No love for synthetic stones?

[Alum of Potash]

Sigma: "Sintered under heat and pressure, the resulting stone readily releases new, aggressive particles during use."

The only Sigma I've tried is the 1K, which is great for making rough, toothy edges on knives, but I'd never put a razor on it.

Your quoted text may explain why I found it better to use it dampened, as a flooded surface tended to cause micro-chipping due to particles being released. At the time, I used it after a 1.2k Sigma and 6k Sigma progression. Only the 13k introduced micro-chipping, but once I used it dampened, it worked very well. The 1.2k Sigma worked well as a bevel-setter. Very quick.

 

[JPO]

Your quoted text may explain why I found it better to use it dampened, as a flooded surface tended to cause micro-chipping due to particles being released. At the time, I used it after a 1.2k Sigma and 6k Sigma progression. Only the 13k introduced micro-chipping, but once I used it dampened, it worked very well. The 1.2k Sigma worked well as a bevel-setter. Very quick.

I also used mine wet and I had problems with microchipping. I will try to use it damp.

 

[SilverSteel]

The Gokymyo 20K is probably a better stone for razors then the 0.44 or the 30k gs/gs seven. I would like to try it some day. I think the 0.85 gs seven should not be compared to the 16k gs. I think the particle distribution is tighter in the 0.85. Under magnification there is some rougue scratches after the 0.44 which i do not get with the 0.85.
Is there any budget friendly smaller versions of the Gokymyo 20K?
Happy honing

The Gokymyo 20K is probably a better stone for razors then the 0.44 or the 30k gs/gs seven. I would like to try it some day. I think the 0.85 gs seven should not be compared to the 16k gs. I think the particle distribution is tighter in the 0.85. Under magnification there is some rougue scratches after the 0.44 which i do not get with the 0.85.
Is there any budget friendly smaller versions of the Gokymyo 20K?
Happy honing

Jendeindustries sells smaller versions of the Gokumyo 20k (currently out of stock)

 

[SilverSteel]

Thanks for all those wonderful and very inspiring posts. I probably never would have thought about using a nagura in a synthetic Stone.
My SG20k arrived. After lapping it flat I tested it on my Böker classic that was previously finished on a diamond balsa strop, but never was really a very comfortable shaver. With the SG20K finish however it provided a wonderful first shave.
Now all the pieces are slowly starting to come together for me. I developed a fairly fine touch shaving, honing and stropping resulting in shaves, that finally are on par or even better than my what I got out of my DE razors.

Looking forward to compare the results from SG20K against the hard black Arkansas from Dan's that is currently also heading in my direction.

 

[RayClem]

Looking forward to compare the results from SG20K against the hard black Arkansas from Dan's that is currently also heading in my direction.

Dan sells some very nice stones. With patience, the denser ones like the hard black and translucent can produce a fine edge on a razor. However, the technique used to produce such an edge is likely to differ significantly from the other stones you have tried. Some people love honing on an Arkansas stone; I just do not have the patience to do so.

 

[SilverSteel]

However, the technique used to produce such an edge is likely to differ significantly from the other stones you have tried.

So, how does he technique for honing on Arks differ? The SG 20K cuts really fast. Much faster than I would expect from such a hard stone. A few strokes was all it took to refine the edge of the Böker. I would assume that a slow cutting stone should be able to produce a keener edge.

 

[JPO]

Dan sells some very nice stones. With patience, the denser ones like the hard black and translucent can produce a fine edge on a razor. However, the technique used to produce such an edge is likely to differ significantly from the other stones you have tried. Some people love honing on an Arkansas stone; I just do not have the patience to do so.

I am no Arkensas stone expert. The only way i was able to get good results with mine was to have a good shave ready edge when i moved to the ark. I need more practice, but i got the best results if i jumped from a higher grit finishing stone, like the shapton gs 0.85 or a coticule. The razor seems to be able to cut hair better then skin. Someone have called it an smart edge
I have been looking for a stone to keep in the bathroom reserved for some razors just for more frequent touch ups.
My shapton stones cut way to fast for that type of work.

