Notes From The Edge

[Clay S]

I am both more intrigued and more put off.

The challenge I have is that my house is pretty new. All new houses in my area have their immediate area managed buy local estate companies and not by the local council. The waste water gets dealt with by two pumps at the end of our road and they are frequently breaking down because they can't handle much more than organic matter. Your comments and Clay's make me cautious about letting this stuff anywhere near my sink.

The ingredients could easily be mistaken for a soap. Aqua, Stearic Acid, Linseed Oil, Soybean Oil, Parfum, Eucalyptus Leaf Oil, Propylene Glycol, . . . long alphabetic names Not an organic soap.

Making soap easily clogs pipes when they have a lot of steric acid in them. Don't make soap in your sink.

I know that one user here is starting to use only products with SLS to reduce clogging in pipes.

 

[Seveneighth]

Friday evening shave

The Edge
The Kropp was bugging me. Two unsuccessful coticule edges and I know I know I said it would be off to Charnley Forest with it but I couldn't give up, could I?

Stone: Ardennes convex "special" coticule
More on this stone another time. I did run a progression first on my La Grosse Jaune whilst watching some European Noir detective series and drinking a maguerita. But this was less about honing seriously than partaking in the coticule vibe and stopping getting bored with the mumbling detectives and mobsters.

After a few more supporting characters had been shot and thrown off buildings I switched to the convex coticule. Interesting stone. I had no matching slurry stone, so I used a small La Verte. It was late and I wasn't really doing the progression properly which is a probably a good testament to the stones ability given the result.

The convexity was disconcerting at first. I am not sure how you are meant to hone into the slope. I ended up kind off working my way round the stone. I was glad it was a bout because the sharp corners formed a nice starting approach to the strokes. I still can't quite work out how you should address the heel though.

The thing I was not expecting was the bite. It was similar to the slowing you get on a flat coticule when the suction starts but it felt more like increased drag when I was honing into the peak.

The shave
Absolutely minimal. No preshave or paraphernalia. Mitchells, Vulfix best Badger and two passes.

The razor cut more like the Sheffield/LPB edge from earlier in the week - like it was chewing through the hairs. The resultant shave was VERY close - and still is this morning. I might have shaved too aggressively into the jaw line: lovely and smooth, but has been tender overnight.

 

[Disburden]

I'm glad it worked for you. Enjoy.

I have been reading through posts by @Disburden and trying to assimilate the techniques and recommendations he makes about dilucot with coticules. Today I decided to follow his various recommendations to the letter with my La Nouvelle Veine stone on an Ellison vintage Sheffield.

View attachment 964415

I dulled and reset the bevel using creamy slurry. I started with a heavy torque and reduced this as I felt the cut give way. Then I carefully diluted, cleaning the coticule and refreshing the slurry whenever it got too muddy with swarf. At each stage I started with torque and then when I felt the shift, dropped this right off. With each progressive stage I increased the number of no pressure strokes. I made the dilution very gradually all the way to hazy water followed by plain water. Then I stropped on canvas and went back to honing under a very very thin stream of water.

I stropped on canvas (30) and then Leather (60). At first there was no draw on the leather, but by the time I hit 30 or so strokes I could feel it.

I used Proraso preshave, then hot flannel, and Mitchell's, with an Omega 011829 brush - simply the best brush ever, period.

The edge felt like it had a bite to it - not unlike a wootz steel edge. It was like the razor was chewing its way through the stubble instead of cutting it.

I took two passes, 1. WTG 2. XTG / ATG

Spoiler: So what was the result?

Perfectly BBS everywhere. I mean, absolutely perfect. No irritation or harsh exfoliation. No weepers. And effortless in execution.

I cannot remember a shave I have enjoyed this much. This may just have been the best shave of my life.

The combination of good hardware / software, a lovely textbook coticule edge. The Sheffield + coti was absolutely lovely.

Oh and one more thing...

Spoiler

@AimlessWanderer : I hereby declare myself to be a full convert to Mitchell's

 

[Seveneighth]

I have become too used to coticule edges.

