New & need advice

[WireBrush]

Hey fellas!

New here and new to using an open razor.

Throughout my teens & 20's I'd regularly allow a thick beard to grow (partly because girls seemed to like it & partly because I had a bit or acne that would be irritated if I shaved).

Now that I've turned 30 and my skin has cleared up I'd quite like the option of having a nice traditional shave. So, I bought myself some kit... Taylors of Old Bond Street Cedarwood cream, natural scentless shave oil, badger brush, strop and an open razor, of course.

Being new to this method I didn't want to spend a huge amount on a razor so opted for a mid range piece - a Red Oak Titan with gold detail Red Oak & Gold-Tone Straight Razor 13/16" | In stock! | Titan - https://www.trendhim.co.uk/red-oak-gold-straight-razor-13-16-p.html?gclid=CjwKCAiAjp6BBhAIEiwAkO9WujdTn9e3Ps6auVxPIlq-xczjd8ygpUT1aMtoDZdnPk99q0C2y3XRsxoCtiAQAvD_BwE

This is apparently "shave ready" so I just gave it 20-30 strokes across the strop. It would easily cut through paper with no effort or pressure. I spent about an hour in a hot bath and massaged oil into my face. Made a good wet lather with the cream and let it soak in for 10 minutes (not letting it dry).

I commenced shaving at lots of different angles, pressures & speeds but I just cannot get a close shave! No matter what I do there's always a sandpaper-like stubble left.

I'd appreciate some advice on how to get a perfectly smooth shave with an open razor for a guy with rather thick, wiry facial hair. I love the idea of a traditional shave because there's no disposable plastic involved and I don't want to give big companies like Gillette any money. Plus, I'm a traditional kinda guy.

Anyway, some tips would be great from guys with hair like a wire brush.

Cheers

 

[Kaldane]

Welcome to B&B.

Sounds like a reasonable set up - I have the Titan with the same blade but the cheaper scales as part of a growing family of others, and TOBS Cedarwood is one I like to keep around. I have variable hair - from a fine down on the upper cheeks to something that might have fallen out of a 13 amp cable from the corners of my mouth to the chin, and with a grain that changes direction by 90 degrees above and below the jaw line.

"Shave ready" seems to be an advertising slogan most of the time. From what I remember my Titan wasn't bad when it arrived, but there's a lot of variation in what people mean when they say that. I'd be more trusting of it from a razor specialist than a general retail site, but the adage here is to only believe it when someone who uses a straight razor on a daily basis says it. Treetopping (cutting growing hairs at a slight distance from the skin) usually works for me as an indication of sharpness - I wouldn't use paper as a test for a razor : it's not as good at showing the sort of difference in sharpness that can be critical for a razor, and it can mess up the edge.

Technique is going to come down to patience. You've made a good start if you didn't lop anything off, but it'll be a number of shaves (coming in around 30, but maybe not getting properly "there" until more than 100) before things start to fall into place. Basic rules are as close to no pressure as possible, and with the spine about a spine's width from the skin (a lot of places tell you "30 degrees" - that would be overdoing it for me). Stretching the skin is also particularly important with a straight razor.

Definitely worth looking through the straight razor forums here - and if I ramble on much more I'll just end up repeating the good stuff that's there.

Welcome to the world of straight razor shaving - it's a great way to change what used to be a chore with something electric or disposable into a pleasure.

 

[Old Hippie]

I'm not sure I have much to contribute, but I may have an insight to offer. It's my experience -- with a different style of razor and shaving different real estate, but it's something I've noticed as a newbie myself. At the moment I'm 19 shaves in, shaving my head with a shavette (both 1/2 DE and AC).

What I have noticed so far is that the razors do not cut off great hunks of hair the way the exact same blade in a safety razor would do. It's slower, with less pressure and because there's no comb or bar leading the edge across the face, less stretching from the razor. That matters less to me; my scalp skin is pretty tight and actually except for a couple places I can't stretch it more than it is.

I'll leave that there without elaborating too much, the point being that I've simply resigned myself to it needing more, and more careful, passes. When I can do that without mentally comparing the speed and closeness of the shave to, say, the RazoRock Wunderbar slant which can remove hair from across the room I can relax and enjoy my time in the Shave Cave.

That helps me remember that it's a journey and you gotta take all the steps if yer gonna get anywhere.

O.H.

