NOS? Slightly argumentative question.

[Slivovitz]

I have a pretty large number of vintage razors, but they are all theoretically for use. I've used all of them at least once, or plan to. This question is directed more at the sort of collector who keeps some razors for display only.

How lenient are you in using the term "NOS"? To me, one implication of the term is that one can be certain that the item has never been used before. That would mean some sort of tamper evident packaging, such as an unbroken cellophane wrap, paper seal, or blister pack.

The problem with that is that older items may not ever have had such packaging. For you collectors, if you find a razor that shows no obvious signs of use, that has all the original packaging, and everything that came with it (such as instructions, blank warranty card, etc.) do you consider it NOS? Or would you classify it as something like "mint, apparently unused"?

I ask because I've been seeing items classed as NOS when the package obviously has been opened, and the razor could have been used and put back without anyone knowing.

 

[life2short1971]

There is no leniency. NOS= New Old Stock. as In New but OLd unused Stock. Anything else is Like New and down from there.

 

[pauls51]

There is no leniency. NOS= New Old Stock. as In New but OLd unused Stock. Anything else is Like New and down from there.

+1


NOS is unused old stock! There is no fine line...

 

[amishmotorboat]

I just got a schick injector in it's case, AND the razor is held in place with cardboard that I assume would be damaged if the razor were removed from it, AND the razor has the blade blank still in it, BUT the pack of blades that came with it is empty. I do NOT consider it NOS.

 

[Slivovitz]

+1


NOS is unused old stock! There is no fine line...

Right. My point is, can something be considered unused without absolute proof, such as an unbroken seal?

I've seen claims that something is unused, even though the package has clearly been opened.

 

[DracZ]

Right. My point is, can something be considered unused without absolute proof, such as an unbroken seal?

I've seen claims that something is unused, even though the package has clearly been opened.

In this case probably not, as others have mentioned some of these items never came with such a seal to begin with. The term that would accurately describe what you are after is probably "Brand New In Box".

On another note, is one to expect that the condition of an item described as "NOS" be in absolutely mint/pristine condition?

 

[Copierguy]

Rightly said about the older sets that did not come from the plant, sealed in plastic. I recently picked up one with a spotless shipper, the registration card, instructions, sealed blade pack and a case that looked like it has maybe only seen day light a hand full of times. The granddaughter of the buyer says the family lore has it that her grandfather thought it was special and would be a collectible some day, so he bought it and put it away. After his passing her father, the son, did the same and did not use this razor. When she became the owner she did not feel the same as her father or grandfather and only thought of selling it to clean up affairs. She told a credible story backed up by the physical evidence, so that was good enough for me. I call it a NOS set.

 

[Mako72]

I think we need to be careful of the term NOS. Unless you bought it from X pharmacy from the bottom of a shelf its not New Old Stock. It could be New In Box if sealed. It could be As New In Box if not sealed. It can be Like New In Box. While this may seem like splitting hairs its only because razors haven't gotten a true blue book type collectibility. As to packaging and sealing that is part of what would make it as new in box. I can't really prove it but lets take the Gillette Old Type for example. The boxes people have them in are the display boxes, not how they shipped. Most likely they would have had a paper & twine wrapper around the outside box so that the display box(the box we see them in ) didn't get damaged. If you found an Old Type in its box wrapped in tissue paper and tied of with twine that would be NOS, anythng else would be As or Like New In Box.

Lots of other collectibles have gone through this teething problem and when razors get real scarce someone will write a Blue Book of values, just watch.

Jay

 

[jansob]

I agree...NOS means just as it would have been displayed or sent out from the original retailer...blister pack and all.

 

[DE Shaver]

There is no leniency. NOS= New Old Stock. as In New but OLd unused Stock. Anything else is Like New and down from there.

+1
NOS is unused old stock! There is no fine line...

I agree with this definition. According to NOS Orthodoxy, this is the accepted standard. However, to those that subscribe to Reformed NOS teachings, there would be allowance for some wear on the packaging, provided it was still had the original seal from the manufacturer that prevents tampering.

 

[Copierguy]

I think we need to be careful of the term NOS. Unless you bought it from X pharmacy from the bottom of a shelf its not New Old Stock. It could be New In Box if sealed. It could be As New In Box if not sealed. It can be Like New In Box. .........Jay

What you are saying is that as soon as the original buyer dies it's not NOS anymore....? I don't think so....

 

[michiganlover]

On another note, is one to expect that the condition of an item described as "NOS" be in absolutely mint/pristine condition?

Not necessarily, it depends upon the item.

For example, a Gillette Ball End handle Old Type could be NOS, and still have all of the cracks typically seen in those types of handles.