Inspired by discussions with @Chan Eil Whiskers on another thread, I thought I would break out an Ed Brice razor.

This is one of a pair I own. He made this one to match another I bought from him. They are slightly different. The first is slightly better looking but both take an insane edge. Insane because you should be committed if you choose to shave with one.

And that was the problem.

I'm so used to coticule edges at the moment, even though I was being extra careful, with the second stroke I brushed my cheek with the toe of the blade. And when I say brushed, that is what it felt like but the tip cut deep into the skin. The **** wouldn't stop bleeding. I thought I would need a plaster. After layer after layer of styptic pencil I managed to stem the flow but it left me with a nice gash and feeling like a complete idiot..

Other than that the shave was amazing!!!

 

[Clay S]

I have become too used to coticule edges.

Inspired by discussions with @Chan Eil Whiskers on another thread, I thought I would break out an Ed Brice razor.
View attachment 966180

This is one of a pair I own. He made this one to match another I bought from him. They are slightly different. The first is slightly better looking but both take an insane edge. Insane because you should be committed if you choose to shave with one.

And that was the problem.

I'm so used to coticule edges at the moment, even though I was being extra careful, with the second stroke I brushed my cheek with the toe of the blade. And when I say brushed, that is what it felt like but the tip cut deep into the skin. The **** wouldn't stop bleeding. I thought I would need a plaster. After layer after layer of styptic pencil I managed to stem the flow but it left me with a nice gash and feeling like a complete idiot..

Other than that the shave was amazing!!!

On toe cuts that I've had trouble stopping, I've discovered that they had a flap of skin preventing the styptic from getting to most of the cut. If you can get under the flap with the styptic, it can help a lot. Some things I do well, toe cuts is one of them.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

I have become too used to coticule edges.

Inspired by discussions with @Chan Eil Whiskers on another thread, I thought I would break out an Ed Brice razor.
View attachment 966180

This is one of a pair I own. He made this one to match another I bought from him. They are slightly different. The first is slightly better looking but both take an insane edge. Insane because you should be committed if you choose to shave with one.

And that was the problem.

I'm so used to coticule edges at the moment, even though I was being extra careful, with the second stroke I brushed my cheek with the toe of the blade. And when I say brushed, that is what it felt like but the tip cut deep into the skin. The **** wouldn't stop bleeding. I thought I would need a plaster. After layer after layer of styptic pencil I managed to stem the flow but it left me with a nice gash and feeling like a complete idiot..

Other than that the shave was amazing!!!

Sorry about the cut. Saying we've all been there doesn't help at all except in a misery loves company manner.

• Do you know what kind of edge (how it was honed) the razor has?
• What makes these razors take an insane edge?

I suppose I should steer you back to the coticule's sharp but smooth and comfortable edges?

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[Seveneighth]

Sorry about the cut.

There was no-one holding the razor but me, so only I am to blame. I was thinking about how Cal is going to mute the toe of his new French point and I thought to myself - no need - these French points are fine, as long as you watch the toe. THAT WAS MY MISTAKE.

• Do you know what kind of edge (how it was honed) the razor has?

Originally - Ed Brice uses synthetics I think. He might have told me in an email and if I remember correctly with tape. I saw a thread somewhere once, where he talks about the burr method. Since then I have refreshed on a Charnley Forest and then CrOx / FerOx.

• What makes these razors take an insane edge?

No idea, but I believe some razors will take a sharper edge depending on the steel. I guess good geometry also plays a part. From his website, he is very particular about the hardening process - Sheffield blanks, ground and tempered precisely. They are my best guesses.

 

[Seveneighth]

On toe cuts that I've had trouble stopping, I've discovered that they had a flap of skin preventing the styptic from getting to most of the cut. If you can get under the flap with the styptic, it can help a lot. Some things I do well, toe cuts is one of them.

Thanks for the tip. The matter was aggravated by the issue that the styptic pencil was crumbling. I didn't notice a flap but it's right in the middle of my cheek and seems to be pulled open where it is. All dried now so I got there in the end.

 

[Seveneighth]

View attachment 966193

I suppose I should steer you back to the coticule's sharp but smooth and comfortable edges?