 

[Slash McCoy]

Well, a Titan is not exactly a mid-range razor. More like the upper end of the lower range. Notice the pocketknife style scales, your biggest and most obvious tip-off. You are being overcharged a bit, IMHO but really, a mid-range razor starts at around $110 U.S. these days and it looks and behaves like a razor and not a knife.

The Titan brand has plenty of fans, though. It's made from steel that is anywhere between pretty good to very good, depending on the model, because they use four different alloys. I dislike them myself for the heavy and awkward scales, and the large bevel angle.

If a razor is truly shave ready, then it should treetop at least a little bit, at 1/4" above the forearm skin.

Even if your razor is magical mystery sharp, you are not going to get perfect shaves for a while. THat's okay. Don't push for the closest possible shave. You will pay for your impertinence. Concentrate on simply surviving unscathed. Closeness will come, later.

Be sure you know which direction your whiskers grow, on every part of your face. This is because your shaving direction will be aligned according to the direction of growth. Initially, only go WTG, or With The Grain. Do two complete WTG passes. Lather and shave, then lather and shave, and that is two WTG passes. Concentrate on minimal blood loss and irritation. The first pass only reduces your beard. The second pass is the cleanup pass. Stretch the skin. Pull it "upstream" against the grain, so more of the whisker is pushed out there for cutting, and the whisker is standing up better. Stretching reduces cuts and irritation. Keep your shave angle low. A good standard shave angle is found by laying the razor flat against your cheek and then rotating the spine outward from the face, so that the gap between spine and face equals one spine thickness. Very dull razors will require a bigger shave angle, about a spine and a half. More than that and you are SCRAPING, not shaving, and asking for problems. An extremely sharp razor will require a smaller shave angle, maybe a half spine thickness, or maybe almost dragging the spine on the face. Pressure against the face should be light. Think of it as scooping lather from your face, not hunting and massacreing whiskers. The razor stroke needs to be done with a little authority, though, especially with the typical internet level of "shave readiness".

Keep working at it. If your razor is not sharp enough, send it out to either a member of this (or any other) straight razor forum for honing, or someone recommended by one or more members in good standing. Do not trust someone outside the community with honing your razor because he (or she) will positively not have a clue. There is sharp, and there is sharrrrrrrrrrrrrrppp! Additionally, there are other more subtle qualities in a good edge that someone who sharpens sushi knives and plane irons sharp enough to bring tears of joy, will not understand, if he is not part of this thing of ours.

Test your razor. If it is not up to standard, send it out. You will be glad you did.

After a couple dozen successful shaves with 2x WTG, add a third pass. XTG is cross the grain, ATG Against The Grain. Try WTG - WTG - XTG a few times, then try WTG - XTG - ATG. Don't push it. Don't rush it. By the time you are 100 shaves in, you should be able to finish with ATG and get a very very good shave indeed.

Myself, I keep my razors exceptionally sharp, and I get a shave that is quite good enough for me with a single pass. Mostly it is WTG but my edges are sharp enough that where it is mroe convenient to do so I can go ATG with no ill effect. BBS is NOT necessary! Do not think for a minute that a perfect shave is mandatory. Your standard should be more like SAS (Socially Acceptable Shave) or at most DFS (Darn Fine Shave). If you insist on BBS every day, you will pay for it, at least for the first year or two of your shave journey.

Here is shaving with a sharp razor.
More Gold Dollar Stunt Shaving! Shaving several weeks growth with a Gold Dollar #66 Straight Razor! - YouTube

 

[rbscebu]

@WireBrush, I have a matching seven-day set of Titan VG10-HZ T.H.63 straight razors, as well as 39 other SR's. Like almost all SR manufacturers, Titan do not finish their blades to shave-ready. You must rely upon the vendor to further hone the SR and Trendhim do not.

​

You will first have to get your SR's edge to be sharp enough to properly shave. This can be done by yourself (if you have the time to learn) or you send it out to someone who knows.

Titan make very good SR's for the price, although what you paid for the VG10-HZ is a bit on the high side. I don't think that @Slash McCoy has shaved with one, let alone physically held one. Once properly honed, the Titan VG10-HZ T.H.63 with good technique can provide you with a great shaving experience. Are there better SR's? Yes, but there are also many that are not. I have found that high(er) price does not necessarily mean a better shaving SR.

The VG10-HZ T.H.63 is reviewed here:
Titan VG10-HZ - https://www.badgerandblade.com/forum/reviews/titan-vg10-hz.211718/

 

[WireBrush]

Thank you very much for the replies. You have reassured me that it's not just my coarse hair.

