Nib's March Monthly Discussion: Nibs

[syngent]

NIBS




As mentioned before we are beginning a series of great discussions here in the NIB, to bring some great information into a single thread.
The goal is to have various threads on different topics as a resource to any members new or experienced to look upon when in need.

Since we are located here in The Nib, I thought a great place to begin a discussion would be with Nibs themselves.
There have been a lot of scattered questions and answers in recent days on the matter so it would seem timely to bring the topic up now.

Vintage vs. modern, gold vs. steel, your likes and dislikes, different brands, different sizes, different grinds, great histories, and questions about anything Nib related are welcome, Share the information you have, ask questions of those who may be able to answer, everything and anything is what its all about!

There is a lot of ground to cover, but we have a whole month to do so, I'll put together a few mini articles as we go, and you are encouraged to do the same.

Welcome to the first of what I hope to be many Nib discussions.

​

 

[ChefJohnBoy-ardee]

Flex nib awesomeness. Go! (I'm not talking about your Noodler's)

Every nib should have some flex to it. Give me some grace and style, actually just give me some line variation but I find flex nibs to be easier to write with than italics and they give me the line variations I love.

 

[syngent]

I wouldn't say every pen should need flex, though it certainly has its place in my rotation, but my 80's M200 pelikan has none at all, I love it for its smoothness of nib, and it is a workhorse pen. I'm not sure i would bust it out for a letter, as with personal matters i prefer a nib with character such as a flex nib or a stub/italic. Both have their place in my pockets.

BTW John for someone brand spanking new how would you describe to them with very fresh eyes on the matter what a flexible Nib is ?

 

[nemo]

Flex is good, but in the right place at the right time. In a controlled writing situation -- correct desk height, good paper, flat writing surface. Sometimes you need a smooth stiff nib for a small notebook, to jot a couple quick lines, funky bent paper, writing while traveling in a vehicle, maybe even some carbon sheets.

I need and use a variety of nib widths and flex. But I only carry two pens.

 

[ChefJohnBoy-ardee]

Ugh! I'm not a word smith. My mother's family is all engineers... My father's side has the artists. I'm a perfect cross.

Anyways, flex nibs make it possible to give a broad range of line variation with mostly downward strokes while giving pencil thin upward strokes. Flourishes and decorations tend to be from flexible nibs. Flexible dip nibs can give a huge range in line variation. Fountain pens are limited. Nibs flex by making the nibs themselves thinner. They have a very soft spring and on the really nice ones you don't notice much of the give or spring, other pens you have to really press or at least feel like you do.
Hopefully the picture helps. When in doubt, go to Binder's site.
Pic is all one pen. Varied pressure for different line widths. Italics are ok, I like the flex.

 

[ChefJohnBoy-ardee]

I use a Sharpie or an Expo the most for writing these days... I come home and want to just scrawl my ramblings on paper.

 

[jzuzphreek]

The problem I have is that it's so hard to decide which nib to get. I KNOW a pen is in my future, but I don't know if I should focus on daily writing and purchase a Fine or Extra Fine (I have some mediums, but I like thinner writing), or go the flexy, italic, stub route, since my mediums serve pretty well. I'm pretty sure that if I go with the Essential (my bday is April 5... and shipping is on April 1. Coincidence? I think not), that I'll try a stub. or their italic. or their needlepoint. UGH!!!!

 

[syngent]

Weh it comes to Nib purchasing I think a good place to begin would be with either a fine or medium style for a first time purchase so you have a good all around pen you can write letters as well as take to work, as you build a pen collection I would think a good veriaty makes for a great rotation of pens. Not everyone will like italics or stubs so having something to base an opinion off of is always a good start, then once you gain some experience you will know where you want to spend your money as time goes on

 

[jzuzphreek]

Weh it comes to Nib purchasing I think a good place to begin would be with either a fine or medium style for a first time purchase so you have a good all around pen you can write letters as well as take to work, as you build a pen collection I would think a good veriaty makes for a great rotation of pens. Not everyone will like italics or stubs so having something to base an opinion off of is always a good start, then once you gain some experience you will know where you want to spend your money as time goes on

Well, I know I WANT a stub or italic. I've been trying to use my 1.5mm PP as a point of reference, but it's quite a bit wider than the 1.1 italic available from FC. It's also a very non traditional nib.

 

[Nightshade18]

Ok, if nib related questions are welcomed, I'll throw this in the ring:

When we talk about 14 or 18k gold nibs, are these gold plated nibs?

I see some pens advertised as 'gold nib' and others as 'gold plated'. Completely different or completely the same? I feel like I should know the answer to this question, having used fp's a while, but as I don't, other might not too!

 

[syngent]

Gold plated is just like a razor... its a metal body in the case of a pen usually steel that has a layer of gold plated on top, and is cheaper to produce.
14k or karat nibs are solid gold nibs

 

[jzuzphreek]

Gold plated is just like a razor... its a metal body in the case of a pen usually steel that has a layer of gold plated on top, and is cheaper to produce.
14k or karat nibs are solid gold nibs

So then, gold plating would be more for looks rather than function like vintage Waterman/Pelikan, etc?

