New with a twist

[ruckin]

I am unsure where I should actually start. To skip the boring bits of a long journey... I have been wet shaving for a few years. In an effort to reduce variables I started out doing the 3017 on my soaps before knowing there was a term. I have also don't toss my DE blades because I have x number of shaves on them. I try to let the blade tell me when it is done. Somewhere on the line I decided I wanted to pick up shaving with a straight. There is one more wrinkle... I went a bit bonkers when I started so I started signing up for the year long sabbaticals. This year will be the fifth year in a row.

But this is all about learning to use a straight? I have a heart steel razor, and a couple whip dog razors, and a razor shaped object from ... I think I got it from ebay (?). I also have a bit of sharpening stones. I mostly got them to support sharpening my woodworking stuff but apparently I went a bit crazy. I have dmt diamond stones that range from bumpy concrete all the way up to 8k. I also have some naniwa stones ranging from 1k-12k.

My plan is to stay in my sabbatical but spend the rest of the year learning and planning. Saturdays seem to the be only day that has enough room in my schedule to even try to shave with a straight. The last couple weeks I have been able to do a full N->S pass with a bit of Ear to nose on the upper cheek. I generally follow up with a pass (and maybe some cleanup) with my DE. My weekday DE routine is a single ATG pass with a second pass/clean up in random directions so I don't expect a N-S pass to be optimal.

I want to learn to shave with a straight, but probably just as important I want to figure out how to maintain and restore an edge to shaving sharpness.

Unless I hear that this is a bad idea I will probably start multiple threads to work on the various skills.

I will try to focus on the mechanics of shaving here. I am left handed but I can use my right hand when needed so I am a bit ambidextrous because the world would kill me if I wasn't

I understand the skin stretching from when I learned to shear sheep My skin is not as floppy but the principle seems the same. I am looking for tips/grips to figure out how to stretch and work on XTG or ATG stokes along the neck, jaw, and chin. Heck an XTG stoke on the cheek past the ear is not something that I can do yet. Pointers to what I can read or try would be greatly appreciated.

I also need to learn how to maintain an edge as I can't keep shipping off a razor when I no longer seems to work to get worked over by someone. My understanding is that stropping can delay this and I think I am kind of understanding it but should I start a topic in the strop thread?

I have taken my RSO (I think it says "krystal edge") I have looked at the the growlermonster.com website as well as a series of 9 videos about how to hone a razor (It was on B&B but browser crashed so I lost the links). I have been using my 1200 grit DMT and have been working on holding stone in one hand and razor in the other and applying the minimum pressure I could to keep the spin on the stone. I am proud to say it is better than a butter knife now... and will take hair off the arm if I do it like a pocket knife. 1/4" above the arm I might as well be using the butter knife... I need to find my lighted loupe to really give the edge a close look to see *** is going on.

The problem I have is that I am still in a sabbatical and have committed to not buying shaving stuff until 2021. With that in mind I will concentrate my efforts on reading stuff online or using stuff I already have until next year.

 

[xmacro]

Honestly, if its info and how-to's you're after, use the search bar. There's a decade plus of info on these boards from decades long straight shavers, many of whom have stopped posting as the years have gone on. The glory of Badger and Blade is that it's a tremendous repository of knowledge saved up over the years if you're willing to dig a bit for it.
Feel free to start threads and ask about something if you're not sure, but there's a 99% chance you'll only scratch the surface of what's known about it and miss out on years of other answers on the same topic if you don't use a search

 

[KW Driver]

you have adequate stones to maintain your blades, if you lap and maintain your stones. if they're well enough honed now, you'll just need to touch up the blades with your 12k. the sooner you touch up a blade, the higher grit stone you can do it with. let it go too far and you may need to go down to 8K then 12, for example. and why shave with a subpar edge? and I assume you're using a strop. cool. I would stick with the Nanis on your razors personally.

as a technique, I would occasionally send out a blade to compare my edges to a good honer or to try a different stone finish to see if I liked it.

I shave single handed (righty, and plenty do). if you want to use both hands, cool. want to go singled, cool. you just have to work at and with it to find your flow and technique. there are plenty of different vids out there that you can cherry pick techniques from. it really just comes down to repetition. the more you do it, the better you'll get at it. the common wisdom when I started was 50-100 shaves to get routinely competent. once a week isn't the fastest/best way to build muscle memory and neural pathways, but do what you have to do. if you've get a few razors with good edges, dulling one to practice with during the week is a potential option I suppose.

learning to shave, and hone at the same time is introducing a whole lot of variables to figure out that can be frustrating. you'll learn quicker if you shave on known good edges, then focus on honing.

read through the various subsections here, and keep at it. good luck and welcome to it.

