What's new

New razor will not hold or take a good edge

I recently got two identical Dovo 5/8 razor. They were on sale, so 50% means get two pay for one, right:)

One of the razors came with a slight frown, while the other one had slight smile to it.
The first razor i honed took a good edge in a short time with a minimal amount of effort.
However, the second razor seems to suffer from some kind of overheating, or something caused by the bevel setting grinding at the factory.
The razor will not take a good edge. When i finally got a good edge, it failed during my first shave.

I have tried without tape, and with tape. I have used different types of synthetic and natural stones, with the same results.
When i use a white shapton glass stone i need to rinse the stone frequently, because larger bits of steel releases from the razor. I have only seen this with really hard steels, like one of my Hart razors. I have never seen this with Dovo razors.
The edge have been rehoned, from bevel set three times, with the same outcome.

This is the smiling razor. To me it seems like this was corrected by someone who burnt the edge on the grinding wheel.
There is also something strange going on with the grind. My only explanation is that the spine was lifted on the grinding wheel.

Is there any hope for this type of razor. If the edge have been burnt, is there any chance of getting to "good steel" at some point?

Does anyone have any experiance with this type of issue?
 

Legion

Staff member
It doesn’t sound good. If the heat treat is no good I don’t like your chances of drilling past it and keeping any sort of edge geometry.
 

rbscebu

Girls call me Makaluod
It does sound like the steel has been "burnt". Carbon steel used in most SRs will change if the steel's temperature gets to about 200°C. This can happen in less than a second with improper grinding, particularly in thin sections like we find in SR blades.

I have experienced one (only thankfully) SR that had been "burnt". It showed because of the colouration of the steel, which occurs at a temperature much higher than 200°C. That blade was totally useless. Fortunately the vendor gave me a full refund and allowed me to keep the SR for the scales.

Whether your "burnt" SR is salvageable or not will depend on the extent of the damage. If you can't get a refund, all you can do is try and see how much steel you need to remove to get to good steel.
 
It does sound like the steel has been "burnt". Carbon steel used in most SRs will change if the steel's temperature gets to about 200°C. This can happen in less than a second with improper grinding, particularly in thin sections like we find in SR blades.

I have experienced one (only thankfully) SR that had been "burnt". It showed because of the colouration of the steel, which occurs at a temperature much higher than 200°C. That blade was totally useless. Fortunately the vendor gave me a full refund and allowed me to keep the SR for the scales.

Whether your "burnt" SR is salvageable or not will depend on the extent of the damage. If you can't get a refund, all you can do is try and see how much steel you need to remove to get to good steel.
There is nothing to loose by taking off a little more steel to see if things get better. The edge had no visable sign of heat damage.
I will not bother trying to send it back to the vendor. Maybe i ended up just paying the full price for one:)
I have a old Heljestrand that was bought "restored". This behaves the same. This one was definitely burnt on a buffer.

I though Dovo had these basic things under control.
 
Maybe i am just imagining this, but the two razors also feels different on the stones.
Also if you joint the edge, i am setting the edge quite far back.

I might keep the thread alive, but now it should be called, drilling for good steel:)
 

Legion

Staff member
There is nothing to loose by taking off a little more steel to see if things get better. The edge had no visable sign of heat damage.
I will not bother trying to send it back to the vendor. Maybe i ended up just paying the full price for one:)
I have a old Heljestrand that was bought "restored". This behaves the same. This one was definitely burnt on a buffer.

I though Dovo had these basic things under control.
I burned a razor years ago on the grinder making a shorty. It ended up in the bin, it was pretty unsalvageable. Live and learn. Never did it again.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JPO
The steel used in Dovo razors is good. There is only one forge in Solingen that makes blanks for straight razors. Dovo, Boker, Wacker, & Ralf Aust all use the same blanks. I even have a couple of Brian Brown razors made from these blanks. However, good steel can be ruined by improper heat treatment or improper grinding.

I suspect you got the Dovo razors at a discount because they had been returned by previous purchasers. The vendor discounted the razors to get rid of them. I made that mistake once with a Hart Steel razor. I got it at a discount, but no matter what I tried, I never could get the razor to hold a decent edge. The steel was so hard that by the time I got the edge sharp, the edge would start to crumble (microchip) and the edge was very harsh. I keep the razor as a reminder that "bargains" are sometimes not even worth what you pay for them.
 
The steel used in Dovo razors is good. There is only one forge in Solingen that makes blanks for straight razors. Dovo, Boker, Wacker, & Ralf Aust all use the same blanks. I even have a couple of Brian Brown razors made from these blanks. However, good steel can be ruined by improper heat treatment or improper grinding.

