I'm not going back to carts until they add that all important 5th coating...UNOBTAINIUM! Until then, I am happy with my DE's and SE's.
New Mach 3 commercial
- Thread starter Foyle
- Start date
Well, the blades last 3 times as long.
Given that they use a barely pubescent 15 year old as their study case:
http://www.gillette.com/en/us/mens-style/how-to-shave.aspx
Given that they use a barely pubescent 15 year old as their study case:
http://www.gillette.com/en/us/mens-style/how-to-shave.aspx
I can't seem to find a link to the commercial. For anybody who's interested, below is a snip from their website that shows us what coatings are being used. Notice the "diamond-like" carbon.Sounds like something related to pleather?
Not to side with Gillette, but Diamond-Like Carbon is a real coating and it's good stuff. It's used often in the knife industry as a blade coating, though more to prevent corrosion than promote edge retention since you grind through it when you sharpen the knife.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diamond-like_carbon
I'd really like to see what kind of DE blades Gillette could come up with if they spent the kind of money they throw at multi-blade carts on DE development.
It might be this old thing, from http://www.pgdermatology.com/downloads/documents/Gillette_WhitePaper.pdf dated 2009:
That was originally about fusion blades, but they could presumably apply the same technology to any blade. Using DLC for hardness seems to be http://www.google.com/patents/US5142785 from 1992. In 1994 http://www.google.com/patents/US5295305 seems to cover Gillette's use of Niobium and other binding agents between coatings. I think that first patent has expired and the next will expire soon, so we might start to see other blade companies using DLC coatings. Of course, those blades might cost more.
I can't seem to find a link to the commercial. For anybody who's interested, below is a snip from their website that shows us what coatings are being used. Notice the "diamond-like" carbon.
View attachment 270372
That matches up with the older diagram above.
According to the patents two of the layers - Cr and Nb - seem to act like primer coating for the next layer up, rather than stand-alone coatings. "Antifriction telomer" is a fancier way of saying PTFE or Teflon - close enough for marketing, anyway. DLC is supposed to be an improvement over the platinum coatings we all know, but I do not know how much better it might be. Also I am not sure where they got the 250-angstrom tip radius: most of the Gillette blade patents talk about "tip radius less than about 1000 angstroms".
Anyway I think it is safe to say that Gillette has back-ported the Fusion coatings to the Mach3. I wonder if that is a new step, though, or if they upgraded the Mach3 blades some time ago? And when can we test some Astra XP blades with this treatment?
Has anyone seen Gillette advertising "amorphous diamond" coatings? They have a 2008 patent for that technology, which does not need an interlayer and so could presumably be made with a smaller tip radius: http://www.google.com/patents/US5799549.
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im a little confused...(go figure) they are both gillette so,, its just a handle with a cart on the end of it. how can one be more popular than another.. i mean,, i know one can but,, why not just make the popular blades that fit the popular handle?
who cares what you call the handle? mach or fusion.. as long as the blades being sold for it are the best, popular choice?
this is weird.
fusions are not totally useless either. you can tape your toothbrush to it and WHAM!!! its now an electric toothbrush!
who cares what you call the handle? mach or fusion.. as long as the blades being sold for it are the best, popular choice?
this is weird.
fusions are not totally useless either. you can tape your toothbrush to it and WHAM!!! its now an electric toothbrush!
The commercial I saw for the first time last night claimed that M3's lasted twice as long as disposables. Yeah, at 4-5 times the price.
A year or two before Tiger Woods' marriage blew up on him, Gillette announced the signing of Tiger, Roger Federer, and a Yankee, either Jeter or Rodriguez, to promote a new "premium" line of men's grooming products. Saw Tiger in a golf tournament this past Monday with some stubble on his chin, which is how I've seen him more often than not in the past 2-3 years. Gillette must have had some good weasel words in that contract to get out of it after Thanksgiving, 2009.
Now, instead of trying to promote "premium" products, they're going after a market in these economic times that people can better afford, like Mach 3's instead of Fusions.
A year or two before Tiger Woods' marriage blew up on him, Gillette announced the signing of Tiger, Roger Federer, and a Yankee, either Jeter or Rodriguez, to promote a new "premium" line of men's grooming products. Saw Tiger in a golf tournament this past Monday with some stubble on his chin, which is how I've seen him more often than not in the past 2-3 years. Gillette must have had some good weasel words in that contract to get out of it after Thanksgiving, 2009.
Now, instead of trying to promote "premium" products, they're going after a market in these economic times that people can better afford, like Mach 3's instead of Fusions.