 

[Slash McCoy]

Well, the year is almost done anyway. And you do need to do your homework before you whip out that credit card and start buying more stuff. That's my site, by the way. Glad you found it useful.

How many complete shaves have you successfully completed, with a straight razor? If you are more than a month of shaves in, and you have sampled at least one truly shave ready edge, then I would say you are ready to start honing if you think you are ready. I have a suggestion and you can take it or leave it.

Newbie Honing Compendium | Badger & Blade

Read that thread. It is sort of the backbone or index thread for what we call "The Method". The method is not art and it is not science. It is simply following instructions to the letter with absolute precision, never deviating, never omitting or adding or changing anything, and ending up with a splendidly sharp edge. If you can follow instructions, you can create a better than professional quality edge on your first or maybe second attempt, and it won't cost all that much for the equipment to do it. But the trick is you have to absolutely stick to The Method like a catechism. If you depart from it you are doomed to failure. You won't get your early release from honing purgatory and you will labor and suffer along with the others maybe for a very long time until you get even a satisfactory edge.The problem is many begin but most stray from the path sooner rather than later. But if you follow instructions accurately and without question you will get your first science fiction sharp edge in less time than it takes for an ordinary acolyte to learn how to soak his Bear Moo properly. There will be details that seem unimportant or too difficult to be practical. Think of them as traps set by the honing devil to capture your soul on the way to honing heaven. Temptations. Evil suggestions masquerading as good ideas.

So you have the main thread. But within that thread are several links to other threads. You must read them, too. Beginning to end. The reason is for a few years The Method was a work in progress, with new developments at every turn. It probably still is a work in progress, there just hasn't been any significant addition in a while. And the threads are long. So, you got a lot of reading to do, and notes to take. But not so much stuff to buy, and the stuff you will buy is a lot cheaper than premium whetstones.

So what is so special about The Method? Nothing, really, except it does not endeavor to "teach" you anything. It is JUST A METHOD, DOCUMENTED WITH INSTRUCTIONS THAT ANY BEGINNER SHOULD BE ABLE TO FOLLOW. It is a list of things to do and conditions to meet that when done in proper sequence, delivers a surprisingly sharp and smooth edge on a straight razor.

Have you ever painted a "paint-by-the-numbers" picture? Little blobs of nothing, each with an outline and a number within, every number corresponding to a particular paint color. The painter simply paints the blob with the appropriate color and moves on to the next. In the end, he has a perfect picture of dogs playing poker or Elvis on stage, executed well enough to grace the wall over the couch in your trailerpark palace, even if The Louvre doesn't have a place to display it. The painter did not become an artist and did not learn anything so there was no learning curve. The complete project from conception to framing took only the time required to complete the steps. How many years would a man study art and practice before he can even paint CATS playing poker, let alone dogs? Or create, on his own and with his own talent, a painting of Liza Minelli, let alone a perfect likeness of The King in all his glory and sequins? I'll tell you how many years. A LOT of them. And you can paint-by-the-numbers it in a weekend.

Honing by The Method is similar. You don't waste time learning to be a honemeister. You simply hone and do it correctly the first time because you are simply following directions. No learning. Just doing. The only catch is you must be willing and able to follow directions without hesitation and without freestyling. It is not the only way to hone but it is the only way to get an insanely sharp edge first time at bat for a newbie with a $100 or so budget. The slightest compromise leads to others. A single detail might be and usually is much more important than it appears. You leave something out and FAIL, and wonder how it could be. Then you buy $400 worth of stones and you rub rub rub and buy more and rub more and eventually you get an edge that you can shave comfortably with, and you go, "There. I KNEW that Method stuff was a load of crap. Look at this glorious HHT3 edge I have created!". Meh. No skin off my nose.

 

[global_dev]

I also need to learn how to maintain an edge as I can't keep shipping off a razor when I no longer seems to work to get worked over by someone. My understanding is that stropping can delay this and I think I am kind of understanding it but should I start a topic in the strop thread?

ask your questions,

stropping is typically described as tightening up the edge by aligning the edge and lightly polishing.The jury is out by some if you rely need to strop. Most do strop.

if you feel the edge is deteriorating, if stropping does seem to work some go back to high grits to work the edge. Some use pastes, etc to keep the edge up to par.

some use a hanging strop, some use a paddle, others use a loom. Your choice.

Give the method beveling a go if you like. Eventually you’ll figure out what you like, but remember the base of the edge is the bevel and it needs to be 100.

