New Zenith Manchurian 506A

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

How would you say the Zenith Manchurian knot compares to the Shavmac 2 band silvertip and D01 badger knots?

I love the Zenith Manchurian, especially for its backbone. I plan on ordering some customs from you this year and not sure which of the 2 badger knots to choose from. I’d like one that has similar backbone to the zenith Manchurian (though if I’m being honest with myself, eventually I’ll end up with both knots )

I have only one Shavemac D01 two band. Mine is a butterscotch beehive pictured brand new below. (Another D01 two band, smallish, in the flattop shape, is expected soon.)

In my opinion, no other brush in my collection compares to my D01 two band. I've used it many times, and have not noticed much breaking in, but some. It is still very stiff, with enormous presence. For painting, it is plenty soft. When mashed into my face, and splayed a bit, it might feel somewhat harsh compared to most other knots, but, of course, that's subjective.

Don't get me wrong. It's a knot I like. I'm mostly saying it might be an acquired taste. It also might be a knot you don't like, and won't ever acquire a taste for.

I'm glad to have mine, and thought it would be my one and only D01 two band, on the theory that one D01 two band is plenty. (For some folks one is one too many, but they are easy to sell.) However, I recently ordered another. We'll see how my second D01 two band compares.

I also have a blue handled Shavemac non-D01 two band.

Mine is a huge knot. It was custom ordered with an extra dense non-D01 knot. The knot is very soft albeit not three band soft. It has great backbone, delicious scrub, and is a treat to use. It is an excellent knot which I think would suit just about anyone.

I have two Zenith Manchurians. Both are excellent. They're similar to one another but also somewhat dissimilar. Twins, they are not.

The copper handled brush was purchased new. Initially, it had incredible stiffness, the backbone of a dinosaur, and the scrub of a wire brush. It was not soft at all outside of painting. I was warned about it, so I was very careful not to scrub off my skin, and I'm exaggerating only a little bit.

I've use the copper handled Zenith at least 150 times, probably more like 200 times. Its transformation has been gradual and interesting. Now, it is extremely soft, but it still has enormous backbone. Its scrub is now fully delicious. It is one of my very favorite knots. To be accurate, I always liked the knot, but not like I like it now.

The wooden handled Zenith has a much different knot. Actually, it reminds me more of my Simpson Manchurian knot that the copper handled brush's knot. It came to me already well broken in, and was likable from the beginning. It has changed over time, for the better. Now, it is quite soft with delicious scrub, and no downsides.

I do not have all the brushes and knots available, but I have several Mozingo knots, and several Saponificio Varesino knots in both the larger limited editions and the regular SV 2.0 editions. Probably I have about fifty brushes or thereabouts, and like most of them, but would rank my Shavemacs and my Zeniths towards the top of the heap.

In my opinion, it is very hard to compare brushes and knots. With the caveats already mentioned, I think it hard to go wrong with these excellent brushes.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[Proper Irish]

I have only one Shavemac D01 two band. Mine is a butterscotch beehive pictured brand new below. (Another D01 two band, smallish, in the flattop shape, is expected soon.)


View attachment 1825782


In my opinion, no other brush in my collection compares to my D01 two band. I've used it many times, and have not noticed much breaking in, but some. It is still very stiff, with enormous presence. For painting, it is plenty soft. When mashed into my face, and splayed a bit, it might feel somewhat harsh compared to most other knots, but, of course, that's subjective.

Don't get me wrong. It's a knot I like. I'm mostly saying it might be an acquired taste. It also might be a knot you don't like, and won't ever acquire a taste for.

I'm glad to have mine, and thought it would be my one and only D01 two band, on the theory that one D01 two band is plenty. (For some folks one is one too many, but they are easy to sell.) However, I recently ordered another. We'll see how my second D01 two band compares.

I also have a blue handled Shavemac non-D01 two band.


View attachment 1825790


Mine is a huge knot. It was custom ordered with an extra dense non-D01 knot. The knot is very soft albeit not three band soft. It has great backbone, delicious scrub, and is a treat to use. It is an excellent knot which I think would suit just about anyone.

I have two Zenith Manchurians. Both are excellent. They're similar to one another but also somewhat dissimilar. Twins, they are not.


