Partially degreased end cut from a Norton/Pike boxed and labeled Lily White Washita from the 40s.
Oil Penetration - Lily White Washita
- Thread starter Gamma
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Neat. Maybe the butterscotch trans are just oil soaked stones then.
T
I thought that as well. Great photo Gamma.
That is interesting to see. About what I expected to see and penetration likely related to individual stone porosity. Some of those translucents have little detectable porosity like the butterscotch ones. I have one I soaked and sweated and never got a change out of, so it think it is the real color. Hard to tell. Not willing to cut it and see 
Thanks for sacrificing one and doing that Keith. Is this one reason you lacquered that washita in the other thread? Do you use oil on Arkansas stones yourself? I seem to recall in one of your videos you using something else.
Thanks for sacrificing one and doing that Keith. Is this one reason you lacquered that washita in the other thread? Do you use oil on Arkansas stones yourself? I seem to recall in one of your videos you using something else.
Any ark I've ever used (for sharpening knives mind you) I've used oil on so is the desired effect for the oil to be embedded in a razor hone? I honestly don't think so but I'm ignorant... That's my uneducated speculation... If it is desired (which again I'm thinking not) why not emerse it in the oil under vacuum and allow it to go to the core? AGAIN I AM ignorant so please forgive me. I always degrease/deglaze my hard ark knife sharpener with denatured alcohol it gets all of the honing oils off. I wonder if putting said hone in a alcohol bath under vac would release the oil (if it's not wanted) interesting hmmm. Sorry for the rambling...
Great photo, Gamma. Thanks for taking the time to present this to us. I'm curious about the lighter strip on the face marked "front." What is to account for the lack of oil seepage there?
Labels were wax coated. Looks like oil only penetrates a few mm (this is a function of stone porosity). The side facing camera was cut to demonstrate penetration, the side with the line is where a side label was... that face absorbed oil directly, hence the deeper and perfectly straight line of saturation.
It's about what I expected given my need to cycle to strip them fully and what precipitates out of ones plugged to a typical level
FWIW, here are three shots I took a few years back of an old Pike lily white in which the labels had fallen off during storage. The stone has always seemed cream-colored to me, rather than white. Maybe it was a faint seepage of oil beneath the labels?
David has seen the results of my ocd level washita strips. You can get those things gleaming white if they are that type.
Yeah, and I don’t think I’d believed it if I hadn’t seen it. Gleaming is the right word.
Cycling is the only way. Chem strip for a time, out, let it dry, rinse it out with plenty of water, dry the surfaces and either pack it in something like salt in Tupperware or wrap it in paper towels like I do and seal it in tupperware. Once that goes all brown like you spilled coffee and wiped it up, repeat the cycle. Works for hindos as well. Some outliers never really want to give everything up once the oil is in there but I haven't had that with arks. I have gotten washitas to the point where you can throw water on top and in any kind of light you don't get any trace of oil be it trails or rainbow. It isn't that crucial since they need oil or something water soluble and similarly bulked up to stay open, but it was a fun challenge and I have applied some tactics to other types of rocks.
Some arks are just yellow or bone colored because they are... Seen pink and yellow ones, tan and yellow....
Yeah for translucent hard Arkansas stones, remember they are something like 99.8% pure silica. The density of which is 2.65g/cm³. That is also basically the density of a good dense translucent hard Arkansas stone. Not a whole lot of space in there for oil to infiltrate (read: none). A Washita is more or less like a sponge in comparison. Lots of free space for oil or whatever else to enter the stone. Should be no surprise at all to anyone familiar with them that they'd absorb plenty of oil.
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- #15
Oil does soak into translucent Arks, not as much as a washita, of course, but oil will creep into them. You don't need the penetration to be very deep to alter the overall color of the stone either. I've cut one of them also, it's clearly evident that oil creep is at least part of the butterscotch story.
Here, in this photo, the white stripe in between the oil-soaked layers is not from the label, it's from where the stone was pressed up against the inside walls of the box. The section that hosted the label was is not visible here but it was white underneath. I believe the label's glue had pentrated the stone well enough to keep that area clear of oil.
The upper oil-soaked layer is the part of the stone that was exposed in the box. The lower oil soaked section of this piece was caused by the stone sitting in a pond of excess oil that ran off the top.
I sealed that other Washita to keep the grunge from making the sides and bottom of the stone ugly. I reprofiled a bunch of knives lately and the amount of swarf was overwhelming. I can always lap embedded swarf off the top easily enough if I need to. Lately I have been toggling between a water soluble honing medium and water mixed with a bit of soap. Both clean up 100% with soap/water and a scrubby pad.
Here, in this photo, the white stripe in between the oil-soaked layers is not from the label, it's from where the stone was pressed up against the inside walls of the box. The section that hosted the label was is not visible here but it was white underneath. I believe the label's glue had pentrated the stone well enough to keep that area clear of oil.
The upper oil-soaked layer is the part of the stone that was exposed in the box. The lower oil soaked section of this piece was caused by the stone sitting in a pond of excess oil that ran off the top.
I sealed that other Washita to keep the grunge from making the sides and bottom of the stone ugly. I reprofiled a bunch of knives lately and the amount of swarf was overwhelming. I can always lap embedded swarf off the top easily enough if I need to. Lately I have been toggling between a water soluble honing medium and water mixed with a bit of soap. Both clean up 100% with soap/water and a scrubby pad.
Thanks for the explanation. Some of the Arkansas stones and Washitas were sold in cedar boxes, and gassing from cedar oil can also change a stone's color on the surface. I had a couple of coticules stored in cedar boxes for around six months while I went away for an extended period; and in returning, they had really changed color! A tint that does not go way with subsequent use either.
Thank you for sharing this Gamma! Question is, will it ever be white again? I can't see that ever being possible without some truly mean chemicals. I love the brown color myself and look for that coloration when on the bay. I wonder how many vintage, used and abused Lily Whites are passed over because they are now brown?
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- #18
Not sure if it will return to white, it might, but it could stay tinted also. The coloring isn't really important, I don't sweat the pearly white thing, seems like a huge waste of time to me. I just need the thick dry waxy and gummy gunk embedded in the stone to be pulled out.
Oil in a Washita can be a good thing, but gunk in a Washita never is. Even so, they don't usually ever 'need' to be made white again. They usually only need to be cleared enough to open up the stone's grain and pores so it can cut but cut evenly. Most Washita do not perform best when dry and new and sparkly white. The smear on the stone in the photo is telling; the build up in the pores is very thick and waxy. And that stone soaked in SG for a solid week before I cut it. It'll be in the bath for at least another week too
Oil in a Washita can be a good thing, but gunk in a Washita never is. Even so, they don't usually ever 'need' to be made white again. They usually only need to be cleared enough to open up the stone's grain and pores so it can cut but cut evenly. Most Washita do not perform best when dry and new and sparkly white. The smear on the stone in the photo is telling; the build up in the pores is very thick and waxy. And that stone soaked in SG for a solid week before I cut it. It'll be in the bath for at least another week too
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