The cracks are the result of a manufacturing defect, and a unused razor still in it's original box would still suffer from those cracks.

 

[DavyRay]

For me, the item should look as if it was still on the store shelf. If blister pack sealed, that should be intact. For older era items which could be inspected in the store (the box is easily opened) could have been opened for inspection, and that is okay for those items. NOS implies that the item entered the collector world from distribution (warehouse or retail store).

The razor which was put away by Grandpa in expectation that it would be valuable some day is perhaps mint or like new. It is not NOS. It was sold to an end user. That means it was bought out of stock. Stock no longer applies.

I have an Indian motorcycle connecting rod in original box. I bought it from an old shop which had some repair stock left on the shelf. The box was dusty. I consider that to be a NOS item. It is still NOS, partly because I can witness it's provenance.

 

[Mako72]

Actually yes that exactally what it mean. As the OP said this is argumentative. In most collectibles there are defined guidelines, here there are not. As much as I hate Wikipedia here goes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_old_stock

Depending on the collectible and who is collecting it, grading guides and terminology is harsh. I don't collect razors other than to use, but look at toys, comics, or guns. Thats why there are guides, the difference between 98% and 99& can be thousands of dollars. Razors just aren't there yet.

Jay

Edit-As DavyRay above me said, establishing provenance is key. Once he sells it it will NOT be NOS, It will be NIB.

 

[Copierguy]

I believe I will defer to the B&B Razor Rating-Grading Guideline:

New Old Stock (NOS): Razor in original new condition and includes the outer cardboard shipper (if applicable to the model), metal/plastic/Bakelite case, blade pack and instruction sheet. New Old Stock (NOS) status does not necessarily coincide with any specific category.

http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php?t=66914

 

[luvmysuper]

I believe I will defer to the B&B Razor Rating-Grading Guideline:

New Old Stock (NOS): Razor in original new condition and includes the outer cardboard shipper (if applicable to the model), metal/plastic/Bakelite case, blade pack and instruction sheet. New Old Stock (NOS) status does not necessarily coincide with any specific category.

http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php?t=66914

Thanks

 

[MichaelG]

I never really understood that definition of NOS - it seems that B&B defines "NOS" as having complete packaging but doesn't really define NOS to mean unused, pristine condition - i.e. the same as what was on a retailer's shelf.

In the wrist watch collecting world, NOS means that a watch has never been worn, or the bracelet sized. Basically a watch that's been in it's original box with its papers in a drawer since it was bought or offered for sale originally.

I think NOS in the razor world should be the same.

I believe I will defer to the B&B Razor Rating-Grading Guideline:

New Old Stock (NOS): Razor in original new condition and includes the outer cardboard shipper (if applicable to the model), metal/plastic/Bakelite case, blade pack and instruction sheet. New Old Stock (NOS) status does not necessarily coincide with any specific category.

http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php?t=66914

 

[Copierguy]

My guess would be that you could have a 100 year old brass razor that lived a life in the case unused, but may have lost the retail shelf twinkle.

Or something along those lines.

 

[Mako72]

I believe I will defer to the B&B Razor Rating-Grading Guideline:

New Old Stock (NOS): Razor in original new condition and includes the outer cardboard shipper (if applicable to the model), metal/plastic/Bakelite case, blade pack and instruction sheet. New Old Stock (NOS) status does not necessarily coincide with any specific category.

http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php?t=66914

And I agree, and think we all do. I was only trying to point to other areas where it is more defined.

Hypothetically using the B&B guidelines someone could find a New Fatboy in a broken case, transfer to a new case, add correct dated blades and instructions and sell as NOS. Not ethical and I don't think anyone would. I was only pointing out that in truely established collecting circles there are very specific criteria. And that as razors become rarer the defintions will change.

But yes you are correct we should and I think do all use the B&B guidelines!!

Jay

 

[luvmysuper]

And I agree, and think we all do. I was only trying to point to other areas where it is more defined.

Hypothetically using the B&B guidelines someone could find a New Fatboy in a broken case, transfer to a new case, add correct dated blades and instructions and sell as NOS. Not ethical and I don't think anyone would. I was only pointing out that in truely established collecting circles there are very specific criteria. And that as razors become rarer the defintions will change.

But yes you are correct we should and I think do all use the B&B guidelines!!

Jay

Under the heading NOS, the guidelines referenced says;

"Razor in original new condition"

If it originally came shrink wrapped, then it would still need to be shrink wrapped to be NOS. If it originally came attached to a cardboard backer, then it would have to be attached to the cardboard backer to be NOS.
A reasonable man could understand that dust and time are not kind to any product, so natural aging of celophane or plastic bubble packaging etc would be expected on an older item.
Seems pretty straight forward to me.
To be NOS, it must be in original new condition