Newbie honing question

[Godshaveus]

Really new to this so bear with me please. I recently bought a 4k/8k norton that I lapped on wet/dry 80grit paper on a marble surface (don't have a lapping plate yet). I used the pencil marks method. All seemed good.

Then I bought a natural welsh finishing hone (12k - 16k). Lapped it on 320 grit wet/dry. Didn't use pencil as this was obvious when it was done. All still seemed pretty good. Nearly time to start learning to hone on stones (have used lapping paper to this point)

Then I bought a Taidea 1000 1K corundum whetstone for bevel setting. This was my cheapest purchase but by this stage I was thinking of budget. It arrived yesterday. Now I'm very confused as this feels to the touch smoother than the 4k norton and easily as smooth as the 8k?

Does the 4k need a lot more lapping as it feels a hell of a lot rougher?
Could this 1k really be 6k because that is what it feels closer to, to my untrained fingers? Or is it just the fact that it is corundum that it feels smoother?

On an unrelated note... I have a cheap 400/1000 oilstone. Can I lap the other stones with this or is it a daft idea?

 

[Krodor]

Lapping your 4/8 on 80 grit I'd say would leave a rough finish. Do it again at 4 or 600 grit. Same goes with your finishing hone.

 

[jard011]

I just bought my first hones a few days ago. My Norton 4k/8k were very rough. I lapped them with 220 grit and they are rather smooth now. I finished with the Norton lapping stone but didn't notice any difference to the touch. It did take a lot of lapping to smooth them though. I probably spent a good 45 mins on each side but they were very uneven.

 

[Alum of Potash]

Really new to this so bear with me please. I recently bought a 4k/8k norton that I lapped on wet/dry 80grit paper on a marble surface (don't have a lapping plate yet). I used the pencil marks method. All seemed good.

Then I bought a natural welsh finishing hone (12k - 16k). Lapped it on 320 grit wet/dry. Didn't use pencil as this was obvious when it was done. All still seemed pretty good. Nearly time to start learning to hone on stones (have used lapping paper to this point)

Then I bought a Taidea 1000 1K corundum whetstone for bevel setting. This was my cheapest purchase but by this stage I was thinking of budget. It arrived yesterday. Now I'm very confused as this feels to the touch smoother than the 4k norton and easily as smooth as the 8k?

Does the 4k need a lot more lapping as it feels a hell of a lot rougher?
Could this 1k really be 6k because that is what it feels closer to, to my untrained fingers? Or is it just the fact that it is corundum that it feels smoother?

On an unrelated note... I have a cheap 400/1000 oilstone. Can I lap the other stones with this or is it a daft idea?

First, be sure that your oil-stones are not water-stones and your water-stones are not oil-stones!

Normally, I do not use oil-stones with water-stones as this risks to introduce oil to the water-stones, potentially ruining them. Japanese synth water stones will feel generally smoother for a comparable grit rating when compared to Norton synth water-stones; and the Japanese stones seem to be on a slightly different rating system than the Nortons, which allege to be JIS as well, but do not seem to be (long, debatable topic here!). Lapping your 4k/8k Norton synth and your Welsh slate up to 325x-400x on w/d sandpaper with water is fine, but do it on a flat surface like thick 8 mm glass. I believe that AJ says not to lap his Welsh slate higher than 400x. As for a 1k bevel-setter, I wouldn't necessarily skimp on this as bevel-setting is a very important step in the honing process. You have a 4k/8k Norton already, so why not a 1k Norton as well? But if the Taidea 1k corundum is a synth water-stone (and not an oil-stone), it will probably get the job done. Just keep it lapped. There is a cheap 400/1k combination synth water-stone out there as well that is good for both chips and bevel-setting.

P.S.: Welcome to B&B! I like your alias. It now has me thinking about that song by the Sex Pistols, "God Shave the Queen"!

 

[Godshaveus]

Thanks for the advice guys. I did some more lapping on the 4k/8k today and it seems much better (though I might do more on the 8k side tomorrow as I'm not 100% happy with it).

I wasn't prepared for just how much lapping that needed considering how much talk there is of it being 'the' stone to get. The natural welsh one and the japanese one came virtually ready to use. Its like buying a car and having to change it's tyres and oil before you can drive it lol.

The norton 400/1000 would be nice, even for the width, but I'd nearly buy something that doesn't require 2 hours of lapping and 2 weeks of waiting for it to arrive from the USA (even China to europe is faster). That said, I might even invest in a lapping stone in the meantime.

 

[Alum of Potash]

Just to clarify: there is no Norton 400/1k that I know of (rather it's more like 220/1k). I was referring to an Asian synth water-stone (Japanese? Chinese?) that is currently sold on the European market. If I find a link, I'll post it here.

Edit: here's a link to the stone in question: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kai-Japanes...arpening-Stone-AP-0305-400-1000-/330948701084. I've seen them in France, so in addition to eBay/USA they are also available in the EU.

Maybe it's just a turn of phrase, but spending two hours to lap a Norton seems odd to me, especially on 80x paper. Nortons are reputed to arrive from the factory needing lapping, though, in order to make them flat.

 

[Godshaveus]

Just to clarify: there is no Norton 400/1k that I know of (rather it's more like 220/1k). I was referring to an Asian synth water-stone (Japanese? Chinese?) that is currently sold on the European market. If I find a link, I'll post it here.

Edit: here's a link to the stone in question: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kai-Japanes...arpening-Stone-AP-0305-400-1000-/330948701084. I've seen them in France, so in addition to eBay/USA they are also available in the EU.

Maybe it's just a turn of phrase, but spending two hours to lap a Norton seems odd to me, especially on 80x paper. Nortons are reputed to arrive from the factory needing lapping, though, in order to make them flat.

Thanks for that. I'll see how the 1k stone I have goes for bevel setting and if it is too much of a struggle then the stone you linked looks pretty good. I have 2 razors ready for bevel setting tomorrow so if I return here in tears you'll know it was as successful as teaching my dog algebra

Yeah, the Norton took some serious lapping. One youtuber recommended taking about 1/16 inch off the 4k side straight away. Obviously with sandpaper this takes a bit. I also moved from 80 grit to 320 after an initial run and then regretted it after the 8th sheet

 

[Gamma]

General consensus around the intertubes is that taking about 1/16" off a Norton before starting to use it - is probably a good thing. Lap away.
Moving up to 300x-ish w/d is a good move. When done, check for flatness when wet and dry and then again when wet.
The dead sheets of w/d are why alot of us get DMTs - I still use a lot of w/d though.
Lapping under running water is best. Gotta clear the swarf to get a flat surface on the stone.

 

[Oscroft]

...2 weeks of waiting for it to arrive from the USA (even China to europe is faster)...

Classic Hand Tools in the UK appears to stock Norton stones. I've not bought from them so I have no idea how long they'll take - I just found them while searching for my own stones (I went for Naniwa stones myself).