is borne out by newspaper the man in the top center left is carrying where you can just make out "26" at the end of the year date.

 

[Doc4]

I love those old photos, and seeing how things have changed.

Here's an old photo of Vancouver from the 1930s ...

The prominent "skyscraper" is The Marine Building, then reputed to be the tallest building in the British Empire/Commonwealth. This is looking northward, and part of Stanley Park is visible as the "island/peninsula" coming from the left.

Nowadays ...

... it's in there somwhere.

 

[T.Orso]

To my eye majority of cars appear to be Model T Fords. Those ceased production in 1927 and most of the other vehicles appears similar in style and construction. So first guess is 1927 or earlier. This is borne out by newspaper the man in the top center left is carrying where you can just make out "26" at the end of the year date.

The shifty looking fellow in the pinstripe suit, you mean? I could have sworn that was a bouquet of flowers in his hand.

1927 or earlier though, I agree.

 

[novitiate]

The shifty looking fellow in the pinstripe suit, you mean? I could have sworn that was a bouquet of flowers in his hand.

1927 or earlier though, I agree.

The Post Herald looked like a bunch of flowers then so right on both counts.

 

[Scarry Knight]

Seems to be a nice crowd outside the Liberty Rifle Range. Perhaps these folks can help...

Edmonton and District Historical Society

Edmonton and District Historical Society, Edmonton, Alberta. 2,522 likes · 9 talking about this. A non-profit, charitable society with a mandate to promote and preserve the history of Edmonton and

www.facebook.com

 

[T.Orso]

Found the picture in the Edmonton archives! Dated 1920. Hmm, can that be so?

Jasper Avenue Looking West - City of Edmonton Archives - https://cityarchives.edmonton.ca/jasper-avenue-looking-west-16

 

[T.Orso]

So here’s some new information that I figured out. The picture was taken on Monday July 5, 1920, at about 11:40 in the morning, local time. One hundred years ago today.

Working at home these last few months has given me ample occasion to look at the picture, speculate, and research.

I found a bunch of resources in the online Peel library at the University of Alberta that helped me piece this together.

Further up in the thread I had found a copy of the same picture online with the year 1920, which I doubted. Now, after having looked at the 1919, 1920 and 1921 Edmonton directories, I am sure it is 1920.

National Home Furnishers, visible here at 9936 Jasper Ave, appears first in the 1920 directory. In 1919, Cheapside Store is at this address.

By 1921, the Liberty Rifle Range is gone. Two years after the end of the Great War, maybe there weren’t so many customers who wanted to come downtown and shoot rifles in a basement. Mind you, at the same business you could enjoy a game of billiards, buy a cigar, get your shoes shined, and get a haircut and a shave. Even so, by 1921 this business was gone, replaced by Morris JH & Co. Ltd. Grocers.

By the time the 1920 directory came out in October, the Blue Store that you see here at 9910 Jasper Ave was gone, replaced by Dwyer T E & I Clothing store.

Confirmed then, this picture is from 1920.

I needed some explanation for the high volume of traffic on the street, which is unlike any pictures I have seen of the street in this period. From the shortness of the shadows, I had already put the date close to the summer solstice. July 5 is a solid guess, as I learned from the February 26 edition of the Edmonton Journal this was to be the first day of the annual Exhibition (July 5 - 10, 1920), and I read elsewhere that attendance was generally highest on opening day. The Exhibition grounds are east of downtown, in the direction that most of the traffic is going here.

Rates of car ownership were rapidly increasing in Alberta at this time. It is possible that this was one of Edmonton’s first traffic jams, an event worth leaning out the window to witness.

The other piece of evidence for it being July 5 is the damp patches in some places by the curb. July 5 1920 saw 6.9mm of rain in Edmonton, while the 6th had only a trace amount, and none on the 7th to the 10th.

Time of day is easy enough, based on the shadows in the street and on the McLeod building in the background, the large office tower that is one of the few buildings in this picture that is still standing today. Jasper Avenue and the adjoining streets are skewed slightly here, about 7 degrees shy of the compass points. Considering that, the angle of the shadows, and the record that solar noon in Edmonton on July 5, 1920 was at 12:38PM, and 15 degrees of travel of the sun per hour, I’m eyeballing it and calling it 11:40AM, July 5, 1920.

There you have it. Hope you’re all having a good day.

 

[T.Orso]

Better resolution this time?

 

[Doc4]

There you have it. Hope you’re all having a good day.

 

[sarimento1]

great thread!!

and i can recognize the marine building from my shots of downtown vancouver back in 2008!