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Objectivity - hold your horses...

I'll start by saying that if it were for objectivity, I'd still be using Nivea foam and the excellent one bladed BIC Sensitive disposable razor.

I'm not saying that this combination gives the best objective shave or comes close to traditional wet shaving. Nor am I saying that there aren't true objective guys among our members, who are able to evaluate things, well..., objectively!

What I am saying is that I don't care for the objective aspects of shaving (past a certain performance level, which I believe to be the case of at least 90% of the products used and mentioned here).

So, whenever I'm choosing a brush, a soap or a razor, there's so much more into play than the reasons I try to convince myself of. Maybe that's just me, trying to get rid of buyer's remorse or fighting some ill resolved early childhood psychological issue.

The fact is that whatever I use, buy or contemplate buying brings with it much, much more than the actual product.

When I was objectively shaving, this thing used to be a damn tedious chore! Not anymore!
 
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AimlessWanderer

Remember to forget me!
Is there any objectivity in shaving? Any at all? I can't think of anything that we universally agree on.

My best razor/blade/brush/soap/method/lather/scents might be disastrous for someone else. I do know that chasing other people's shaves, and trying samples of those soaps and creams, or indeed razors and blades, often led to disappointment. Sometimes pain.

Did you perhaps mean pragmatism instead of objectivity, Cesare? I didn't become a DE shaver by searching for luxury or enjoyment. I did so because it was cheaper than disposables and cartridge systems. Sadly, the spending modern systems were abundant, and the double edged blades were harder to find, so occasionally pragmatism led me back to the cartridges, when there was a DE blade drought on.

It was pragmatism that kept me using canned foam and gels too, even though I moved to double edged razors. I don't even remember seeing any soaps or brushes in my early years of shaving. If I had, I would most likely have saved even more money.

Pragmatism led to my current stockpiles of consumables too. I never want to face another blade drought, and now should never have to. If I do ever manage to achieve my goal of quitting online shopping, my soap stash will keep me in great shaves for over a decade too. Moisturisers and aftershave are readily available at local shops, and I have no need to order those in.

The enjoyment, luxury, scents, and other plus points of traditional shaving, were mostly a happy coincidence for me. I acknowledge, I may be in the minority there. Although I readily admit will not be the most pragmatic option should I go back to cash buying, and deplete my current stock. I'd be going on some kind of spree to replenish my stocks. :)
 
Is there any objectivity in shaving? Any at all? I can't think of anything that we universally agree on.

My best razor/blade/brush/soap/method/lather/scents might be disastrous for someone else. I do know that chasing other people's shaves, and trying samples of those soaps and creams, or indeed razors and blades, often led to disappointment. Sometimes pain.

Did you perhaps mean pragmatism instead of objectivity, Cesare? I didn't become a DE shaver by searching for luxury or enjoyment. I did so because it was cheaper than disposables and cartridge systems. Sadly, the spending modern systems were abundant, and the double edged blades were harder to find, so occasionally pragmatism led me back to the cartridges, when there was a DE blade drought on.

It was pragmatism that kept me using canned foam and gels too, even though I moved to double edged razors. I don't even remember seeing any soaps or brushes in my early years of shaving. If I had, I would most likely have saved even more money.

Pragmatism led to my current stockpiles of consumables too. I never want to face another blade drought, and now should never have to. If I do ever manage to achieve my goal of quitting online shopping, my soap stash will keep me in great shaves for over a decade too. Moisturisers and aftershave are readily available at local shops, and I have no need to order those in.

The enjoyment, luxury, scents, and other plus points of traditional shaving, were mostly a happy coincidence for me. I acknowledge, I may be in the minority there. Although I readily admit will not be the most pragmatic option should I go back to cash buying, and deplete my current stock. I'd be going on some kind of spree to replenish my stocks. :)
I don't think so, Al. (Meaning pragmatism x objectivity)

What I meant was that sometimes we strive for some sort objectivity which "misses the point". Again, I'm speaking for myself and the generalization should be interpreted from this angle.

My point was: for some reason, we (again, myself) strive for some sort of rational objectivity as if the end had to justify the means; where it's the other way around: the means are what matter but, for some reason, they wouldn't be justifiable if it were not for a clearly measurable end ("the best; the slickest; the closest; the most economical; etc).

Why do I love my Gillette Brazilian Goodwill? Is it really objectively better than my plain vanilla DE89? No. But it's light-years ahead of it because of the effect it produces on me, every morning, irrespective of the objective quality of its shave.

As Fernando Pessoa, the famous Portuguese poet said (Alberto Caeiro, one of Pessoa's heteronyms):

The Tejo is more beautiful than the river that flows through my village,

But the Tejo isn’t more beautiful than the river that flows through my village,

Because the Tejo isn’t the river that flows through my village.

 

AimlessWanderer

Remember to forget me!
I don't think so, Al. (Meaning pragmatism x objectivity)

What I meant was that sometimes we strive for some sort objectivity which "misses the point". Again, I'm speaking for myself and the generalization should be interpreted from this angle.

My point was: for some reason, we (again, myself) strive for some sort of rational objectivity as if the end had to justify the means; where it's the other way around: the means are what matter but, for some reason, they wouldn't be justifiable if it were not for a clearly measurable end ("the best; the slickest; the closest; the most economical; etc).

Why do I love my Gillette Brazilian Goodwill? Is it really objectively better than my plain vanilla DE89? No. But it's light-years ahead of it because of the effect it produces on me, every morning, irrespective of the objective quality of its shave.

As Fernando Pessoa, the famous Portuguese poet said (Alberto Caeiro, one of Pessoa's heteronyms):

The Tejo is more beautiful than the river that flows through my village,

But the Tejo isn’t more beautiful than the river that flows through my village,

Because the Tejo isn’t the river that flows through my village.


I think I'm getting nearer to your meaning, but I'm maybe not quite there yet :lol:

I tried relating it to razors and soaps, but drew a blank. Then I tried relating it to brushes...

I have three synthetics I use st home. A Maggards 22mm, a Kent INF1, and a Simpson's T2. The Kent is my hard soap brush, the Maggards my soft soap and cream brush. The Simpson is a back up that I use occasionally, just so I don't feel bad for spending that money and never using it.

The Kent is my hard soap brush, because lathering hard soap is what it does best. It just seems to have an affinity for it. I could still get just as good a lather from hard soap with the other two, probably, but the Kent just feels like a better match. Same with the Maggards and creams. It just feels right.

The Simpson handles hard soap and cream equally well, but because it doesn't seem to have a leaning for either, it gets used for neither, and sits in reserve. If I was only going to keep one brush in the bathroom, it would be the Simpson, but as I keep two brushes in there, it's the other two, because of their leaning toward specific products. It's not about "best", but what feels well matched.

Is that any nearer...?
 
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