 

[SammieM]

I have a collection of both synthetic and natural hones. I started with Naniwa Superstones. I have a full set from 600 grit up to 12K. I use them for bevel setting and intermediate stones. I was hoping the 12K would be a good finishing hone for me; it was not. Although the Naniwa 12K was able to produce an edge sharp enough for my beard, the resulting edge was not smooth enough for my sensitive skin. I now stop at the 10K and then move on to other finishing stones.

I also have a Shapton Glass 16K, which appears to be similar in grit size to the Naniwa 12K.

I have a Belgian Coticule that produces an edge similar in sharpness to a Naniwa 8K. Although Colicule edges are smooth, they are not sharp enough for my coarse beard.

I have a couple of hones that produce an edge similar to a Naniwa 10K. They include a Vermont green slate and a modern Thuringian hone (not an Escher). The produce a smooth edge, but not one that is sharp enough for my beard.

I have a couple of natural stones that produce an edge similar in sharpness to the Naniwa 12K. They include a Chinese Guangxi stone and a Tsushima Ocean Blue stone. They produce an edge sharp enough and smooth enough, but I prefer an even finer finish.

My favorite natural stones are the Greek Vermio, the Zulu Grey, Llyn Mellyn (Yellow Lake) Welsh slate, and the Imperia La Roccia. Either will produce a superior edge, both sharp and smooth. However, as natural stones, I cannot guarantee that any specimen you might obtain will perform like mine.

My best finisher is a synthetic, the Suehiro Gokumyo 20K. With a grit size of 0.5 micron, it produces a superb edge.

I do have a Hard Black Arkansas. Given enough patience, it will produce a nice edge. However, I lack the patience to do so.

Even if I finish on the Suehiro, I like to give my edges a final polishing with pasted strops. While many people use balsa strops pasted with diamond abrasives, I prefer using microfiber strops pasted with cubic boron nitride abrasives: 0.5 micron, 0.25 micron, and 0.1 micron. When I first add the 0.1 micron to my progression, I doubted that my face would be able to feel the difference between 0.25 micron and 0.1 micron. However, it did make an improvement in the shave.

Thus, I find that using a combination of synthetic hones, natural stones, and pasted strops will produce the very best edges I have been able to achieve. Could I produce a sharp, smooth edge with only synthetic hones? Sure I could. Could I produce a sharp, smooth edge with only natural hones? Sure I could. However, I like having both in my arsenal. Sometimes different razors respond best to different hones and honing methods.

Have you tried glycerine/water on your coticule? Give it a try and let me know how you get on.

 

[RayClem]

Have you tried glycerine/water on your coticule? Give it a try and let me know how you get on.

I have tried a variety of lubricants on the Coticule. It is a great intermediate stone, but it is not capable of finishing an edge for me. I figure mine is somewhere around 8K. Some people are fine with an 8K edge, but even as 12K edge is not sharp enough and smooth enough for me.

So, how does he technique for honing on Arks differ? The SG 20K cuts really fast. Much faster than I would expect from such a hard stone. A few strokes was all it took to refine the edge of the Böker. I would assume that a slow cutting stone should be able to produce a keener edge.

Arkansas stones, (Novaculite) are "different". They are not graded by grit level like most stones, but by density. The surface of the stone needs to be burnished to make it suitable for razors. A well prepared dense stone is great for polishing the edge of the razor, but do not expect it to cut fast.

I guess you could use Nagura stones like folks do with Japanese naturals. The Japanese stones, like Novaculite, are a type of chert. I have not used JNats, so I cannot claim any expertise in using them. With a Nagura slurry, the cutting action would be faster.

 

[SammieM]

I have tried a variety of lubricants on the Coticule. It is a great intermediate stone, but it is not capable of finishing an edge for me. I figure mine is somewhere around 8K. Some people are fine with an 8K edge, but even as 12K edge is not sharp enough and smooth enough for me.



Arkansas stones, (Novaculite) are "different". They are not graded by grit level like most stones, but by density. The surface of the stone needs to be burnished to make it suitable for razors. A well prepared dense stone is great for polishing the edge of the razor, but do not expect it to cut fast.

I guess you could use Nagura stones like folks do with Japanese naturals. The Japanese stones, like Novaculite, are a type of chert. I have not used JNats, so I cannot claim any expertise in using them. With a Nagura slurry, the cutting action would be faster.

Mine must be a different vein. It rivals the new La Lune and my finest JNATs in terms of keenness and comfort.