Not getting clean cuts

[sliverstorm]

I started with a straight a few years ago, and was having a bad time, so I switched to a DE to get used to things without worrying so much about sharpening/honing and blade angle.

Now I'm trying my straight again, and things are still not much better. I think the main problem is rooted in how the blades are going over my face. My DE just goes, "swish, swish", flying over my face with essentially zero resistance. My straight, no matter how I use it, requires a little more force and makes this grating sound as it passes over my face. The results are never very good; the hairs feel incredibly sharp as they grow back out the next day (I suspect they are not being cut flat & flush, and are instead either jagged or cut at an angle) and I break out on the sides of my chin.

I thought it was my blade; "it must be too dull!". After several attempts of sharpening myself, I sent it to a honemeister, but things were no different (at least that means my sharpening wasn't terrible?).

It's frustrating. I only rarely nick myself. I should be able to do this.

Right now I am thinking it must either be my angle of attack or my stropping. I used to think my prep (soap, brush, etc) might be poor, but while it probably is, my DE sure doesn't care. Currently I am trying to mimic the angle on my DE, which seems to be something like 45 degrees. As for stropping, one major question in my mind- do I need chemicals? Right now I just use a fabric/leather strop, dry. I don't want to get all fancy if I don't have to. Maybe it gives you a 5% better shave to use a stropping compound, but I need a lot more than 5% improvement here.

 

[cb91710]

45 degrees is WAY too steep.
The blade should be almost flat on your face.
You aren't shaving... you are scraping, and destroying the edge.

At this point, the blade likely needs to be honed to bring the edge back.
You do not need chemicals for stropping if you are finishing on a stone higher than 10k.

 

[sliverstorm]

The blade should be almost flat on your face.

Hmm... But that always takes even more force, and my DE's edge certainly doesn't go at that kind of angle.

Oh, and in the past when I tried almost-flat-to-face, the blade wouldn't always bite- I could have a day or two of stubble, and it wouldn't cut barely any of it.

 

[cb91710]

Don't know what to say, that's how I've been doing it and it works great.
Angle should be about 30 degrees for a DE, closer to 20 for a straight.

 

[Relentless]

I've been working my way through some of the same problems and have been using my DE more as of late. I just can't be running around the office with the shave I was getting with the straight.

I haven't quite figured it out yet. A honemeister did sharpen it so I wrote it off as **** poor technique on my part. The blade didn't hold the edge so I picked up a coticule, which I now get HHT2 or 3 off of, and I still have some of the same difficulties. My blade is almost flat to my face though. I don't think there's a magic bullet, but I've been sorely tempted to pick up a quarter hollow or wedge to see if that may help mow down the steely whiskers on my damn face.

I've not given up on straights, but my practice is on a simmer until I finish some more experimentation.

 

[gsurko]

It takes time to learn any skill, listen to the advice you get here and give yourself time to master your technique. I played with straight shaving for a couple of years doing pretty much what you did and making myself unhappy with the outcome, then one day I went all in and said a "straight and nothing but a straight until I figure this out". Well after awhile it all started making sense and I could comprehend what the fine folks on this forum were saying ( Info overload). Now I'm getting wonderful DFS' on a consistent basis and I now understand what an enjoyable shave is. Hang in there, give it a chance, it's worth it.

 

[cb91710]

Same here.
Carts for too many years. In late 2011, I switched to DE. I was only 3 brands (6 blades) into my sample pack with my new R41... about 3 weeks... when I switched to a straight. Boker stainless from Bullgoose, honed by their contract guy (I think his name is Sham, very well known).
First shave, I did 3 passes, then used the DE for final cleanup.
The next night, I vowed to complete the shave with the straight and nothing but and that's what I did.

Since then, I haven't used a DE. I've only gone back to carts when I've been in a rush, or not feeling well and not wanting to focus.
As the last year has gone on, I've found I'm backing up to the carts less when rushed and only using them when I'm just not feeling well... maybe 3 times in the last 6 months is it.

