New to Nicks, what rocks?

[Stockman1107]

Decided to have a crack at the "Manly art of Shaving with a SR", why not, at 56 years of age, a few more facial scars won't make me any prettier.
Purchased a second hand Friodur 472, seems to be an oldie but a goodun ( bit like myself), that seems to have minimal spine wear, so hopefully I will be able to learn the art of honing and put some sort of shavable edge on it. I think of myself as a fairly capable free hand sharpener of knives, but I do know that this is a different ball game.
I have the following stones in my collection and would really appreciate opinions on which of these would be a sensible progression, or should I be looking at additional stones.
Shapton Pro 320, 1000, 2000, 5000 and 12,000, Transluscent Ark ( very hard 2"x6" ), Turkish Stone ( 2" x 6" quite hard maybe 2-3K grit ), BBW/Cotti ( 1.5" x 6" too hard and refined for knives ), 2 Washita's including recent acquired Lily White, JNat ( possibly ) very hard and produces a high polished refined edge, and an unknown stone from the UK ( maybe Water of Ayr, but still working out why it randomly scratches, possible toxic inclusions?)
Any help would be gratefully appreciated.

 

[SliceOfLife]

First, please put up pictures of the naturals (Particularly Jnat, Coti, and mystery slates).

Second, with what you've got I'd do the following:


Shapton Pro 2000 > 5000 > 12,000 > Coticule (with water, rinse it regularly if it starts to raise slurry) for about 30-50 light passes.


Once you're getting comfortable shaves that way; then I'd take the coticule out and sub in the translucent ark with oil for 100ish passes after the 10000.

Once that's figured out, then I'd start experimenting with the Jnat... Start with it like you did the coticule.

Once you've established what the edges are going to feel like off these stones... Remove the 10,000. It's not necessary, you can go 5000 to Coti/Ark/Jnat. It just makes it a little easier to know you're getting the edge those naturals are capable of by refining the edge way past what you need to before using them.

I love Washita, but for knives, not razors. I never bother with BBW. I rarely use Turkish stones, and then only with knives.

Can't advise on the UK stone until we know what it may be, so waiting on pictures.


You can shave off the 10,000 without using the naturals... but high end synthetic finishes can be tricky to get comfortable, especially for newer shavers... they tend to turn out with a microscopic sawtooth that makes them nick you really easily... whereas most natural finishers leave a less aggressive edge (Coticules in particular are known for this)... so I'd skip trying to shave off it for now.

 

[Stockman1107]

Thanks for the suggestions, here are the naturals.

Mystery UK Stone

Coti and Turky

Possible JNat? Awesome finishing stone on knives that need high polished and refined edge.

 

[duke762]

Nice Friodur. Much too nice to learn to hone on. Do what Slice says bu, maybe it would be a good idea to get some Ebay beaters to start out on. I came from a back ground of knife honing and thought I could hone any and everything. Got very humbled honing razors. Totally different ball game. Knife honing preconceptions may have slowed my progress. 7 years into this and I'm still learning and I'm not gonna quit.

I'd send the Friodur out to have it professionally honed and compare the beater razors to the Friodur edge to judge your progress. I laugh at the shaves I had when starting out. I thought they were the bees knees at the time. I keep seeing progress over the course of the years I've been at this. Every 6 months I throw rocks at my edges from 6 months earlier. The learning process slows over time but there is always more to learn.

You didn't mention a strop.....you're gonna' need one...

 

[Legion]

Sounds like you are pretty set up. Be conscious of keeping all the stones nice and flat. You can do it with wet/dry paper on glass, but an Atoma 400 diamond plate is easier.

Start with the shapetons, as this will give you the most repeatable results while you are learning. Once you feel you have that mastered experiment with the coti and Ark as finishers if you like. The Turkey and washita are not going to be much help here, keep them for your knives.

Yep, you will need a leather strop at least, and maybe a linen one if you choose. And a Sharpie pen/loope to check your bevel setting before you progress up the stones. This quick step has the potential to save you a HUGE amount of time.

 

[rbscebu]

@Stockman1107, all good advice above.

• Send the Friodur out to get professionally honed by someone who shaves daily with traditional SRs, has done so for years and has the experience to properly hone a SR to truly shave-ready.
• Buy yourself one or two cheap (but still good shavers when properly honed) SRs, like Gold Dollar 208 (about US10 incl. shipping) or Titan ACRM-2 T.H.60 (about US20 including shipping). Both available on AliExpress. They will not come shave-ready, like most factory edge SRs.
• Hone your cheap SR(s), not the Friodur. Just use the Firodur as a comparison SR against your self-honed razor(s).
• For now, just use your Sharpton Pro whetstones. Lap them flat, set the bevel and progress. You should be able to get a reasonably good shave off the 12k if you get everything right.
• Read the instructions:

Traditional SR Shaving Instructions for Beginners - Issue 7

Attached is the latest issue (issue 7) of Traditional SR Shaving Instructions For Beginners. The instructions have been revised to show the current knowledge and have been split up into parts for easier access. The parts are: SR Shaving Instructions QS Guide Rev A - a Quick-Start guide for...

www.badgerandblade.com

 

[Stockman1107]

Sounds like you are pretty set up. Be conscious of keeping all the stones nice and flat. You can do it with wet/dry paper on glass, but an Atoma 400 diamond plate is easier.