 

[ruckin]

Thank you for the responses. I might be tied up with that reading material though the end of the year. I am making a tentative list of stuff to find or acquire in order to fill in the gaps of the stuff I already have. That thread (and the related sub threads) is going to keep me busy for awhile and I want to see how the story ends prior to actually acquiring anything, but it sounds like some lapping film will be in my future and a big enough flat/rigid enough to flatten the stones I do have.

Hopefully in the next few weeks I might get further along in the threads and can formulate some reasonable questions (that haven't been asked/answered a bazzilion times)

 

[global_dev]

if you feel the edge is deteriorating, if stropping does seem to work some go back to high grits to work the edge.

oh man, my typing is horrendous. I meant to say “if stropping DOESNT seem to work..”

 

[ruckin]

Yes, I have a strop. I am unsure how much/often I should do it though... I have a hanging one that has a leather and cloth section. I also have a chunk of leather glued to a bit of wood that I picked up somewhere (either whipped dog or someone in Idaho that honed one of my razors). Is there a way to tell or do folks just count?

Wow @Slash McCoy that newbie thread is deceiving... The first "read this" thread is about 250 pages long. I did get side tracked on a shorter side thread but I have made it up to spring of 2013 in the story so far. I am taking some notes and noticing some reoccurring themes but am curious to see how the story ends.

I am 4 years and 10 months into a sabbatical so I am going to make due with what I have but for some reason I couldn't resist the urge to try to hone my RSO. I am left handed so I hold the razor in the left hand and the DMT 1200 in my right hand. I would assume it is broken in since I use it to sharpen hand planes and chisels often. I am unsure how many laps I did because I lost count but it was alot (well north of 100 laps). I cant remember the exact sharpness scale but I am going to have to add a new level. Level 0 - as sharp as a butter knife. It does pretty well with soft butter but be careful if you just took the butter out of the refrigerator. The TLDR; is it is not sharp.

Never fear somewhere in the mega thread I saw use a sharpie and see what is going on. The first dumb thing I was doing was putting the razor too far onto the stone and it lifted the heel. Ok I feel dumb so I refresh the sharpie and don't try to hone the shoulder. I take 10 more laps and the back side of the blade (one the stone for the push stroke) has a nice even line of metal. The front side of the blade (on the stone for pull stroke) has 2-3x the wear at the heal and toe for 12mm at the heel and 8mm at the toe. But almost no shiny metal in between. This tells me that the center of the pull stroke is not touching the blade. but push stroke seems fine. Not exactly sure what to do

So I pull out different razor (zy430) and put sharpie all over the blade. I do 20 laps and the shiny metal is showing on both sides kind of evenly. So I do 20 more laps, then twenty more. I then test it on my arm... Hey it shaves at least as good as my pocket knife! I then pass it above my arm and it makes alot of ting ting ting noises but I don't actually see any hair on the blade or falling to the ground.

Hopefully somewhere in the rest of that thread there is a post about how to move all the excess sharpie marks?

Based on what I have read so far I need something rigid and flat in a 4x12 is size that is light enough to hold in hand. The exact material seems to be evolving as the thread goes on. I will also need some films but will assume that vendors/deals from 2013... might be different in 2021. I also need to up my optical inspection game. I have a loupe somewhere in a box with my soldering and electronics stuff but have not found it yet, but it sound like folks like usb (or actual) microscopes to really see what is going on with the edge.

In the mean time I plan on staying in the sabbatical and reading the threads to see how the technique morphs over time.

 

[global_dev]

Based on what I have read so far I need something rigid and flat in a 4x12 is size that is light enough to hold in hand.

why 4x12? Anything 6x2.5 to 9x3 should be good.

 

[ruckin]

Ok, I guess the size should be based on the sizes of film that I use. I think I want it a smidge bigger than the film. I would like the film to be at least three inches wide so I don't need to x stroke (I am kind of a spaz and the simpler the stroke the more likely I will do it right).

 

[global_dev]

Understood, good luck with learning to hone!

there are a couple of ways to address an edge making full contact to make sure you are hitting it.

some like to continue at low grit until everything touches. I think thats what the wobble test addresses. I dont prefer this approach. Some love it.

some like to swing the edge a rolling stroke. Doesnt need to be an X stroke though.

some like to work the area that isnt being hit separately through “maneuvers” like lifting a toe, riding a corner, , applying a bit more torque, or something like that.

make sure you if a razor was honed with tape before and you try to hone or finish without tape, you wont be hitting that bevel at first, you’ll need to work to the new bevel reveal, which will begin slightly higher up the blade.

and in case your just talking about sharpie over zealous marking. Sanitizer,nail polish remover, and sometimes soap will take care of it.

