(Newbie alert) This might be a basic soapmaking chemistry question but being a cream guy that I am - why are there so few artisan shave creams? I am not referring to "croaps" but ones with the consistency of a proper cream. There are a few good ones out there but not as many as there the number of options with croaps. Has it to do with the soap/cream-making process where is it much easier and cheaper to make a croap or a soap than a cream? I had a another question along these lines of why there are fewer options for triple-milled artisan soaps.
No artisan shave creams?
- Thread starter namya
- Start date
Hello, sir! I suspect it has to do both with the fact that it is easier to make soap than cream without serious preservatives, which many artisans pride themselves for, as well as with the fact that someone who has a small business wants his product to have a big shelf life.
I will explain myself better:
- The cream, has by its nature, more water inside. This accelerates microbial growth and the air in the tub starts oxidation. So you need to put inside more artificial ingredients to prevent this. This goes against the marketing slogan of many artisans of selling "soap with natural ingredients". For instance, my last tub of Truefitt, had not one, but several parabens. But artisans don't use such vile ingredients! An alternative is to sell in sealed tubes. At least this eliminates the air infiltration that exists in the tub. But this requires more specialized equipment. You can't just fill tubes with cream in your basement and apply aluminum seal on the end of them.
- A family or small operation, which is usually what artisans are, especially if exporting too, produces in relatively small quantities and wants their product to have as long shelf life as possible. Otherwise whatever remains unsold and expires, is a net loss. Soaps are easier to produce, they are preserved as intended (they have less water) and easier to package them by yourself, even in your basement, as long as you have containers.
- I suspect that soap recipies are also easier to experiment on than creams, exactly because one variable, the semi-solid nature, is missing. In a cream, the ingredients are in a sort of suspension in water. To enhance your formula is more complicated than try new soap formula, because you have to think not just of the different proportion of ingredients, but also of different proportion of water and how this will affect the rest of the formula.
This is all just conjecture on my part though. I am hardly a soap expert!
I will explain myself better:
- The cream, has by its nature, more water inside. This accelerates microbial growth and the air in the tub starts oxidation. So you need to put inside more artificial ingredients to prevent this. This goes against the marketing slogan of many artisans of selling "soap with natural ingredients". For instance, my last tub of Truefitt, had not one, but several parabens. But artisans don't use such vile ingredients! An alternative is to sell in sealed tubes. At least this eliminates the air infiltration that exists in the tub. But this requires more specialized equipment. You can't just fill tubes with cream in your basement and apply aluminum seal on the end of them.
- A family or small operation, which is usually what artisans are, especially if exporting too, produces in relatively small quantities and wants their product to have as long shelf life as possible. Otherwise whatever remains unsold and expires, is a net loss. Soaps are easier to produce, they are preserved as intended (they have less water) and easier to package them by yourself, even in your basement, as long as you have containers.
- I suspect that soap recipies are also easier to experiment on than creams, exactly because one variable, the semi-solid nature, is missing. In a cream, the ingredients are in a sort of suspension in water. To enhance your formula is more complicated than try new soap formula, because you have to think not just of the different proportion of ingredients, but also of different proportion of water and how this will affect the rest of the formula.
This is all just conjecture on my part though. I am hardly a soap expert!
Here’s a good thread from a couple of months ago...
www.badgerandblade.com
Why Artisans don't make shaving creams?
It somehow struck me the other day... artisan makers for the most part produce shaving soap of various hardness, usually some variety of "croap". Some, not many (like SV) make hard triple milled soaps. Still, I couldn't think of one artisan that makes a truly soft cream in a tube, like the...
www.badgerandblade.com
My guess would be that most folks are looking for a soap or a croap and not a cream. Follows the money. But there are some artisans that make some good creams with great scents.
Captain's Choice
WSP
Taylor of Old Bond Street
Art of Shaving
Geo F. Trumper
Barberry Coast
Jack Black
Viking Revolution
Rocky Mountain
The Body Shop
Just a few.
Captain's Choice
WSP
Taylor of Old Bond Street
Art of Shaving
Geo F. Trumper
Barberry Coast
Jack Black
Viking Revolution
Rocky Mountain
The Body Shop
Just a few.
Nancy Boy is great! Several scents these days. Not a big fan of their splash but the balm is nice. Sign up for newsletters, which are generally hilarious, and get an extra discount as well.
Nancy Boy is great! Several scents these days. Not a big fan of their splash but the balm is nice. Sign up for newsletters, which are generally hilarious, and get an extra discount as well.