It seems a shame to change the edge when it is so sharp. I just need to step up to it through my rotation. I have done similar switching from coticule directly to Feather AC in the past.

The progression would be something like this:

Low sharpness coticule edge
High sharp coticule edge
Natural edge on vintage Sheffield
Method Edge on Stainless
Ed Brice...

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

Thanks for all of that update and discussion.

Sounds like great steel!

So, the edge was yours and off the Charnley Forest and then CrOx / FerOx. I wonder what would happen if that edge were then run on the Coticule?

I'm sorta thinking about how some gentlemen (I believe Keith @Gamma is one of them) have talked about an Ark edge being better if it comes of a 12K than if it comes off the 8K. I wonder if a coticule edge is better if it comes off a very sharp predecessor?

Not saying I know anything at all. Merely speculating and pondering.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[Somerled]

Thanks for all of that update and discussion.

Sounds like great steel!

So, the edge was yours and off the Charnley Forest and then CrOx / FerOx. I wonder what would happen if that edge were then run on the Coticule?

I'm sorta thinking about how some gentlemen (I believe Keith @Gamma is one of them) have talked about an Ark edge being better if it comes of a 12K than if it comes off the 8K. I wonder if a coticule edge is better if it comes off a very sharp predecessor?

Not saying I know anything at all. Merely speculating and pondering.

Happy shaves,

Jim

There is something in that.
When using the DrMatt (under running water) method, the outcome seems to be better the sharper the blade is to begin with.
I was playing around with that just before FFFMM started.

The list of things I want to do starting on the 1st of April is growing daily.

 

[Seveneighth]

Thanks for all of that update and discussion.

Sounds like great steel!

So, the edge was yours and off the Charnley Forest and then CrOx / FerOx. I wonder what would happen if that edge were then run on the Coticule?

I'm sorta thinking about how some gentlemen (I believe Keith @Gamma is one of them) have talked about an Ark edge being better if it comes of a 12K than if it comes off the 8K. I wonder if a coticule edge is better if it comes off a very sharp predecessor?

Not saying I know anything at all. Merely speculating and pondering.

Happy shaves,

Jim

Perhaps it depends on the coticule. A slow fine finisher would probably be better after a 12k.

 

[Seveneighth]

Today's shave was very nice. Back to a Dovo Master's, Mitchells and best Badger.

The edge was a Dilucot but using my favourite natural stone technique of running two stones in sequence with overlapping progressions. I'll explain another day. It's too late now. A really comfortable edge.

 

[Seveneighth]

Very busy at the moment and not much time to post.

Great shaves over the last two days. A (different) vintage Kropp each day. The edges were from a new coticule. It's a very hard stone. The noisiest I have come across. Sounded like I was dragging an iron bar down the pavement but improved after I had created slurry a few times with a La Verte slurry stone.

Nice sharp edges on both razors from a dilucot progression.

 

[Seveneighth]

The one sure way I have found to use natural stones and get a great edge is to use two or more in succession and to overlap them in terms of their grit effect. This works especially well with the Welsh stone progression and maybe I'll post about that another time.

For coticules I have a couple of stones that cut fast with slurry and others that finish well.

I run a full dilucot progression finishing on water with the fast stone, strop and then go back to a lighter slurry with the finisher and take it right through to running water.

This overlap works more effectively than just using them in sequence:

At each stage I now start with pressure and ease off, and increase the amount of laps each time I move to a new stage as recommended by @Disburden

@Disburden talks about feeling the cut change. Since following his advice I think I feel two changes within the stage - once during the heavier torque before I drop the pressure and a second one before I move to the next stage.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

The one sure way I have found to use natural stones and get a great edge is to use two or more in succession and to overlap them in terms of their grit effect. This works especially well with the Welsh stone progression and maybe I'll post about that another time.

For coticules I have a couple of stones that cut fast with slurry and others that finish well.

I run a full dilucot progression finishing on water with the fast stone, strop and then go back to a lighter slurry with the finisher and take it right through to running water.

