New to honing. If you could start over which stones would you buy?

[Namkcakram]

Yeah idk about the 4%, one of mine makes noticeably keener edges on a level with Arks but i haven’t seen a sample size big enough to give percentages.

My advice would be to ask a known vendor for one that’s fast on water only and that way it’ll be easier to learn on and be great as a touch up stone forever

 

[Basil]

I agree the coti is such a useful stone. For the most part you can do a whole honing session on the one stone. Even if the edge isn’t up to par just put some tape on there and it’s almost always amazing.

I’ve also found that most stones will put a shaving edge on a razor. Some might feel a little tugging but even then it still cuts through the stubble and leaves you pretty smooth.

 

[stone and strop]

I've mentioned before the rare ultra-fine vintage coticules I seek out... and 4% is ballpark their representation in my experience. ;

I would not even put it so low given the number through my own hands but this was my point.
Most ARE ok, few are incredible.

 

[R7photo]

I’m new to straights started SR shaving Christmas when I got my new TI razor,, i knew nothing about honing but after needing to touch up my not shave ready razor , with help from forum members, purchased a 12 k Nani, and as soon as blade touch stone, I was hooked,,, so hooked purchased the original 8 k Snow White stone to add
( amazing stone)
I then
Purchased 2 jnats and now have the following stones inbound to add to my collection

Shapton Glass 2000, I think it’s HR but not sure
Model # 50302

And Shapton Glass 6000 HC

The edge finished on the Ozuka stone is simply marvelous , cuts and smooth out edge( testing the shobu mizu edge soon but I’m sure it will be even more marvelous

I’m thinking if buy used razors that need touch up or bevel set 2000 will work but I’m new so guessing

Japanese authentic rocks and now owning to parts of Japanese mountains, shobu mountain and Ozuku stones, besides looking amazing ( they are stones used for thousands of years on swords / razors and beside looks they perform amazing and the end edge obtained is simply outstanding thus far

Guess I have become a stone junkie as my glass stones arrive this week

Since my TI razor just got a perfect refreshing
8k, 12k to Ozuka , sadly new inbound glass stones will not be used now but maybe next touch up
Love this thread
Trying not to think about a coti or a ark to add[emoji28]
Cheers

 

[Jnatcat]

For me it would be a 1K to fix chips and such then a Shapton 4/8 glass and simple JNAT with a few nagura’s

 

[A Cut Above]

If you plan on setting bevels then a 1k or 2k stone would be the first stones. A 8k, ImperiaLaRoccia is a very good, reasonable stone or a JNAT can take you to a really nice finished edge. If you have the money an Ark stone or 30k stone for polishing.

 

[kohalajohn]

This thread is two years old. Rereading all of it, I am struck by how my ideas have changed over time.

I would not have thought of this two years ago, but now I would recommend a fifty dollar usb microscope.

Because how you use your stones is way more important than which ones you buy. And that means you need to share photos of your edges in order to get helpful feedback from this forum. It's been very helpful for me.

 

[buca3152]

At the time I started to see the scope was useless(to me ) I shared some shots with others. Using the exact same edge with a slight angle change and light adjustment I was greeted with "much better". Even though it was the exact same edge.

 

[Slash McCoy]

DIfferent viewing angles and lighting angles make a huge difference, yeah. That doesn't mean the microscope is useless, only that its use must be optimized for the most revealing shots. But this is the same for using a loupe, too. Or even a bare camera.

 

[FairlySlow]

The Naniwa 12k is the one I would not have bought. It is an excellent stone but I prefer film. The only stone I use is a Shapton Pro 1k for bevel setting. Film is simply easier - no maintenance. The less time I spent honing, the happier I be.

Finally. Somebody that uses the 1k pro. Was getting worried I picked a dud main bevel setter again

 

[Tomo]

This is an old post and I’m sure that the OP has already made his selection. It is a common question though so it’s still worth discussing. The brief was for a quality set of stones. Not something cheap that would be replaced quickly and end up not being used. The brief was for a complete set. With those parameters in mind I would recommend the following.

Atoma 400 diamond lapping plate
Shapton Glass box set (1k HR, 3k HR, 8k HC)
Suehiro Gokumyo 20k finisher

I think this fits the brief. This is a full progression of quality equipment. Nothing here will become obsolete. You could stop right here and get amazing edges for the rest of your days. You could also build on it by adding things in the future without having to replace anything.

I normally prefer natural stone finishers but in this case I’ve recommended a full synthetic progression. Synthetics are more consistent than naturals. As a beginner it’s useful to have equipment that you can be confident in. You don’t want to be wondering if your honing problems are the result of being unlucky with a particular natural stone. The recommended stones have a proven track record and a large following. You can be absolutely certain that the equipment is up to the job and there are plenty of people with the same equipment to ask for advice. A synthetic progression is also easier for a beginner to master. It’s straight bat honing without the tricks and quirks.

It’s not the cheapest set up but I think it’s decent value for money. It’s certainly a lot cheaper than jumping around from one thing to the next. The Shapton box set is cheaper than buying individual stones and if it doesn’t work out the Atoma and Shaptons can continue to be used for kitchen knives.

 

[Legion]

Atoma 400 for lapping
1k diamond for grunt work
large, fast coticule + slurry for low to mid range

The finishing stone is where it gets complicated. I have litterally dozens that all work, but they are all subtlety different. Pick one.

I suppose for cost + ease of use + end result, maybe a WOA or fine TOS? Foolproof, and I like the way those edges feel. But there are so many good options for finishing.