I still use the Mach-3 for my head, but if I've had a few days off work and have let it grow, I'll use the straight to mow down the bulk of the growth before turning to the cart for the final buffing and cleanup. The straight is just too difficult to maneuver around my ears.

 

[smalltank]

flat againast your face for the first pass is also recommended...

 

[ladykate]

Hollow straights will be noisy compared to a DE. 45 degrees is too steep. Flat is too shallow (imho). Smalltank's diagram is close to what I experience. If you used 45 degrees then the blade is probably dulled a bit. Try a Sextoblade. It might help you get the angles down and you will be able to swap out blades easily (and they won't be blood-letting sharp like a shavette). Get used to the best angles and then get your regular straight honed up nice and sharp and enjoy. Experience is the key. You can't do it a few times and expect anything great.

BTW: I use pastes to keep the razor in tune. Pastes are OK even after a finishing stone. I've only been arrested by the straight razor police a few times and they haven't booked me on that one as yet.

FWIW: When I first started, I used single wtg passes until I could get a shave that was close to an M3 single pass. After a while, I graduated to three passes and can easily beat an M3 for closeness and smoothness but I still have some trouble around my lips and corners of my mouth. I have to work at it if I just use the straight. I will often finish those areas with a DE.

 

[cb91710]

I'm not saying that you can't use pastes after a finishing stone... it's just not something that is needed to get a good edge, and some people find they can be a bit harsh, as it is possible to get "too sharp".
I haven't touched any pastes since I started honing on my Coticule last July... and I'm really not convinced that the paste was a help when I was finishing on a Naniwa 12k and C12k.

 

[Kentos]

The DE is like, half, the width of a straight, so assume it will take twice the linear force of your DE. It also sounds like with your 45 angle the thing is dulled by the end of the first pass. Try sharpening up the blade again and going with a flatter angle. TBO my straights glide over my face quite nicely without need for "force" or whatever.

 

[global_dev]

View attachment 326154

wow, these triplets eyes look menacing... although the one on the right looks like he might crack a smirk soon.


OP if you would like you can send your straight to me. I'll check the current edge and see if it requires something or other.. PM if interested. The offer stands for 60 days from this post such that you can try more experiments before you decide what to do

 

[1holegrouper]

The 30 degrees assumes a couple of things. One that you are not working on a sharp curve on your face and also that your whiskers jut out at a normal angle. Either of these factors may justify modifying your angle a bit. After getting your blades back from the honemeister you probably stroped them before you shaved. There could be a problem there. Was the strop properly taut? Was the pressure of heel and edge of the blade on the strop not excessive? etc. There are so many factors that can hinder a smooth tug free shave. It seems like your challenge may not be one of the usual suspects but with patient experimentation you will find it eventually. Then you become a guru.

 

[KMan]

45 degrees is WAY too steep.
The blade should be almost flat on your face.
You aren't shaving... you are scraping, and destroying the edge.

At this point, the blade likely needs to be honed to bring the edge back.
You do not need chemicals for stropping if you are finishing on a stone higher than 10k.

bang on id say, 45 degrees is too steep and will roll the edge, i never go past 30 degrees and have it almost flat to my face atg and xtg.

probably just bad technique, take care when stropping as well as one bad stroke can pretty much destroy the edge

 

[KMan]

It takes time to learn any skill, listen to the advice you get here and give yourself time to master your technique. I played with straight shaving for a couple of years doing pretty much what you did and making myself unhappy with the outcome, then one day I went all in and said a "straight and nothing but a straight until I figure this out". Well after awhile it all started making sense and I could comprehend what the fine folks on this forum were saying ( Info overload). Now I'm getting wonderful DFS' on a consistent basis and I now understand what an enjoyable shave is. Hang in there, give it a chance, it's worth it.

well said! to be honest im only 3 shaves in to straight shaving and today achieved a near perfect shave.... it was actually using cold water! i plan to stick with it and have ditched every other option of shaving. ALL OR NOTHING is the way to go with straights i think.