I noticed in Costco that they had more Mach3's than Fusions. I think they're backing off the Fusion as the price-point was a mistake and let other, cheaper brands make inroads into their market, including the increased interest in DEs. In order to get their customers back they switched back leading with the Mach3, and the Fusion is aimed at the ultra hip and trendy with that ridiculous trimmer thing.
According to the news from the time, they merely didn't renew the contract with him and the other athletes...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/dec/24/tiger-woods-dropped-by-gillette
Sounds like a very good business move which may help them make more money in tough economic times. Isn't that what corporations are supposed to do?
Haven't seen this commercial yet but have seen that annoying andre 3000 fusion trimmer commercial tons of times.
No worries, man. You can't offend me unless you insult my cat.
In all seriousness. I had no idea such a coating existed. "Diamond-like" rolls off the tongue about as smooth as Ford Pinto. But thank you for your insight. It's been educational.
I agree "Diamond like" does SOUND like some marketing BS. I saw the commercial during a college football game this weekend and honestly thought an old commercial had been accidentally broadcast. It's the first time I've ever seen Gillette advertise anything but the latest and greatest.
I saw the commercial during a college football game this weekend and honestly thought an old commercial had been accidentally broadcast. It's the first time I've ever seen Gillette advertise anything but the latest and greatest.
Nope. LOTS of money goes into DLC research for many years in many industries. In addition to it being crazy-hard, diamond has the amazing property of being one of the best heat conductors while at the same time being one of the best electrical insulators. Usually you get one or the other. DLC is essentially diamond that you can apply in film-mode....computer chip packaging folks love the stuff. For example:https://www.google.com/search?q=DLC+heat+transfer+chip+packaging
Sorry, just had to add my little bit; I'm a thin-films kinda guy.
+1
I hope they will take it up a notch and introduce the Guard in the western world but I can't imagine they will ever do that.
P&G has a poster.pdf entitled, "Innovations in Modern Blade and Razor Technology", in which they state that the Gillette Fusion is beyond scalpel sharp. I'll take their word for it. Scalpel sharp generally means the scalpel is apt to dull more quickly than so-called razor sharp. So, they have added a DLC layer over the stainless steel "substrate" (i.e., stainless is now just a layer under some carbon fluoride). This sort of reminds me of the article that came out back in the 30s that claimed Gillette blades were so sharp that the edges of their blades were invisible because they would not reflect a single photon (I'll take their word for it). Unfortunately, these claims tend to sound a bit bombastic. What next?--proprietary dmso-containing beard conditioner to help dissolve keratin from the root up?
I can't seem to find a link to the commercial. For anybody who's interested, below is a snip from their website that shows us what coatings are being used. Notice the "diamond-like" carbon.
View attachment 270372
This add just ran in the recent New Yorker magazine. My immediate thoughts were "*** - Why is Gillette marketing this "downgrade" to the "New Yorker" demographic?"
My suspicion is that my personal experience is very common. I used M3's for years and I was regularly able to buy heavily discounted packs from "National Wholesale Liquidators" - a chain of retail outlets in the NY area. I'm pretty sure that I regularly bought 4 packs for about $2. When Gillette came out with the Fusion, the supply of discounted M3's eventually dried up AND NWL also went out of business. I bought into the Fusion system even though I felt the price point was shamelessly inflated. I started looking for lower cost alternatives including a horrid multiblade "M5" system from Personna. On a guitar forum I frequent there was a thread about shaving which mentioned both the option of DE shaving AND the shaving forums. I haven't used a cart or disposable for 18 months. Not even when traveling.
While the number of men reverting to DE shaving may be negligible, It seems pretty clear that even men who can afford the product are saying NO to the ridiculous cost of the Fusion system. In the history of ever increasing number of blades crammed onto a cartridge, this may represent where Gillette has finally overreached.
I've seen this commercial several times now. I take it as a sign of progress that Gillette is backing off the Fusion.
I took a look at a scalpel. It has a pretty steep bevel angle, and overall I wasn't too impressed with its edge compared to any razor or staright I've looked at.
http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/292585-Sharp-as-a-scalpel?highlight=scalpel
KAI has PINK technology with a titanium overlay:
What's really cool about the KAI blades is the blue color of the edge. Here's a brandy new one (with fazzy teflon coating:
After 4 shaves:
6 shaves:
11 shaves:
Pics form this thread here
What's really cool about the KAI blades is the blue color of the edge. Here's a brandy new one (with fazzy teflon coating:
After 4 shaves:
6 shaves:
11 shaves:
Pics form this thread here