I think I'm being quite impatient and the razor isn't as sharp as it could be. And yes, I did overpay for it which is why I've sent it back for a refund (plus the scale is just too damn thick and awkward to use comfortably).

I've now purchased what I think might be a better quality razor to use. It's also from a more reputable, specialist retailer here in England that hone & prepare each razor.

It's a Thiers-Issard 'Spartacus' 5/8 with Rams Horn scale. I think it looks much nicer & more elegant than the Titan.

TI 5/8 Rams Horn Straight Razor|The Invisible Edge

This TI 5/8 razor has a mirror polished blade with a black Spartacus mark, a hand worked spine with the historic special triangle design and ram's horn scales

www.theinvisibleedge.co.uk

I shall persevere with this new pursuit. If there's one thing I've taken away from your advice it's that I must have patience.

Thanks again for the warm welcome. I might take some pictures over the next several months to show my progress.

 

[rbscebu]

That TI razor should be better for you to develop your technique on.

If you are trying to learn SR shaving from YouTube videos, just remember that the 30° angle many mention is not the best advice. Shave with the razor's spine only about a spine-width or less from the skin (about 15°).

The main thing is to have patience and stick with it. Learn from each shave. Once you get to about 30 SR shaves, you will be hooked and probably never return to your old ways of shaving.

 

[Straight up]

Hey WireBrush, welcome to the world of straight shaving. Once you master the art you'll never look back.

That's a stunning first razor (I love TI) and don't worry it will last a life time, so the price works out to be very economical. So long as it is shave ready (tree tops and hanging hair tests) you should be right to go. With a sharp razor your hair type won't really matter, but you'll need to understand the growth direction to work out which way is WTG, WTG, XTG.

The first shave you do will be sub-par, especially on the chin. You have been given some good advice so far, so listen to the voice of experience. Aim for WTG shaves to start building a muscle memory and becoming familiar with the razors nuances. Don't expect BBS shaves straight off the bat. My 19 year old son is going through the same journey; now 11 months in. Like all of us, his first shaves end in some blood and so-so shaves. But with time he's now shaving cut-free and not resorting to a cartridge to finish up.

I think your underlying motivations will carry you through the initial learning phase, they did for me. Enjoy the journey.

 

[Slash McCoy]

@WireBrush, I have a matching seven-day set of Titan VG10-HZ T.H.63 straight razors, as well as 39 other SR's. Like almost all SR manufacturers, Titan do not finish their blades to shave-ready. You must rely upon the vendor to further hone the SR and Trendhim do not.

View attachment 1222569View attachment 1222570​

You will first have to get your SR's edge to be sharp enough to properly shave. This can be done by yourself (if you have the time to learn) or you send it out to someone who knows.

Titan make very good SR's for the price, although what you paid for the VG10-HZ is a bit on the high side. I don't think that @Slash McCoy has shaved with one, let alone physically held one. Once properly honed, the Titan VG10-HZ T.H.63 with good technique can provide you with a great shaving experience. Are there better SR's? Yes, but there are also many that are not. I have found that high(er) price does not necessarily mean a better shaving SR.

The VG10-HZ T.H.63 is reviewed here:
Titan VG10-HZ - https://www.badgerandblade.com/forum/reviews/titan-vg10-hz.211718/

@WireBrush, I have a matching seven-day set of Titan VG10-HZ T.H.63 straight razors, as well as 39 other SR's. Like almost all SR manufacturers, Titan do not finish their blades to shave-ready. You must rely upon the vendor to further hone the SR and Trendhim do not.

View attachment 1222569View attachment 1222570​

You will first have to get your SR's edge to be sharp enough to properly shave. This can be done by yourself (if you have the time to learn) or you send it out to someone who knows.

Titan make very good SR's for the price, although what you paid for the VG10-HZ is a bit on the high side. I don't think that @Slash McCoy has shaved with one, let alone physically held one. Once properly honed, the Titan VG10-HZ T.H.63 with good technique can provide you with a great shaving experience. Are there better SR's? Yes, but there are also many that are not. I have found that high(er) price does not necessarily mean a better shaving SR.