I suspect you got the Dovo razors at a discount because they had been returned by previous purchasers. The vendor discounted the razors to get rid of them. I made that mistake once with a Hart Steel razor. I got it at a discount, but no matter what I tried, I never could get the razor to hold a decent edge. The steel was so hard that by the time I got the edge sharp, the edge would start to crumble (microchip) and the edge was very harsh. I keep the razor as a reminder that "bargains" are sometimes not even worth what you pay for them.
I got two identical razors. One was fine and the other was problematic. I just think it slipped through quality control.
I have two identical Hart razors, from the same artisan. One is good, the other one is as you describe. It is just too hard and brittle to take and hold an edge. Why, i am not sure.
I have a few other dovo razor that are just fine. This razor is probably just an exception.
 

Steve56

Ask me about shaving naked!
How much of what kind of tape?

I’d suggest just adding more and more tape as a diagnostic procedure. See what the edge looks like at every grit as you add tape.

I just finished honing a problem child razor, it would not take an edge with 1 layer of 1mil Kapton at 4k.Shiny lines and teeth, poor HHT.
With 2 layers of 1 mil Kapton, it took an edge up to the Shapton 8k HC and the edge held up for a 2-pass shave, and looked decent afterwards
So I refreshed the edge for final finishing on a Shapton 10k HR and the artifacts and poor HHT returned. I tried koma slurry (to work on that apex a bit) then tomo and finisher. That was better but I still had a shiny line in the middle with poor HHT.
I finished it with 1 layer of electrical and 1 layer of Kapton and got a straight even, edge and good HHT

I think, but do not know, that the temper at the apex isn’t right, I’ve seen this behavior on several razors and it gets worse as the grit gets finer. Slurry helps a little. It doesn’t seem to be specific to a brand or a steel.

Hope this helps.
 
How much of what kind of tape?

I’d suggest just adding more and more tape as a diagnostic procedure. See what the edge looks like at every grit as you add tape.

I just finished honing a problem child razor, it would not take an edge with 1 layer of 1mil Kapton at 4k.Shiny lines and teeth, poor HHT.
With 2 layers of 1 mil Kapton, it took an edge up to the Shapton 8k HC and the edge held up for a 2-pass shave, and looked decent afterwards
So I refreshed the edge for final finishing on a Shapton 10k HR and the artifacts and poor HHT returned. I tried koma slurry (to work on that apex a bit) then tomo and finisher. That was better but I still had a shiny line in the middle with poor HHT.
I finished it with 1 layer of electrical and 1 layer of Kapton and got a straight even, edge and good HHT

I think, but do not know, that the temper at the apex isn’t right, I’ve seen this behavior on several razors and it gets worse as the grit gets finer. Slurry helps a little. It doesn’t seem to be specific to a brand or a steel.

Hope this helps.
Thanks. I will do some more testing. Since this was a factory new razor, and because I got two identical, I just found it strange.
The grind is also quite off. On one side I get a nice and even bevel. While on the other side part of the bevel is quite tall an uneven. Getting the edge centered is tricky. Seems like one side needs to be raised a little with tape.
Slurry on a coticule seems to help after some more steel removal with a coarser stone.
The razor came with a smile. It needed allot of work to sit right on the stone.
 
Shave report.
Same result. The edge failed during the shave.
Maybe I need to ask for a refund. This looks really bad to my eyes..

20230203_074713.jpg
 

Legion

Staff member
Shave report.
Same result. The edge failed during the shave.
Maybe I need to ask for a refund. This looks really bad to my eyes..

View attachment 1599427
Ah yes, but here is the Catch 22. Most places will not give you a refund if you have messed with the razor, which includes trying to hone it. But until you try to hone it, you don't know about any issues or flaws.

One of several reasons I don't buy new razors.
 
I would try to return in. They can't say user error when you got the other razor shaving fine. If they don't refund because you took it to the stones maybe ask for a replacement? Silver lining is 1 razor shaves with spare scales at the very least
 
  • Like
Reactions: JPO
I got two identical razors. One was fine and the other was problematic. I just think it slipped through quality control.
I have two identical Hart razors, from the same artisan. One is good, the other one is as you describe. It is just too hard and brittle to take and hold an edge. Why, i am not sure.
I have a few other dovo razor that are just fine. This razor is probably just an exception.
Some of the Hart razors used a cryogenic freezing after treatment. The cold can improve the hardness and durability of the edge. However, if overdone, it can make the edge brittle. I also have a similar issue with the "ice hardened" DE blades produced by Timor and sold under various brands including Van der Hagen. I find the edges to be harsh.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JPO
I have a Robeson with nothing visually obvious wrong with it yet it will not take an apex. It just flakes away in long strips. It's probably the only bad Robeson in existence and therefore priceless but it is very annoying.. Another notable one for me is a butcher diamond edge. Has the same issue and it had no signs of abuse.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JPO
It might have been overheated at the heat treat, no saving that.

If they don't take it back and it really is just brittle hard there is a chance you could temper it back in an oven.
 
It might have been overheated at the heat treat, no saving that.

If they don't take it back and it really is just brittle hard there is a chance you could temper it back in an oven.
Now I am finished digging for good steel. I'm am not even able to generate a burr if I try. The steel just crumbles.
 
Top Bottom