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Offensive native american mascots

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You have to be able to look at any issue from the other guy's point of view. Can I see how people who have been dumped on by the United States for the entire history of the country might not consider their use as a cartoon mascot to be very respectful? Yeah, I can. Skimming over the Wikipedia article on UND athletics, that lack of respect comes through loud and clear. It's painfully obvious why the university didn't get the NCAA waiver when other schools did.


The university got approval from 1 tribe, and the other tribe elders didn't allow a public vote. The sioux nation is very supportive of the university and the mascot. Many are speaking out about it as well.
 
It's probably better that all ethnic sports teams are avoided. I grew up in Illinois, home of the Pekin Chinks (yes) complete with a dancing Asian at half time. The Chink was retired in the 1980's. Of course, the UofI is still the Fighting Illini but the Chief no longer dances at 1/2 time.
 
The university got approval from 1 tribe, and the other tribe elders didn't allow a public vote. The sioux nation is very supportive of the university and the mascot. Many are speaking out about it as well.

If the Sioux Nation is supportive of the mascot, why did the NCAA feel the need to interfere?

It seems like their ruling solved a problem that didn't exist in the first place.
 
Here is a picture of something that I think shows how sacred this mascot was to UND. This arena was built on the donation of one man, Ralph Engelstad, and it cost almost 110 million dollars. He donated the money so that there could be an arena that showed how the University had influenced him. He built this. It is sold out, every single game.

Search for the Ralph Engelstad Arena to see more.

$game.jpg
 
And the university is now in the process of voting for a new nickname. The choice are: Nodaks, North Stars, Roughriders, Sundogs, and Fighting Hawks. The vote takes place this week. There have been lots of news stories about this if anyone is interested.
 

luvmysuper

My elbows leak
Staff member
The saddest part is that people are in fact attached to the names of their teams and what they have become accustomed to.
The generosity of Mr. Engelstad is an example of that very thing.
Unfortunately, some of these team names should never have started to begin with. Once all ethnic references have been purged, then a new generation will grow up with the new names.
If someone were to suggest changing the name then, they will fight as emphatically as the generation now is doing, because for them, it will be as with us - a matter of what we have become accustomed to.
 
Tuesday Morning Quarterback list of alternate names:

"TMQ" team nicknames

Easterbrook refers to teams by nicknames or "cognomen", such as "Potomac Drainage Basin Indigenous Persons" (Washington Redskins) and "Arizona CAUTION: MAY CONTAIN FOOTBALL-LIKE SUBSTANCE Cardinals" (Arizona Cardinals). The nicknames are usually used only if a team is struggling or if the team made a boneheaded play that cost them a game. One exception is the Redskins, whom Easterbrook criticized because of the team's Native American mascot. The nicknames also extends into college football, calling the Miami Hurricanes the "Miami Tropical Storms" having been downgraded from a hurricane to a tropical storm, likely in reference to the 2011 scandal.[SUP][4][/SUP]
Beginning with the 2014 season, Easterbrook largely abandoned cognomens for teams, preferring to call the teams by their actual names. Exceptions were made for the Redskins (whose nickname has gotten more mainstream controversy in recent years) and teams that play a considerable distance from their home city like the Giants, Jets, and 49ers.
TeamNickname(s)Explanation
Arizona CardinalsArizona of Mexico CardinalsDuring the 2005 season Arizona played a "home" game in Mexico City, drawing far more spectators than the team typically managed to in Arizona.
Arizona Cactus WrensThe cactus wren is the official state bird of Arizona.
Arizona (CAUTION: MAY CONTAIN FOOTBALL-LIKE SUBSTANCE) CardinalsThe franchise is a historically poor performer in the NFL.
Arizona (Contains Powerful Football Substance) CardinalsArizona's 2008-2009 playoff run prompted a deserved name change.
Atlanta FalconsAtlanta TyposThe Atlanta uniforms resemble errant smudges on a printing run.
The Angry BirdsIn reference to the popular video game of the same name, the nickname was given in 2011 after the Falcons had the NFC's best record in 2010 only to be blown out in their only playoff game that year by the eventual Super Bowl champion Green Bay Packers, hinting that the Falcons are "angry". No mention of the Typos nickname in the post, combined that the all-black uniforms were replaced by the team's 1966 throwback uniform as the team's third uniform in 2009, hinting that the Typos name may have been retired.[SUP][5][/SUP]
Baltimore RavensThe NevermoresEdgar Allan Poe was a famous resident of Baltimore and his poem "The Raven" was the inspiration for the team's name. The poem is well known for its repeated use of the word "nevermore".
Buffalo BillsBuffaloEasterbrook currently does not have an official nickname for the Bills and only identifies the team by its home city. He briefly used the name "Budgies" in 2008, but no longer does. In the late 2000s he made frequent references to the team's Ivy League ties (QB/Harvard graduate Ryan Fitzpatrick, GM/Harvard grad Marv Levy and coach/Yale grad Dick Jauron) by using a mock Boston Brahmin conversational style. In a 2011 column he called the Bills the "Buffalo Williams," since "Bill" is a common nickname for William.
Chicago BearsMing Ding XiongMandarin for "bears whose outcomes are decided by fate". Their recent successful seasons had several games won on "lucky" plays, or decided by fate.
Cincinnati BengalsCincinnati Tootsie-RollsThe black and orange uniforms resemble a Tootsie Roll wrapper.
Cincinnati Trick or TreatsBlack and orange are typically the dominant colors of Halloween decor.
Cleveland BrownsCleveland Browns (Release 3.0b)Originally nicknamed "Release 2.0" when Cleveland first regained its NFL franchise, the version number was incremented when Romeo Crennel became head coach.
(also Cleveland Oranges, Release 3.0b)The Browns also wore all-orange uniforms from time to time, leading to the Oranges nickname, but no longer wear the orange jerseys. The name is also a dig to the fairly drastic reorganizations and retooling of the Cleveland roster over recent years.
Detroit LionsDetroit PeugeotsThe lion logo resembles the logo of the Peugeot Motor Company, which is ironic because the team is owned by the Ford family.
The Cowardly LionsA reference to their tendency to punt on fourth downs as opposed to trying to achieve a first down, a move which Easterbrook detests.
Detroit EdselsReferring to Ford's infamous late-1950s automotive flop; an obvious jab at both the Lions' long history of futility and the Ford family ownership.
Denver BroncosDenver CursorsThe Broncos' uniform contains a bright orange stripe, described as a cursor when viewed on TV.[SUP][6][/SUP]
Denver Broncos High SchoolUsed late in the 2011 season to refer to the offense installed by John Fox to accommodate Tim Tebow, a run-oriented read-option scheme that at the time was widely popular in American high schools.[SUP][7][/SUP]
Houston TexansThe Moo CowsThe team's logo is essentially a stylized cow.
Indianapolis ColtsThe Lucky CharmsThe horseshoe logo resembles a marshmallow shape from Lucky Charms cereal.
Kansas City ChiefsThe FlintstonesThe stone arrowhead logo resembles carved, stone age items seen in the cartoon.
Miami DolphinsMarine MammalsThough the Dolphins are often referred to as "the fish", dolphins are actually mammals.
The South Florida DolphinsThe Dolphins currently do not play in Miami proper. They play in Sun Life Stadium in Miami Gardens, 15 miles north of downtown.
Genetically Engineered SurimiIntroduced by Easterbrook in an April 23, 2013 column in which he mocked the team's recent logo change, saying "The Dolphins' new helmet emblem looks like the logo for a brand of genetically engineered surimi." Easterbrook also uses "Frozen Surimi".[SUP][8][/SUP]