The VG10-HZ T.H.63 is reviewed here:
Titan VG10-HZ - https://www.badgerandblade.com/forum/reviews/titan-vg10-hz.211718/

LOL Okay fair is fair. True, I have not actually shaved with one, only gone by the known characteristics of the brand. So I will now take one for the team and take a walk on the wild side. I just ordered three Titans, one each in VG10HZ, ACRM-2, and ACRO steel. I honestly don't think I will be disappointed at all in the steel. I am sure it is great. My contention is that geometry is still important no matter what the steel. Yes, obviously they will shave. I am going to try them and decide HOW WELL they will shave. There will be another thread on this.

 

[Slash McCoy]

Thank you very much for the replies. You have reassured me that it's not just my coarse hair.

I think I'm being quite impatient and the razor isn't as sharp as it could be. And yes, I did overpay for it which is why I've sent it back for a refund (plus the scale is just too damn thick and awkward to use comfortably).

I've now purchased what I think might be a better quality razor to use. It's also from a more reputable, specialist retailer here in England that hone & prepare each razor.

It's a Thiers-Issard 'Spartacus' 5/8 with Rams Horn scale. I think it looks much nicer & more elegant than the Titan.

TI 5/8 Rams Horn Straight Razor|The Invisible Edge

This TI 5/8 razor has a mirror polished blade with a black Spartacus mark, a hand worked spine with the historic special triangle design and ram's horn scales

www.theinvisibleedge.co.uk

I shall persevere with this new pursuit. If there's one thing I've taken away from your advice it's that I must have patience.

Thanks again for the warm welcome. I might take some pictures over the next several months to show my progress.

Wow now you're cooking with gas! That's a very nice razor. Be sure and give it a sharpness test, for a baseline, before shaving.

 

[bluesman 7]

It would easily cut through paper with no effort or pressure.

Cringe.

Just a few cuts through paper causes visible damage at 100x to a razors edge. Paper has a fair amount of silica content.

 

[Tomo]

Thank you very much for the replies. You have reassured me that it's not just my coarse hair.

I think I'm being quite impatient and the razor isn't as sharp as it could be. And yes, I did overpay for it which is why I've sent it back for a refund (plus the scale is just too damn thick and awkward to use comfortably).

I've now purchased what I think might be a better quality razor to use. It's also from a more reputable, specialist retailer here in England that hone & prepare each razor.

It's a Thiers-Issard 'Spartacus' 5/8 with Rams Horn scale. I think it looks much nicer & more elegant than the Titan.

TI 5/8 Rams Horn Straight Razor|The Invisible Edge

This TI 5/8 razor has a mirror polished blade with a black Spartacus mark, a hand worked spine with the historic special triangle design and ram's horn scales

www.theinvisibleedge.co.uk

I shall persevere with this new pursuit. If there's one thing I've taken away from your advice it's that I must have patience.

Thanks again for the warm welcome. I might take some pictures over the next several months to show my progress.

Great advise so far. I have a TI and have also bought from The Invisible Edge. Invisible edge is a great outfit and they hone all their razors to shave ready before sending them out unless, like me, you ask them not to. I think that you are on the right track now.

The only thing that is missing from your kit is a method for keeping the blade sharp. I recommend that you do some research in The Method in the newbie compendium. This is a highly effective, easy to learn and low cost way to hone razors. Once you’ve got that down and know if SR shaving is for you, you have the option to slowly build your kit with more expensive natural stones and lapping plates.

 

[WireBrush]

Cringe.

Just a few cuts through paper causes visible damage at 100x to a razors edge. Paper has a fair amount of silica content.

Thanks for the advice. I guess I just assumed a SR is pretty much the same as a knife (watched a video on YT of a Japanese guy sharpening a kitchen knife).

I'm now realising they're completely different animals and thus need to be treated in different ways which makes sense because they're used for different purposes.

There's no way I'll be attempting any of my own honing on my new TI. I'll leave that to the experts until I can develop my skills

 

[Tomo]

Thanks for the advice. I guess I just assumed a SR is pretty much the same as a knife (watched a video on YT of a Japanese guy sharpening a kitchen knife).

I'm now realising they're completely different animals and thus need to be treated in different ways which makes sense because they're used for different purposes.

There's no way I'll be attempting any of my own honing on my new TI. I'll leave that to the experts until I can develop my skills

In many ways it’s easier than a knife. With a razor you have a built in guide. All you do is lay the razor flat on the hone. The thickness of the spine has been designed to set the bevel angle. Long term it’s totally impractical to SR shave without honing. It’s actually easier than you might think. Particularly if you use The Method to start.