 

[ruckin]

Thanks, I think the only thing that help when the middle is off the stone would be maybe more torque (weight on the edge) but then I would need to do that every time at every grit right?

 

[Slash McCoy]

First. your stropping. Find a few youtube videos. Most are good. You strop on hanging leather before each shave. Usually about 50 laps. The strop does not remove steel. It does not sharpen. It aligns and burnishes.

If you start with a true shave ready razor then you have a leg up in the game. You can begin by maintaining with the balsa. Or just let it go, and when it starts getting dull, refresh with 1u film. So there is two ways to take this one bite at a time. When you try to make a completely dull razor shave ready, you have to go through the entire process at once.

Due to the extremely obtuse bevel angle, the ZY is not such a good beginner razor. The steel is okay but the bevel angle is borderline for sure, almost 20 degrees, sometimes over. Yeah it will work but meh. Underwhelming. Get a nice vintage instead.

Stick around and read read read. This is a good place to learn.

 

[ruckin]

Thanks Slash, I have a couple of razors I got from whipped dog (back when he did the ugly unseen). One of these is what I am using to teach myself to shave. I usually only have time to use a straight on the weekends. But it sounds like I need to up my stropping laps up to 50.

I am only using what I have on hand (due to sabbatical) so I figured I would try to learn how to do the bevel part with my *** razors that I have. Next year I plan on getting some film and maybe balsa so I can properly maintain the vintage razors I have. Maybe I should just put everything on pause till next year so I can get the supplies I need to make the process fully work.

 

[Slash McCoy]

If you have some Whipped Dogs, your bevel is set and they have dulled through normal use. No need to set the bevel. All you need is a finisher such as the very popular Naniwa 12k SuperStone, or lapping film and a 3x12 piece of 3/4" thick acrylic from TAP Plastics. Either one will bring the edge back up if you do your part. From either one, you can further improve (and maintain) the edge with a progression lf pasted balsa exactly as in the pasted balsa strop thread, linked in the Newbie Honing Compendium, AKA "The Method".

A pic of your strop and your razors might be helpful.

 

[Slash McCoy]

why 4x12? Anything 6x2.5 to 9x3 should be good.

In the early days of film honing, a 4 x 12 polished marble bullnose edge tile was a popular plate to stick the film onto. Actually, 3" x 12" is a much better size, and most of us now use 3/4" acrylic for several reasons. But the four inch thing stuck around a while.

 

[global_dev]

the film sheets typically come 9x12 or 3x9?

 

[Tomo]

the film sheets typically come 9x12 or 3x9?

8.5x11 is the typical sheet size. Be sure not to get the adhesive backed version.

 

[Slash McCoy]

Usually film is cut in thirds, lentghways. There is also 9x13 film.

 

[ruckin]

As requested here is a picture of my razors. I use the light colored one on some weekends to try to learn how to shave. I can't remember if I got it from whipped dog or another hone person. The middle razor is the ZY and the bevel looks like I would expect. The Krystal is the one that is annoying.... note the wear on the ends but not the middle. The other side has even wear that looks like the zy.

And a better view of my sharpie edges

Since I am in the 2020 shave sabbatical and I want to refrain from purchasing anything until the end of the year. I am about 1/3 of my way through the first newbie thread. It seems that the method gets refined a bit along the way. I figured that I had a couple of non-sharp razors and the right stones to set a bevel I could at least do that while I wait the last two months of 2020 and finish reading up on the evolution of the method.

I am pretty sure that I once I am done with the sabbatical and get some films and a flat plate of some sort I will be able to make the zy shave. I think to make the Krystal work I will need to learn a bit more about the process and learn how to fix stuff like this.

My noob thoughts are that if I assume my DMT stone is flat (I have not checked it) and I have a good bevel on one side but no contact in the middle of the other the spine or the edge on that side is not planar. I suppose the next step is to put it on a flat plate and test it with a thin feeler (or shim)? Or should I measure the spine thickness? I don't have a micrometer (only some calipers) but I might be able to borrow a reasonable one for an afternoon.

In the mean time I will try to use the light colored razor once or twice a weekend as I have time to work on the muscle memory part. I am at the point where I can do most of a N->S pass. I have some difficulties around the chin and getting right up under the nose. I am getting better at stretching to make the jaw line ... not on the corner of the jaw. I am also trying to figure out which hand holds the razor where.

When I use a DE I normally start with a single S->N pass then the second pass is touch up round the mouth, jaw line, and neck.