Minnesota VikingsHyperboreansThe Hyperboreans were a mythical barbaric people in Greek mythology. Today the term can be used for any people who live in a cold climate, as the Vikings did.
New England PatriotsFlying ElviiThe team logo resembles an airborne Elvis Presley, and Easterbrook reasons that Elvii is the plural of Elvis. The team itself has admitted that the logo is modeled after Presley.
New Orleans SaintsThe SinnersIn 2012, it was revealed that the Saints were involved in a very "unsaintly" bounty scandal.
United States SaintsFollowing Hurricane Katrina the Saints were without a home field for an entire season, and were adopted by the rest of the country.
The Boy ScoutsThe fleur-de-lis logo used by the Saints is similar to the logo of the Boy Scouts of America.
New York GiantsJersey/AThe Giants actually play in New Jersey. MetLife Stadium (originally New Meadowlands Stadium) is located in East Rutherford, NJ, next to the team's now-demolished former venue, Giants Stadium. The "A" likely refers to the fact that the Giants were the first of the two New York teams to move to New Jersey (in 1976, as opposed to the Jets, who did not move until 1984) and also were sole owners of Giants Stadium, with the Jets as their tenants (both teams jointly own the new stadium). As for the stadium, Easterbrook began calling it "Snoopy Stadium" in his October 12, 2011 column, referring to the character's use as MetLife's advertising mascot.
The G-PersonsThe Giants are commonly referred to as the G-Men. Because some of the people in the Giants organization are women as well, G-Persons is more politically correct.
New York JetsJersey/BThe Jets play in New Jersey as well; as noted above, they were tenants of the Giants from 1984 through 2009, before the opening of MetLife Stadium. When the Jets played at home in Giants Stadium, announcers referred to the venue as The Meadowlands, in reference to the Meadowlands sports complex in which the stadium is located.
Oakland RaidersOakland Long JohnsAfter the pirate of that name.
Philadelphia EaglesThe NesharimPhiladelphia has the sole logo that faces right to left and "nesharim" means "eagles" in Hebrew, which is also read right to left.
The HeatEasterbrook decided to give the Nesharim nickname a break for 2011 after the team signed several Pro Bowl-caliber players after the end of the 2011 NFL lockout. The name is in reference to the Miami Heat of the NBA, which the previous year made its own rash of free agent signings.[SUP][5][/SUP] Easterbrook returned to "Nesharim" after LeBron James left the Heat to return to Cleveland in 2014.
Pittsburgh SteelersThe HypocycloidsThe team logo features three hypocycloids.
San Diego ChargersBoltsThe San Diego logo resembles a bolt of lightning.
San Francisco 49ersSquared SevensSeven is the square root of 49. From the 2011-2012 season Coach Jim Harbaugh also gained a nickname as Harbaugh/West in reference to his brother (mentioned as Harbaugh-East in the August 23 column) coaching the Baltimore Ravens.
Santa ClaraIn 2014, the 49ers moved from San Francisco to Levi's Stadium in Santa Clara.
Seattle SeahawksBlue-ish Men Group (formerly Blue Men Group)The Seahawks wear entirely blue uniforms. By contrast, most teams wear uniforms whose pants and jerseys are different colors. The name is a reference to the Blue Man Group, whose performers wear black clothes but cover all exposed skin with blue. In response to the radical overhaul of the Seahawks uniform by Nike in 2012, Easterbrook added the suffix "ish" to the nickname to describe their new color scheme.
Green Men GroupThe alternate nickname always appears when they wear their green alternate uniform, though the nickname has made several appearances in the 2009 season even when they wear other uniforms.
St. Louis RamsLes MouflonsA mouflon is a type of sheep whose curved horns are often mistakenly used as a depiction of ram horns. Dubbed after a series of what Easterbrook considered poorly played games by St. Louis.
Tampa Bay BuccaneersCity of Tampa BuccaneersThe team actually plays in the City of Tampa, Tampa Bay being a body of water.
Tennessee TitansFlaming ThumbtacksThe team logo bears an uncanny resemblance to a thumbtack with a flame on the top. This nickname was first used by a reader of the original TMQ column with the username of Rib Eye.
Washington RedskinsPotomac Drainage Basin Indigenous PersonsThe Redskins are headquartered in Ashburn, Virginia and play in Landover, Maryland, but have no facilities in the nation's capital itself. Indigenous Persons, now occasionally shortened to just "Persons", was used to avoid the more controversial Redskins. Easterbrook's original nickname made reference to the Chesapeake Bay, but later changed to the more accurate Potomac River since the Chesapeake Bay area also covered the Baltimore Ravens, with its watershed going all the way up to Pennsylvania state.
(also Washington Nanticokes)The Nanticoke are the tribe indigenous to the area. Easterbrook briefly switched back to calling the team the Washington Redskins out of respect for Joe Gibbs when he initially came back, but after the poorly-played 2004 season, he switched back to the other names.
R*dsk*nsEasterbrook began using this term in the 2013 season alongside "Indigenous Persons", when media focus on the team name escalated.
 