 

[rbscebu]

@WireBrush, with your TI razor from TIE you should (hopefully) have a shave-ready SR. While waiting for it to arrive, I suggest that you consider adopting the diamond pasted balsa strop system to maintain that edge. A summary of that system is given here with full details given in the association thread:

How To Use a Pasted Balsa Strop

lol camo

www.badgerandblade.com

If you adopte the diamond pasted balsa strop system, you should never have to hone (or have honed) your TI razor again.

Remember, diamond pasted balsa strops do not make a bad edge sharp, they omly make a sharp edge sharper.

 

[Gaznix]

I’m also in the UK, I have my razor sharpened by the guys at Invisible Edge it’s a great service albeit quite expensive. Your razor will come genuinely shave ready from them, I recommended my neighbour to them and he ordered a Dovo similar to mine and it arrived promptly and honed ready to go.
I’m sure Slash with agree, if you want to sharpen yourself start on lapping film before spending a load on stones, I still use film when touching up plus 3 balsa strops. Eventually it needs doing properly hence sending it off to Invisible.
as previously mentioned, stick at it, it will come, I was impatient too but that won’t get you anywhere, don’t rush your shave and if times tight use your cartridge or DE or whatever you used to use. Less pressure the better.

 

[WireBrush]

In many ways it’s easier than a knife. With a razor you have a built in guide. All you do is lay the razor flat on the hone. The thickness of the spine has been designed to set the bevel angle. Long term it’s totally impractical to SR shave without honing. It’s actually easier than you might think. Particularly if you use The Method to start.

I think that may have been part of the issue I had with the Titan. The spine (and heel) was so thick that when it was laid flat on the stone the blade edge would sit too high. So it just wasn't sharpening and I didn't want to cause irreparable damage by using the wrong angle.

Being a carpenter by trade my stones are good quality and I'm familiar with sharpening tools. I just need to learn the particular technique for a SR so I'll definitely need to take a look at that Method.

But as rbscebu stated, my TI should be pretty well honed when it arrives so l'll hopefully just need to strop it with the diamond paste. I'll practice my honing on cheaper razors or it could get quite expensive

 

[Kaldane]

I think that may have been part of the issue I had with the Titan. The spine (and heel) was so thick that when it was laid flat on the stone the blade edge would sit too high. So it just wasn't sharpening and I didn't want to cause irreparable damage by using the wrong angle.

Being a carpenter by trade my stones are good quality and I'm familiar with sharpening tools. I just need to learn the particular technique for a SR so I'll definitely need to take a look at that Method.

But as rbscebu stated, my TI should be pretty well honed when it arrives so l'll hopefully just need to strop it with the diamond paste. I'll practice my honing on cheaper razors or it could get quite expensive

The Issard is a very different animal - that's getting into "nice razor" territory. What the others say about the scales on the Titans is absolutely true - I like having a razor with thicker scales, but that's partly because I have a bunch of others which don't. I've bought a few of those from The Invisible Edge, and they've always been properly shave ready - Adam knows what he's doing.

It's worth getting something cheap for honing practice - you'll also have the satisfaction of putting an edge on something unlikely when it all falls into place. I have a few sub-£20 things that I like using and which give a decent shave (after a bit of work).

If you're learning honing at the same time as straight razor shaving, you'll have a few "is it me or is it the edge?" days (it's probably both), but with the TI as a reference that should make that question easier to answer.

Looking forward to reading about the journey.

 

[PintoPlain]

A lot of good advise given here already. I would agree with using the diamond pasted balsa for maintaining your edge. You can pick up the acrylic from a couple of vendors in the UK. That's where I got mine as I couldn't find vendors selling the correct thickness in Ireland (pre brexit so there were no customs fees or VAT payable upon import).

You mention your stones are good quality. What grits do you have? A straight needs a finer grit than knives or tools. Of course you could probably shave off a properly set bevel, but I can guarantee it will be uncomfortable. Especially if you are just starting out.

I can't stress how important it is to have patience. You will probably notice rapid improvement between your first 10 to 15 shaves, but then plateau. Keep at it because you are still improving, just not noticing the incremental improvements.

 

[Invicta]

Welcome to B&B.
Technique takes a little time to learn so don't be in a rush for good results. I am also sceptical of the shave ready claims. You could try some lapping film to improve the edge. The straight razor section has some useful advice; Hones/Honing