Would it be a true statement to say that gold nibs (not gold plated) will have more flex by virtue of being made out of gold rather than steel? Or is the more the relationship between the cut of the nib and the design of the feed?

 

[nemo]

Would it be a true statement to say that gold nibs (not gold plated) will have more flex by virtue of being made out of gold rather than steel? Or is the more the relationship between the cut of the nib and the design of the feed?

Great question! The answer is no. It is more determined by the shape, thickness, and the gold alloy. Many, many 14K gold nibs flex like nails (zero). A modern Pelikan stainless steel nib has more springiness than their current gold 14K or 18K. I am reluctant to use the word "flex" with almost all stock modern nibs. Steel is a flexible metal and can bend millions of cycles, think of the valve springs in your car's engine. But if you make two nibs with identical dimensions, the gold will flex more.

Did I mix everyone up, are we lost? Maybe this Pentrace article can help more than I can.

The plating is for traditional looks.

 

[syngent]

Also,(I havent read the article yet so not sure its in there), The lower the Karat, the softer the gold, so those who can modify modern or vintage nibs to make a flexible Nib will ask for a base nib of 14k usually over the 18k or 21k ones, But size has a lot to do with it as well, I know the Namiki(pilot) Falcon is a popular choice to have work done on and can be made into a great flex writer, but nibs that already have some flex are usually better to begin with, and vintage "spring" Nibs can be made into monsters there are more then a few choices to start with out there in that category, such as a waterman 42, or an Aikin Lambert are two i have seen do amazing things

 

[Snargle]

Also,(I havent read the article yet so not sure its in there), The lower the Karat, the softer the gold, so those who can modify modern or vintage nibs to make a flexible Nib will ask for a base nib of 14k usually over the 18k or 21k ones, But size has a lot to do with it as well, I know the Namiki(pilot) Falcon is a popular choice to have work done on and can be made into a great flex writer, but nibs that already have some flex are usually better to begin with, and vintage "spring" Nibs can be made into monsters there are more then a few choices to start with out there in that category, such as a waterman 42, or an Aikin Lambert are two i have seen do amazing things

Actually, the higher the carat number, the softer the nib will be. Pure gold (24 karat) is very soft...so soft that it will be unusable for a nib...so it is alloyed with other metals to make it harder and more durable. 18K (75%) gold) is usually the maximum used for pen nibs.

 

[syngent]

I have seen 21K nibs, I wonder how they hold up then

 

[Snargle]

I have seen 21K nibs, I wonder how they hold up then

Keep in mind that it's the "Iridium" tip that actually makes contact with the paper. I imagine 21K is usable, but I think it would be fragile and easily damaged. Definitely not something you'd want as an everyday carry.

 

[syngent]

they are used on higher end Sailor pens, for my budget that would not be a leave home pen. since we have a few moments here and are still on the first page i want to go over the sizes real quick for new guys popping in, and would love to hear what people prefer in nib sizes for different tasks as well

(EF) - Extra Fine
(F) - Fine
(M) - Medium
(B) - Broad
(BB) - Double Broad

these are the most common seen sizes, you can run into a triple broad sized pen which is just three times broad size, on top of these common size nibs you may also come across similar sizes with a (O) at the beginning, this (O) means Oblique with is a special grind to the end of the nib giving it a flatter and angled cut, it will add variation in line widths depending on the direction of travel and since the oblique is angle cut it will do so t different angels then Italics with are a straight flat end on the nib or a stub, which is a rounded italic for smoother writing but less crisp line variation

 

[nemo]

Actually, the higher the carat number, the softer the nib will be. Pure gold (24 karat) is very soft...so soft that it will be unusable for a nib...so it is alloyed with other metals to make it harder and more durable. 18K (75%) gold) is usually the maximum used for pen nibs.

"Soft" and "flexy" are two very different things. Yes, high karat gold is soft, as in malleable. If you've repaired nibs, you know the gold in the higher karat nibs can be pushed around with a burnishing tool or a hammer nicely. But it's the other metals in the alloys and the heat treatment and annealing that change the microstructure of the gold to give the correct ductility for a nib. Too "soft" and it will permanently deform -- not good. Too much hardening and it won't bend, like a Sheaffer Lifetime nib.

I'm no goldsmith but I wish I knew some of the tricks they use. I know that after I've repaired (straightened) some nibs with catastophic damage they have changed their flexibility, perhaps it's work-hardening, I don't know. And then there is "age-hardening". Lots and lots of stuff to learn about gold nibs, it never ends.

 

[andrew98]

I have seen 21K nibs, I wonder how they hold up then

Keep in mind that it's the "Iridium" tip that actually makes contact with the paper. I imagine 21K is usable, but I think it would be fragile and easily damaged. Definitely not something you'd want as an everyday carry.

Sailor even made 22K and 24K nibs at one time or another. I've read that Sailor's 21K nibs are very nice, and I have one of their 14K nibs in a Sapporo (brilliant little pen). I'll let you know how a 21K compares later in the month.

-Andy