The name was ceremoniously given to the University by the tribes in 1930, so to say that they should not have started to begin with is incorrect. At that time (and still to this day) it was an honor to be a UND fighting sioux, both academically and athletically. It is not just our generation that wants to keep it how it is. It is the past generations, past alumni, all the way up to kids just growing up, going to their first hockey game wearing a toddler "Sioux" jersey. In our city it is more than just a name.
 
The university got approval from 1 tribe, and the other tribe elders didn't allow a public vote. The sioux nation is very supportive of the university and the mascot. Many are speaking out about it as well.
It's a shame all parties involved couldn't come to a solution that everyone could be happy with.
 
A couple of years ago when all the hoopla about the Washington Redskins mascot name was going on, I asked a Native American guy I work with who lives on The Rez what everybody over there thought about it. He laughed and said, "Nobody cares about the name. It's just a bunch of white people on the internet with nothing better to do talking for us."

In honor of Ad Astra's sensible comments above. Mohawk haircuts? War paint? My God, these guys should be sued. If they're not still alive, their children should be sued for showing such blatant disrespect.........

 
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A couple of years ago when all the hoopla about the Washington Redskins mascot name was going on, I asked a Native American guy I work with who lives on The Rez what everybody over there thought about it. He laughed and said, "Nobody cares about the name. It's just a bunch of white people on the internet with nothing better to do talking for us."

In honor of Ad Astra's sensible comments above. Mohawk haircuts? War paint? My God, these guys should be sued. If they're not still alive, their children should be sued for showing such blatant disrespect.........


Well, it was Native Americans who made the request to Dan Snyder to change the name to something less offensive, so I'd have to say your friend from the rez doesn't speak for everyone. Honestly, the name Redskins should never have happened in the first place, but as Phil stated, there are so many diehard Redskins fans now, they don't want to see their team name changed no matter how offensive it is.

To the OP, I don't see how the name Sioux is offensive at all. It's the name of a tribe with a proud heritage and the mascot name is apparently supported by the tribe. No different than the Seminoles in my opinion.
 
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Well, it was Native Americans who made the request to Dan Snyder to change the name to something less offensive, so I'd have to say your friend from the rez doesn't speak for everyone.

To me, the term "Redskins" being a generalization is more potentially offensive than a particular tribe name so I can see more controversy surrounding it. While the guy I know might not speak for everyone, he didn't seem to appreciate people speaking for him, either. It's like his opinion that the name Redskins is okay makes him "wrong." He's Native American, damnit. He should hate the name Redskins."
 
To me, the term "Redskins" being a generalization is more potentially offensive than a particular tribe name so I can see more controversy surrounding it. While the guy I know might not speak for everyone, he didn't seem to appreciate people speaking for him, either. It's like his opinion that the name Redskins is okay makes him "wrong." He's Native American, damnit. He should hate the name Redskins."

