I've always "liked and/or tolerated" the smell of cigar smoke. But pipe smoke? That stuff is great! Why the difference? (I can only imagine the reasons for why both smell much better than cigarettes!!!)
thanks ...
thanks ...
Nonsmoker asks: why do cigar and pipe smoke smell different?
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The toppings or casings to the pipe tobacco probably play a major role?
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Ammonia. Much lower in many pipe blends.
I think pipe tobacco is usually flavored and sweetened more than cigar tobacco.
The curing and casing of pipe tobaccos are a little different, and may involve some mild sugars in various forms for the latter steps. But the big difference for the profound room note differences among tobacco genres are due to the curing times. Many raw tobacco varieties are full of ammonia, which accumulates during the death of the leaf. This is why attempting to smoke raw tobacco is an unpleasant and unrecommended practice.
One of the principal reasons for curing all tobaccos is to reduce that ammonia content.
But even the very best cigar tobaccos are only cured for two years at most. Most considerably less time. And cigarette base leaf is cured even less so. Conversely, two years is around the absolute minimum for even an inexpensive mass-produced pipe tobacco. The best pipe tobaccos may be cured for 4 or 5, or even more, years.
There is also a correlation between ammonia content and nicotine in many tobaccos. That is why some cigarette manufacturers even prefer higher ammonia levels; it increases the working nicotine content in the product. And it is why a good cigar often has a nice nicotine kick.
What most bystanders enjoy in the room note of a pipe tobacco is often the toppings found in aromatics. Toppings are exactly that: something applied to the already cured and/or cased base leaf. The sweet bakery and other aromas are usually the smoldering toppings, which are rarely, if ever, found in cigars and cigarettes.
But even a plain pipe blend that smells pleasantly homey like ‘grandpa’ is due to the above curing and casing efforts and times they enjoy.
Probably the best explanation I’ve ever heard. Thanks, I learned something new today.
Part of it, too, may be different varieties of leaf used. I can't recall too many pipe blends using Connecticut shade or Maduro leaf. Not many cigars touting Latakia or other Orientals.
I think cigar tobacco is fermented within an inch of its life as well.
Twice I tried cigars. The first was one of those Black & Mild "pipe tobacco" cigars from the drugstore (you can still buy 'em at Walmart, oddly enough), which did nothing for me. The second and last was one of the thin thin ones that Tinder Box used to sell. With the latter, I smoked it, went out to check the mail, and when I came back I thought something had died in the apartment. My cat at the time always sat with me when I smoked a pipe, but he repaired to the bedroom during the cigar experiments and didn't reappear for half an hour afterward.
I took the hints and stuck with the pipe.
I took the hints and stuck with the pipe.
You're right, and Kentos is right, too. And I was a little sloppy in commingling terms in an effort to describe with simplicity. Tobacco processing is still part science, and still part art.
The reason for ammonia in all tobacco is from the enzyme breakdown (oxidation) of the proteins contained in the leaf's chlorophyll. Facilitating and accelerating that natural breakdown is one of the objectives of the initial curing phase of processing. All tobacco has these proteins, and all will accumulate ammonia during curing as the proteins break down. But it does vary.
Cigar tobacco varieties typically possess a higher protein content than the usual pipe tobacco base leafs, and consequently accumulate higher ammonia levels in those initial curing stages. That is why most cigar tobacco is usually air-cured on pallets; flue or other more active curing methods would likely overheat the enzymes that are already generating plenty of heat ... and ammonia. Part of the curing process is also to get that accumulated ammonia out of the leaf. Which is why if you ever walked into a curing shed, the ammonia fumes might overwhelm you. Once the curing is done, it is done, and the enzyme breakdown of the proteins, and the accumulation of the resulting ammonia, is primarily completed. So even with ample airing, cigar tobaccos usually leave the curing sheds with higher residual ammonia levels than the pipe tobaccos do for this reason.
The subsequent processing steps are much slower, and do not cause further rapid accumulation of ammonia as curing does, although they can allow the further out-gassing and extraction of residual ammonia from the curing phase.
The aging stage is also sometimes called "fermenting", and is different from the earlier curing phase. Aging more involves the remaining sugars and other carbohydrates in the leaf, as opposed to the chlorophyll proteins above. Aging in wood may sometimes be used with cigar varieties, and it is almost always used with pipe varieties (that is why I typically refer to "casing" with pipe blends). I have seen Internet claims that cigar tobaccos may be aged after curing for up to 5 years, although in most real-world instances, it is usually only 2 years (and some cheaper machine brands are considerably less). Decent pipe tobaccos are typically aged in cases (or "cased") for a minimum of 4 years. Some pro-cigar Internet sources seem to imply the opposite, and that cigar leaf sits around aging for decades. Not true (perhaps later in their humidors). And additional ingredients are often added to pipe varieties during casing, which is not usually the case with cigar tobaccos.