Yep, you will need a leather strop at least, and maybe a linen one if you choose. And a Sharpie pen/loope to check your bevel setting before you progress up the stones. This quick step has the potential to save you a HUGE amount of time.

Thanks fine Gents for all the excellent advise.
Couple more questions please.
#Legion - I do have an Atoma 140 and 400 that I use to keep all of my stones flat so have that base covered. I have a range of strops as pic below, all handmade by myself from Kangaroo and Horsehide and they work excellent on knives, but not sure if these pasted on wood type is suitable for SR or one requires a swinging strop.

Has been mentioned that I should start out SR honing using a cheapy /beater to start off with. Is it better to get a cheap new SR or a cheap second hand vintage? My thinking says cheap New might have poor grade steal / warps etc and might give me grief and a second hand vintage might be already be too far gone for an inexperienced honer to bring back to life.

The suggestions to get the Friodur professionally sharpened makes really good sense, I really need a base product to compare shave and sharpness when I start tackling my own honing. Any suggestions or recommendations for a great honers in West Aust, or Australia in general.

As always, feedback greatly appreciated.

 

[Legion]

Thanks fine Gents for all the excellent advise.
Couple more questions please.
#Legion - I do have an Atoma 140 and 400 that I use to keep all of my stones flat so have that base covered. I have a range of strops as pic below, all handmade by myself from Kangaroo and Horsehide and they work excellent on knives, but not sure if these pasted on wood type is suitable for SR or one requires a swinging strop.
View attachment 1599244

Has been mentioned that I should start out SR honing using a cheapy /beater to start off with. Is it better to get a cheap new SR or a cheap second hand vintage? My thinking says cheap New might have poor grade steal / warps etc and might give me grief and a second hand vintage might be already be too far gone for an inexperienced honer to bring back to life.

The suggestions to get the Friodur professionally sharpened makes really good sense, I really need a base product to compare shave and sharpness when I start tackling my own honing. Any suggestions or recommendations for a great honers in West Aust, or Australia in general.

As always, feedback greatly appreciated.

A (clean) bench strop will work, and it is what started with, but a hanging one does seem to work better for razors, for whatever reason. Vegetable tanned kangaroo leather is good, and it is what I use for my strops.

I prefer vintage razors, as a rule. Whether that is suitable as a beginner razor is 100% all about the condition of the razor. If you have access to one without funky hone wear or rust on the cutting edge, I'd go with that. New razors are not guarenteed to be without issues. IME usually issues that are harder to fix than the ones that come with age on a vintage.

As far as honing goes, there is a guy in QLD who has a pretty good rep. I've never used his services though, so I can't recommend on personal experience. But the guy who honed my first shave ready razor recommended him, and he knew what he was doing.

DC Blades / Straight Razors, Custom blades & Restorations Australia

DCBlades, Buy, Sell, restore and repair of Straight razors, Cut throat razors and Wet shaving equipment, Custom Straight Razors & Custom Knives, Razor honing, sharpening

www.dcblades.com

 

[SliceOfLife]

Uk doesn't look like a finisher to me, but can't be sure.

Jnat looks like it may be a nice finisher, but again, can't be sure.

Sorry can't be more helpful.

 

[Seelector]

I’ll second the recommendation to get an eBay beater to learn honing. I put years of hone wear on a nice (likely) NOS French razor while learning to hone. I read a hundred threads saying all newbies do that, but my ego told me it wouldn’t happen to me…

There seem to be Bengalls aplenty in AUS and you’re probably safe with one of those if it looks decent. Look for something without excessive hone wear and a no rust at the edge.

 

[Stockman1107]

I’ll second the recommendation to get an eBay beater to learn honing. I put years of hone wear on a nice (likely) NOS French razor while learning to hone. I read a hundred threads saying all newbies do that, but my ego told me it wouldn’t happen to me…

There seem to be Bengalls aplenty in AUS and you’re probably safe with one of those if it looks decent. Look for something without excessive hone wear and a no rust at the edge.

Just bought this one for a fifty, looks like there is a bit of hone wear, but seems quite even.
Should see it in a week, so here's hoping it will be a good way to start.

 

[Legion]

Just bought this one for a fifty, looks like there is a bit of hone wear, but seems quite even.
Should see it in a week, so here's hoping it will be a good way to start.
View attachment 1599284

Yeah, a bit of hone wear, but that should be a good place to start and get a feel for it.

 

[rbscebu]

Just bought this one for a fifty, looks like there is a bit of hone wear, but seems quite even.
Should see it in a week, so here's hoping it will be a good way to start.
View attachment 1599284

Nothing wrong with hone wear. Just shows that it has been honed with love .

 

[Seelector]

Just bought this one for a fifty, looks like there is a bit of hone wear, but seems quite even.
Should see it in a week, so here's hoping it will be a good way to start.
View attachment 1599284

Looks like a great blade

It has a smile so you’ll be able to practice your rolling x-stroke.

 

[SliceOfLife]

Yep, just enough meat on the bones that unless it's got a significant bend you won't have to deal with the stabilizer, so should be straightforward to hone, but as mentioned has a little smile, so will be real good practice.

That's the kind of a razor a really good restorer could make look almost perfect... but a beginner can definitely get shaving great. And Bengalls tend to be pretty popular (in line with PUMA's, W&B's,etc as the "famous" brands that hold value pretty well if in shaving condition), not a bad pick up.