Rhody
I'm a Lumberjack.
Excellent question op. That never dawned on me.
however upon further reflection I consider Proraso to be artisan
however upon further reflection I consider Proraso to be artisan
- Thread starter
- #8
I can only dream... maybe some day..an artisan cream in a tube! 
- Thread starter
- #9
That was very clear - makes sense now!
I'm not familiar with all of those brands, but I wouldn't class TOBS, Geo F Trumper, Jack Black (owned by Edgewell), Art of Shaving (owned by Procter & Gamble) or the Body Shop (previously owned by L’Oréal then sold to Natura for €1 billion) as artisans. They are all good creams, but mass produced.
I'm not sure if Arran Sense of Scotland (previously Arran Arromatics) would count as being an artisan anymore (they are now private equity owned but still produce everything at their own facility on the Isle of Arran) but they make two creams in tubes. Castle Forbes is another one that springs to mind but they come in tubs.
Good catch. My apologies.
It can be hard to tell at times, it seems that trying to "look" like an artisan seems to be one of the latest trends for big companies!
- Thread starter
- #14
Yep! some of the artisans are (or have become) "big" and some of the bigs are trying to be perceived as artisans. The lines are certainly bluring.
I'll add my 2 cents! I've found an amazing artisan creme by Taconic, awesome quality I can recommend it wholeheartedly!! And you get awesome customer service from them!!! ^_^
Excellent question op. That never dawned on me.
however upon further reflection I consider Proraso to be artisan
According to the Proraso web site, the company was founded in 1908 by a master barber in Italy. Of course, World War I and World War II kind of messed with things. Proraso as we now think of it has been produced since 1948. Thus, in my mind at least, it qualifies as a traditional soap, although they do come out with new varieties and formulas from time to time. According to Wikipedia,it seems Proraso is owned by Ludovico Martelli srl which is now partly owned by a Chinese company. This hardly sounds like an artisan.
Gillette has been around since 1900. They come out with new versions of their canned foams and gels every few years. I doubt anyone would consider them to be an artisan soapmaker.
Typically, I think of an artisan as being primarily under the control of one individual who is largely responsible for the development, production, marketing and sale of the product. There may be those who assist that individual in accomplishing those tasks. Som some are truly the work of a single person, whether male or female. Others may be a family operation or a small business.
Rhody
I'm a Lumberjack.
I suppose it’s how you interpret the definition. A solo worker or one of many.
True. How do you interpret the term "artisan"?
I find it difficult to call a company like Proraso as artisan is partly owned by a Chinese conglomerate.
Art of Shaving makes some products that might be called "artisan like" soaps. However, being owned by Gillette and previously having multiple physical outlets. Art of Shaving is a subsiderary of an International corporation, not an artisan.
An example of a muilti-person operation that I do consider to be an artisan is Wet Shaving Products. The company sells a variety of shaving products, but is run by Leyton Lee. WSP makes and sells a variety of soaps as well. There is an individual that is hired by Mr. Lee to do the production of those products and there may be others working in the shop who package the products for shipment. However, I would call those artisan products because Mr. Lee controls the entire operation.
Rhody
I'm a Lumberjack.
Understand your point. I think that term is overused these days however as some sort of Imprimatur on the product usually associated with a higher price.
I certainly agree with your last point.
I have tried some artisan shave soaps that I find to be absolutely wonderful; but I have also tried some that are terrible. Some artisans are highly skilled at their craft; I am not sure some of them have a clue.
I rate my soaps on a 60 point performance scale. My lowest ranked artisan soap only scored 32 points. Eight of those points were awarded because it was reasonably easy to load. It scored somewhere between 4 and 6 out of ten on the other metrics I consider important. Furthermore, the scent was so bad I could not stand to use it. Needless to say, it did not remain long in my den. I did not even consider it worthy of using it as a shower or hand soap.
A number of my artisan soaps, however, are so good that they score 10/10 on each of my metrics for an overall score of 60. For my sensitive skin, post shave feel is so important that I even award a bonus point to several soaps with a great post shave feel that lingers beyond 16 hours. Those are my top soaps, those that rate 60 points and higher.
All of my top soaps are artisan soaps costing $20 and higher for a 4 ounce tub. The best traditional soap in my den is Tabac. It scores 57/60 on my performance scale which is excellent. I have many artisan soaps that score lower than Tabac. Some of those soaps are considerably more expensive. Thus, price is not always an indicator of performance.
Similar threads
- Locked