 

[jason12768]

More than the stones, I need the knowledge and skill I have now.
A synthetic 1K & 3K, maybe a 5K
Then a BBW and a Coticule, that's all I'd need for stones.

 

[Wid]

There is no real one stone for me. Close would be a Chosera 1K and a good Coticule. As far as NEED goes, that it.

 

[frbock]

I’d buy an Atoma 400 (for lapping) a Shapton pro 1500, Shapton pro 5,000, Shapton pro 8,000, a good hard Coticule, a good razor grade Jnat, and a translucent or black ark. I can do pretty much anything I want with that setup.

I don't have access to the article at the moment, but somebody actually calculated the effective grit of Arkansas stones by comparing the scratch patterns on an edge vs abrasives of known grit. A black is about 3,000, the translucent is about 3,800.
You could probably do the same experiments with water-stones, diamond or anything else.
At the end you'd have a scale where you could compare anything against a standard reference.

 

[Empire straights]

I don't have access to the article at the moment, but somebody actually calculated the effective grit of Arkansas stones by comparing the scratch patterns on an edge vs abrasives of known grit. A black is about 3,000, the translucent is about 3,800.
You could probably do the same experiments with water-stones, diamond or anything else.
At the end you'd have a scale where you could compare anything against a standard reference.

It's real, REAL hard to assign grit to natural stones(though you can get estimates) but through the geological processes in which natural stones are formed the abrasives take on different properties. Different shapes, size of abrasive gains, how much is exposed from the stone matrix, hardness, friability... all these things play huge factors in how those stones preform. In my limited experience with synthetic waterstones, I find that naturals can also change in use very quickly due to technique. Washitas are considered coarse, aggressive stones, but with the right touch you can pull a pretty nice shave out of the real old ones. Also with the right touch they can leave an edge on a knife that feels like a hacksaw blade. This exact thing is why I mostly use natural stones, because they have range and all leave different edges. Some pretty drastically too. In my humble and inexperienced opinion, this give me the ability to find tune an edge to exactly what I want for each specific usage I have for them. Synthetics pump out (x)# all day long, and quickly, but to me they're one trick ponies for the most part. Any stone that can play from 3k#-7k# is a gem more valuable than diamonds to me.

 

[Darth Scandalous]

Talking about "effective grit" with a hard ark ignores the fact that sharpening a knife or chisel on one is a completely different proposition from finishing a razor on one.

 

[Christian1212]

I think if I was starting over I would get:

Shapton glass 2k, 6k, 10k (or 4k and 8k glass stone with 1k chosera)
Shapton glass lapping plate
Dans surgical black 8x3

I would then hunt for top tier jnats/coticules.

 

[frbock]

It's real, REAL hard to assign grit to natural stones(though you can get estimates) but through the geological processes in which natural stones are formed the abrasives take on different properties. Different shapes, size of abrasive gains, how much is exposed from the stone matrix, hardness, friability... all these things play huge factors in how those stones preform. In my limited experience with synthetic waterstones, I find that naturals can also change in use very quickly due to technique. Washitas are considered coarse, aggressive stones, but with the right touch you can pull a pretty nice shave out of the real old ones. Also with the right touch they can leave an edge on a knife that feels like a hacksaw blade. This exact thing is why I mostly use natural stones, because they have range and all leave different edges. Some pretty drastically too. In my humble and inexperienced opinion, this give me the ability to find tune an edge to exactly what I want for each specific usage I have for them. Synthetics pump out (x)# all day long, and quickly, but to me they're one trick ponies for the most part. Any stone that can play from 3k#-7k# is a gem more valuable than diamonds to me.

The testing methodology relied on results, not measured grit. They compared the scratch size and density, and then compared to the results done by abrasive powders.
They took it from a question of actual particle size to what does that stone sharpen the same as.
This was not the original article I found, but the results are similar.

Arkansas Sharpening Stone Grits

Are Arkansas Sharpening Stone grits finer than we thought? A careful study of Arkansas stone grits by microscopic evaluation. Some surprising results.

www.bestsharpeningstones.com

 

[Mr Kooby Shemayrew]

The testing methodology relied on results, not measured grit. They compared the scratch size and density, and then compared to the results done by abrasive powders.
They took it from a question of actual particle size to what does that stone sharpen the same as.
This was not the original article I found, but the results are similar.

Arkansas Sharpening Stone Grits

Are Arkansas Sharpening Stone grits finer than we thought? A careful study of Arkansas stone grits by microscopic evaluation. Some surprising results.

www.bestsharpeningstones.com

Quote from the article on bestsharpeningstones.com:
“Black Arkansas - **Specific Gravity 2.55** | 7-7.5 micron | .00028' | Grit Equivalent: 2300-2500. While the Black Arkansas did have a few larger scratches, overall, it is a little finer than the 9 micron lapping film.

Translucent Arkansas - **Specific Gravity 2.53** | 5.5-6 micron | .00023' | Grit Equivalent: 3500-4000. It is clearly finer than the Black Arkansas. Most closely resembles the 5 micron lapping film.”

Note the specific gravities. These are examples of lower quality black and translucent Arks. Good effective grit range for knife work and they are, most likely, very attractively priced. For knife work, great stones.

Here are some examples of Arks from Dan’s:

Left to right
Dan’s washita —> 2.096
Dan’s hard —> 2.511
Dan’s black —> 2.652
Dan’s blue black —> 2.663

Dan’s hard, I agree, it is in the 5K range and that SG matches up pretty well. Dan’s black and blue black, however, hold their own against my Suehiro 20K. When burnished I would put them around the 15K range, give or take 5K, dependent on the hand of the honer.