View attachment 1825795


The copper handled brush was purchased new. Initially, it had incredible stiffness, the backbone of a dinosaur, and the scrub of a wire brush. It was not soft at all outside of painting. I was warned about it, so I was very careful not to scrub off my skin, and I'm exaggerating only a little bit.

I've use the copper handled Zenith at least 150 times, probably more like 200 times. Its transformation has been gradual and interesting. Now, it is extremely soft, but it still has enormous backbone. Its scrub is now fully delicious. It is one of my very favorite knots. To be accurate, I always liked the knot, but not like I like it now.

The wooden handled Zenith has a much different knot. Actually, it reminds me more of my Simpson Manchurian knot that the copper handled brush's knot. It came to me already well broken in, and was likable from the beginning. It has changed over time, for the better. Now, it is quite soft with delicious scrub, and no downsides.

I do not have all the brushes and knots available, but I have several Mozingo knots, and several Saponificio Varesino knots in both the larger limited editions and the regular SV 2.0 editions. Probably I have about fifty brushes or thereabouts, and like most of them, but would rank my Shavemacs and my Zeniths towards the top of the heap.

In my opinion, it is very hard to compare brushes and knots. With the caveats already mentioned, I think it hard to go wrong with these excellent brushes.

Happy shaves,

Jim

Jim, that was a wonderful description of those knots and their characteristics! Thank you for such a detailed response!

I only have the zenith 507 Manchurian, which is the larger version of your wood handle Zenith (I believe that’s a 506?). Despite the handle size difference, I think they share the same 27.5mm knot?
I love that knot and all it‘s properties. It has the perfect amount of backbone, scrubbiness and seems to almost have magical properties when making lather. I just wish it was a little smaller.

I have 3 customs in mind I’d like to inquire about with Rudy and they’ll all be badger. I’m sure I’ll end up trying both of Shavemac’s badger knots in these unless I’m advised against it. While I’d like to get close to the Zenith Manchurian in backbone, I think I’d be fine if one of them had more backbone. I just don’t want less.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

Jim, that was a wonderful description of those knots and their characteristics! Thank you for such a detailed response!

You're welcome.

I only have the zenith 507 Manchurian, which is the larger version of your wood handle Zenith (I believe that’s a 506?). Despite the handle size difference, I think they share the same 27.5mm knot?

I believe they have the same knot.

I love that knot and all it‘s properties. It has the perfect amount of backbone, scrubbiness and seems to almost have magical properties when making lather. I just wish it was a little smaller.

Zenith makes a least one significantly smaller...

24 mm knot.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[Phoenixkh]

Jim, that was a wonderful description of those knots and their characteristics! Thank you for such a detailed response!

I only have the zenith 507 Manchurian, which is the larger version of your wood handle Zenith (I believe that’s a 506?). Despite the handle size difference, I think they share the same 27.5mm knot?
I love that knot and all it‘s properties. It has the perfect amount of backbone, scrubbiness and seems to almost have magical properties when making lather. I just wish it was a little smaller.

I have 3 customs in mind I’d like to inquire about with Rudy and they’ll all be badger. I’m sure I’ll end up trying both of Shavemac’s badger knots in these unless I’m advised against it. While I’d like to get close to the Zenith Manchurian in backbone, I think I’d be fine if one of them had more backbone. I just don’t want less.

I had Rudy reknot 3 of my favorite handles with knots that weren't my favorites. He used 26mm ShaveMac Two-band Silvertips in two of them... the same ESC Ultimate two tone aluminum handles and put a 28mm ShaveMac Two-band Silvertip in the other one, an Elite Razors Bloody Basin Jasper handle. They feel very similar to the SV and Zenith Manchurians, at least, for me.

Rudy now has an SV brush, I believe. He can do a much better job comparing them than I can. The man is a master brush maker and his knowledge is extensive.

That said, after I got my feet wet here on B&B for just a few weeks, I met Jim / @Chan Eil Whiskers . He's guided my brush purchases since that first meeting here. He and I enjoy the same face feel of a brush. This is totally subjective, but it looks like you prefer the same things in a brush that Jim does, at least, from the past few posts.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

I had Rudy reknot 3 of my favorite handles with knots that weren't my favorites. He used 26mm ShaveMac Two-band Silvertips in two of them... the same ESC Ultimate two tone aluminum handles and put a 28mm ShaveMac Two-band Silvertip in the other one, an Elite Razors Bloody Basin Jasper handle.