It's okay to not be offended, and I imagine he's an individual that is not easily offended. But there's no disputing the fact that there are people who are offended by the name.
 
It's okay to not be offended, and I imagine he's an individual that is not easily offended. But there's no disputing the fact that there are people who are offended by the name.

Yes, there are a lot of people who are offended by the name. He's an easy-going guy as are most people from the Iowa Tribe that I know. His comment was directed more toward non-Native Americans that became involved. I can see his point, but I guess you don't have to be a Native American to be offended by the name. I guess you can either be offended by the name because you feel it is an insult to you, or you can be offended because you feel it insults somebody else.

Or, you can truly not care either way and get involved and pronounce your involvement to the world online because it's the "in" thing to do even if you've never given Native Americans a grain of thought your entire life up until that point. I like to show my support by drinking copious amounts of beer and hitting the buffet at their local casino. Money talks, as they say. I'll leave the Sports Team Name Change Petitions up to them.......
 
You can read some of the names rejected here.

Some funny ones with their rationale:
  • Angry White Crackers rationale? everyone thinks it's ok to have mascots insinuating native americans. why not have a mascot that insinuates white americans?
  • ATTORNIES With this name, we fans can still yell, SUE, SUE, SUE.
  • Big 'ol Pussies The People and Government of ND showed what spineless cowards they are by laying down to the daft PC crowd.Nice Job! / Go Pussies! (Just
  • Fighting Irish Notre Dame has been getting away with it for 88 years, why can't we?
 

luvmysuper

My elbows leak
Staff member
The name was ceremoniously given to the University by the tribes in 1930, so to say that they should not have started to begin with is incorrect. At that time (and still to this day) it was an honor to be a UND fighting sioux, both academically and athletically. It is not just our generation that wants to keep it how it is. It is the past generations, past alumni, all the way up to kids just growing up, going to their first hockey game wearing a toddler "Sioux" jersey. In our city it is more than just a name.

To be fair, the school newspapers at the time indicate the change was due to the fact that no one was enamored of the winning spirit of a ground squirrel, which was the official team name till then (Flickertails).
They didn't have the name the "Fighting Sioux" originally.
In fact, the "Fighting" part wasn't added till 1999.
While there is anecdotal evidence that some ceremony took place in the 1930's where the name was bestowed upon the University in perpetuity by local tribes, there is no hard evidence that can be produced to confirm this.
With nothing to confirm that the local tribes did so, there is room to debate that it actually occurred. A simple solution to the problem was to petition the tribes for use of the name. As you mention, this attempt to obtain approval from the local tribes was not successful, despite three years of effort.

I understand the feelings that people have for the names of their sports teams, I really do, and I'm sympathetic to the sense of loss that you and the UND alumni feel about the name change.
But that doesn't make it ok to, in some peoples eyes, cheapen their ethnicity or race so alumni can continue to feel good about their sports team.
It's a sports team after all, and the people offended are offended because their race and ethnicity has been adopted by others for what they consider to be a trivial purpose.
 
It is an honor for badass American weapon systems, elite groups, aircraft and anything else we're proud of to be named after the Original American People.

Actual warriors rise so far above political correctness that it is correctly thought to be of no more importance "than a dog pissing on a tipi," as one scornful brave once said.

Who wouldn't want to be so remembered and honored?

"Geronimo!" was on the lips of American paratroopers as they jumped into Nazi-occupied areas. This was in honor of the fighting men of old before them: a worthy enemy once, now a part of who we are as Americans.

Some groups seek to divide us as Americans by highlighting differences. It is who we are together, now, as Americans, that matters.

So it is with the southern rebels. Let them keep their flag, I say, while truth is being spoken here. It is theirs. Their forefathers fought and died for it.

The media makes its money and increases its political masters power by dividing us into squabbling groups, each no longer considering itself American- only hyphenated-American. Who profits from us fighting each other? Only our enemies. See the truth.


AA

Well spoken brother...well spoken
 
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