So most pipe tobaccos tend to leave the curing sheds with less ammonia than cigar varieties do, and then tend to be more extravagantly aged and cased than cigar (and cigarette) varieties are. This is not to imply that good cigar tobacco is not well-aged before rolling. It is. Just differently. Some Cubans may also be subjected to an additional curing or aging step compared to others, but I'll leave for others to argue the effects of that.
But it's all about the ammonia as far as room note acridity is concerned. Cigar tobacco just typically has more of it after processing, and can leave a more offensive 'stench' to some bystanders as a result. Most pipe tobacco has less, and once you start adding toppings during the final blending, all sorts of pleasant room note consequences might follow. There are of course some exceptions and variations, as anyone with an offended bystander to some more potent English blends can attest.
As I hinted above, some cigarette manufacturers even ADD ammonia to their blends to enhance the nicotine performance, ironically to a relatively mild-mannered white Burley base as far as native ammonia content is concerned.
I only know these vague obscurities because I was interested in what I put in my mouth.
I’m just going to add this statement, made by another gentleman (Bob), on another forum (fairtradetobacco), that more thoroughly discusses some of the various tobacco variety and processing considerations. I disagree on a couple smaller points on the later processing phases he discusses as it relates to affected proteins and carbohydrates, and he does not drill down on the room note consequences of residual ammonias. But he pretty much nails the process generally.
Bob does a good job, and it helps explain these processing nuances more in depth than I care to:
___________
Ammonia is created within the leaf during oxidation of the leaf's proteins. If there is no oxidation, then there is no ammonia produced. The oxidation is not caused by microbes or air, but by two oxidase enzymes still present within the leaf after the lamina have died. Both require moisture to function in breaking down albuminous proteins and carbohydrates. One of the enzymes is destroyed if the leaf reaches 141°F, so is lacking in flue-cured leaf afterit has been flue-cured. The more heat-stable enzyme survives and functions up to about 191°F. This second oxidase enzyme operates much more slowly than the first, but it is what permits flue-cured leaf to very slowly age. Once leaf has been heated above 191°F, it can no longer age. So toasted leaf and Cavendish or otherwise boiled or steamed leaf no longer has the ability to age in the sense that we understand tobacco aging.
"Sweating" is an imprecise term with many meanings. "Fermentation", likewise offers its own confusions. Both of them refer to conditions that allow the process of oxidation discussed in the previous paragraph. The leaf must have some moisture (is not completely dry), and must be at a temperature of about 60°F or higher. Since the oxidation reaction is temperature dependent, the higher the temp, the more rapidly the reaction runs (up to the point that the enzyme itself is cooked or denatured).
Cured leaf that is hanging in a humid shed or tobacco barn while temperatures rise (as in the springtime) will resume enzymatic oxidation. The rate of that oxidation tends to cycle with the ambient temperature. Once most of the proteins and carbs have been oxidized (incidentally releasing ammonia radicals from certain proteins), the rate slows dramatically, though it can continue for years at a snail's pace.
Cured leaf that is closely packed within bales or into piles (pilones) acts as its own insulation, so that the slight, chemical heat generated by the oxidation is trapped, increasing the oxidation rate and thereby generating even more heat. So baled or piled tobacco can warm itself (even to the point of starting a smoldering fire, if the conditions are just right). When this happens in bales, simply separating the individual bales with a slight air space will often be enough to slow or halt the process. When this occurs during intentional "fermentation" piles, the temperature is allowed to reach a previously decided max temp, at which the pile is broken down and reassembled, and the process started over again.
"Aging" of tobacco refers to exactly the same chemical process of oxidation. Once most of the work of oxidation has been completed, "aging" appears as a subtle, gradual process. But it's the very same thing happening (at a slower rate) as happens with "sweating" and "fermentation".
We often say things like "burley is not fermented," and "cigar leaf is always fermented." The only real difference is that most cigar varieties require a lot more oxidation to tame the proteins and carbohydrates, when compared to burley or other non-cigar varieties. "Fermenting" non-cigar varieties does not cause them to smell or taste like cigar varieties. Those distinct characteristics are inherent within the specific tobacco varieties.
Kilning
A kiln allows you to achieve the moisture and temperature conditions required for optimal oxidation rates. It's not dependent on bailing or creating 5000 pound piles, or waiting for the weather to be just right. The kiln enforces the humidity, and enforces the desired temperature. It's the same as "sweating" or "fermentation" or "aging". Once the leaf has mostly oxidized its proteins and carbohydrates, all that remains to be accomplished is a "resting" and "airing" period (days to weeks) in order to allow the newly created ammonia that is still dissolved within the moisture of the leaf lamina to dissipate into the air. Allowing the leaf to completely dry (go out of case) can speed this process of ammonia evaporation. The leaf, of course, needs to be brought back into low case prior to handling.