I'm a little confused. I think you're saying these three knots - two 26 mm Shavemac two bancs and one 28 mm Shavemac two band - replaced knots which were not your favorites. Pretty sure I have that right.

They feel very similar to the SV and Zenith Manchurians, at least, for me.

Similar for sure.

Rudy now has an SV brush, I believe. He can do a much better job comparing them than I can. The man is a master brush maker and his knowledge is extensive.

Ain't that the truth!

That said, after I got my feet wet here on B&B for just a few weeks, I met Jim / @Chan Eil Whiskers . He's guided my brush purchases since that first meeting here. He and I enjoy the same face feel of a brush. This is totally subjective, but it looks like you prefer the same things in a brush that Jim does, at least, from the past few posts.

I also enjoy three band silvertips such as these acquisitions.

The newest of my brushes is the small Red Dragon with a flattop. It's D01 three band, 22mm. So far I'm finding the brush to be much like a small two band in how it feels and in its performance characteristics, but I've only used it twice I think, so what do I know? Thus far, it's very much unlike the nice Racing Green LE. I like both brushes, but am surprised at how much they differ..

Much is subjective.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[Phoenixkh]

I'm a little confused. I think you're saying these three knots - two 26 mm Shavemac two bancs and one 28 mm Shavemac two band - replaced knots which were not your favorites. Pretty sure I have that right.





Similar for sure.





Ain't that the truth!

View attachment 1826531

View attachment 1826529

I also enjoy three band silvertips such as these acquisitions.

The newest of my brushes is the small Red Dragon with a flattop. It's D01 three band, 22mm. So far I'm finding the brush to be much like a small two band in how it feels and in its performance characteristics, but I've only used it twice I think, so what do I know? Thus far, it's very much unlike the nice Racing Green LE. I like both brushes, but am surprised at how much they differ..

Much is subjective.

Happy shaves,

Jim

Yes. I ended up with 2 26mm Two-band Silvertips and gave one of them to Eric/ @Eric_75 as he’d never tried a badger. Rudy reknotted the other handle with the 28mm same knot.

 

[Eric_75]

Yes. I ended up with 2 26mm Two-band Silvertips and gave one of them to Eric/ @Eric_75 as he’d never tried a badger. Rudy reknotted the other handle with the 28mm same knot.

I love that brush, Kim. Thanks again.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

Yes. I ended up with 2 26mm Two-band Silvertips and gave one of them to Eric/ @Eric_75 as he’d never tried a badger. Rudy reknotted the other handle with the 28mm same knot.

Kim, that's a pretty terrific "starter" badger.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[Cino]

With the SV and Zenith knots being so similar, is it possible that Zenith makes the SV knots?

 

[Omega48]

Interesting question. I have always assumed that Saponificio Varesino outsourced the whole brush from Riva (rivabrushes.it). But I have no idea if that is really the case and I do not know if Riva make their own knots or if they buy them from Zenith. However I see at least a difference between the two knots. The shape of SV is a classic rounded bulb, while Zenith is a hybrid.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

With the SV and Zenith knots being so similar, is it possible that Zenith makes the SV knots?

It's possible. Kim's point about the shapes is important, but shapes are easy enough to change I'd think. To me, SV's Manchurian knots are much more broken in feeling when they are brand new than the one Zenith Manchurian I acquired new.

I've read that Zenith says their knots are not gelled (chemically I think that means). I'm pretty sure, 99.9 sure, I may have read the same thing about SV knots. SV knots, however, seem to have a bit of natural gelledness to them albeit nothing at all like the AP Gelousy gelled knot I used a while, and quickly grew to hate; I like the SV knots more than I hated the Gelousy, and that is saying something, but there is still a bit of gelledness to my five SV knots, and no gelledness to either of my two Zenith Manchurians, either now nor in the past.

Still, it's a good question, but SV ain't telling.

Happy shaves,

Jim