This overlap works more effectively than just using them in sequence:

View attachment 966950
At each stage I now start with pressure and ease off, and increase the amount of laps each time I move to a new stage as recommended by @Disburden

@Disburden talks about feeling the cut change. Since following his advice I think I feel two changes within the stage - once during the heavier torque before I drop the pressure and a second one before I move to the next stage.
View attachment 966952

I'm not really at all sure 100% sure I don't entirely understand what you're saying here, but I'm sure you understand it.

It's a great post though. I will look for more posts using this method and your current understanding of what the method is about and am certain my understanding will increase.

Fairly often in my life I tell people I don't understand. Usually that means I believe they don't make sense because they don't know what they're talking about or because nobody understands or knows enough about they subject at hand to make it make sense or they're not being clear. Sometimes I say I know you know what you're talking about but I don't know yet what you're talking about. The second of these is what I'm saying now; I know you know, but I do not.

That's a compliment. If it sounds critical it's because I'm not smart enough to get your meaning.

It's been said that The Method (lapping on film) is very cookbook. Honing on stones sure is not (as best I can tell) cookbook at all, but that doesn't mean it can't be outlined as well as The Method or sufficiently well. Synthetics are probably in-between the two.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[Seveneighth]

I'm not really at all sure 100% sure I don't entirely understand what you're saying here, but I'm sure you understand it.

It's a great post though. I will look for more posts using this method and your current understanding of what the method is about and am certain my understanding will increase.

Fairly often in my life I tell people I don't understand. Usually that means I believe they don't make sense because they don't know what they're talking about or because nobody understands or knows enough about they subject at hand to make it make sense or they're not being clear. Sometimes I say I know you know what you're talking about but I don't know yet what you're talking about. The second of these is what I'm saying now; I know you know, but I do not.

That's a compliment. If it sounds critical it's because I'm not smart enough to get your meaning.

It's been said that The Method (lapping on film) is very cookbook. Honing on stones sure is not (as best I can tell) cookbook at all, but that doesn't mean it can't be outlined as well as The Method or sufficiently well. Synthetics are probably in-between the two.

Happy shaves,

Jim

I'll explain it better another time - if you are interested. Just really busy this week and you know it takes longer to write something clearly

 

[Somerled]

The one sure way I have found to use natural stones and get a great edge is to use two or more in succession and to overlap them in terms of their grit effect. This works especially well with the Welsh stone progression and maybe I'll post about that another time.

For coticules I have a couple of stones that cut fast with slurry and others that finish well.

I run a full dilucot progression finishing on water with the fast stone, strop and then go back to a lighter slurry with the finisher and take it right through to running water.

This overlap works more effectively than just using them in sequence:

View attachment 966950
At each stage I now start with pressure and ease off, and increase the amount of laps each time I move to a new stage as recommended by @Disburden

@Disburden talks about feeling the cut change. Since following his advice I think I feel two changes within the stage - once during the heavier torque before I drop the pressure and a second one before I move to the next stage.
View attachment 966952

I think I understand what your getting at here and trying to do.

For me, right now, I have three coticules. Two of which I have trouble telling apart and the other (La Rose) is nothing like the others.
Going to have to play more with them and decide which is which and where I would put them in an overlap. Like you have done.

 

[Seveneighth]

I think I understand what your getting at here and trying to do.

For me, right now, I have three coticules. Two of which I have trouble telling apart and the other (La Rose) is nothing like the others.
Going to have to play more with them and decide which is which and where I would put them in an overlap. Like you have done.

The overlap works better with the Welsh stones.

It's simply:

Dragons Tongue slurry to as far as it will go on water / soapy water
The same with the purple
Then the "Thuringen"

Then I repeat the cycle.

This probably shows me up to be a poor honer in some way, but moving from a finer surface back to a lower grit seems to make a big difference.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

I'll explain it better another time - if you are interested. Just really busy this week and you know it takes longer to write something clearly

Hey, no worries. I'll just follow along.

I see (elsewhere) what you've been busy with. Blaming it on me and Cal, too, for shame.

You are going to learn a huge amount about these stones, even more than you already know. Very impressive.

Happy shaves,

Jim