If kilned or "sweated" or "fermented" or "aged" tobacco has an ammonia smell, it means that additional oxidation has taken place.
Bob
fairtradetobacco.com
Bob does a good job, and it helps explain these processing nuances more in depth than I care to:
___________
Ammonia is created within the leaf during oxidation of the leaf's proteins. If there is no oxidation, then there is no ammonia produced. The oxidation is not caused by microbes or air, but by two oxidase enzymes still present within the leaf after the lamina have died. Both require moisture to function in breaking down albuminous proteins and carbohydrates. One of the enzymes is destroyed if the leaf reaches 141°F, so is lacking in flue-cured leaf afterit has been flue-cured. The more heat-stable enzyme survives and functions up to about 191°F. This second oxidase enzyme operates much more slowly than the first, but it is what permits flue-cured leaf to very slowly age. Once leaf has been heated above 191°F, it can no longer age. So toasted leaf and Cavendish or otherwise boiled or steamed leaf no longer has the ability to age in the sense that we understand tobacco aging.
"Sweating" is an imprecise term with many meanings. "Fermentation", likewise offers its own confusions. Both of them refer to conditions that allow the process of oxidation discussed in the previous paragraph. The leaf must have some moisture (is not completely dry), and must be at a temperature of about 60°F or higher. Since the oxidation reaction is temperature dependent, the higher the temp, the more rapidly the reaction runs (up to the point that the enzyme itself is cooked or denatured).
Cured leaf that is hanging in a humid shed or tobacco barn while temperatures rise (as in the springtime) will resume enzymatic oxidation. The rate of that oxidation tends to cycle with the ambient temperature. Once most of the proteins and carbs have been oxidized (incidentally releasing ammonia radicals from certain proteins), the rate slows dramatically, though it can continue for years at a snail's pace.
Cured leaf that is closely packed within bales or into piles (pilones) acts as its own insulation, so that the slight, chemical heat generated by the oxidation is trapped, increasing the oxidation rate and thereby generating even more heat. So baled or piled tobacco can warm itself (even to the point of starting a smoldering fire, if the conditions are just right). When this happens in bales, simply separating the individual bales with a slight air space will often be enough to slow or halt the process. When this occurs during intentional "fermentation" piles, the temperature is allowed to reach a previously decided max temp, at which the pile is broken down and reassembled, and the process started over again.
"Aging" of tobacco refers to exactly the same chemical process of oxidation. Once most of the work of oxidation has been completed, "aging" appears as a subtle, gradual process. But it's the very same thing happening (at a slower rate) as happens with "sweating" and "fermentation".
We often say things like "burley is not fermented," and "cigar leaf is always fermented." The only real difference is that most cigar varieties require a lot more oxidation to tame the proteins and carbohydrates, when compared to burley or other non-cigar varieties. "Fermenting" non-cigar varieties does not cause them to smell or taste like cigar varieties. Those distinct characteristics are inherent within the specific tobacco varieties.
Kilning
A kiln allows you to achieve the moisture and temperature conditions required for optimal oxidation rates. It's not dependent on bailing or creating 5000 pound piles, or waiting for the weather to be just right. The kiln enforces the humidity, and enforces the desired temperature. It's the same as "sweating" or "fermentation" or "aging". Once the leaf has mostly oxidized its proteins and carbohydrates, all that remains to be accomplished is a "resting" and "airing" period (days to weeks) in order to allow the newly created ammonia that is still dissolved within the moisture of the leaf lamina to dissipate into the air. Allowing the leaf to completely dry (go out of case) can speed this process of ammonia evaporation. The leaf, of course, needs to be brought back into low case prior to handling.
If kilned or "sweated" or "fermented" or "aged" tobacco has an ammonia smell, it means that additional oxidation has taken place.
Bob
Is there any way to mellow out shredded tobacco ?
Muggs, Is you burley from the 2018 season? Has it been kilned? If the answers are yes and no, respectively, then you're just smoking the stuff way too soon. Bob Yes,the burley turn dark drown.smells wonderful.im smoking this straight, An it make me cough, an has an bitter after taste. I...
MR. COLOMBO: This is an excellent response and analysis of the fundamentals of the tobacco curing arts; Fascinating; A STUDIED READING of this post might even be enough to re-juvenate the waning fortunes of the once vibrant Tobacco growing culture of Leamington county in south-western Ontario! Well written!
You're too kind. Thank you.
