What's new

NEW LC & SC history

Forgive me for beating a dead horse, but I’m a history buff. I have tried reading all of the related threads on this topic, but some are older than others, and there seems to be a fair amount of healthy disagreement.

So. Is there a level of detail that most everyone can agree on, tegarding NEW razor chronology, before the fight starts? I would appreciate any confirmation, clarification, and/or contradiction:

1. What we now call the Long Comb (NEW LC) was designed and put in production before the Short Comb (NEW SC)?

2. Further, the SC came out some time after the Gillette-Autostrop merger?

3. Further still, the SC appears to have come out after 1932/33, based on the patent reissued stamping?

4. There was an undetermined period of time where both LC & SC were hitting the shelves; but never as a customer option, it was just an internal parts/inventory thing?

But then, if I understand correctly, the debate begins in earnest. Either:

1. The SC replaced the LC, perhaps sometime circa 1936, but Gillette had a lot of already-made LC parts to use up, which took a while.

OR

2. Gillette Boston plant kept cranking out LC parts until the end (1939/40); while former Autostrop plants elsewhere got newer tooling and cranked out SC parts instead (1933 to 1939/40).

*3. What seems to NOT be an option, is that they were made simultaneously in the same plant. No factory shuts down to change tooling back and forth to make two different versions of the same part, unless they make different, marketed, customer options (hard tops one week, convertibles the next week).

Has anyone been able to tip the scales one way or the other?
 
Forgive me for beating a dead horse, but I’m a history buff. I have tried reading all of the related threads on this topic, but some are older than others, and there seems to be a fair amount of healthy disagreement.

So. Is there a level of detail that most everyone can agree on, tegarding NEW razor chronology, before the fight starts? I would appreciate any confirmation, clarification, and/or contradiction:

1. What we now call the Long Comb (NEW LC) was designed and put in production before the Short Comb (NEW SC)?

2. Further, the SC came out some time after the Gillette-Autostrop merger?

3. Further still, the SC appears to have come out after 1932/33, based on the patent reissued stamping?

4. There was an undetermined period of time where both LC & SC were hitting the shelves; but never as a customer option, it was just an internal parts/inventory thing?

But then, if I understand correctly, the debate begins in earnest. Either:

1. The SC replaced the LC, perhaps sometime circa 1936, but Gillette had a lot of already-made LC parts to use up, which took a while.

OR

2. Gillette Boston plant kept cranking out LC parts until the end (1939/40); while former Autostrop plants elsewhere got newer tooling and cranked out SC parts instead (1933 to 1939/40).

*3. What seems to NOT be an option, is that they were made simultaneously in the same plant. No factory shuts down to change tooling back and forth to make two different versions of the same part, unless they make different, marketed, customer options (hard tops one week, convertibles the next week).

Has anyone been able to tip the scales one way or the other?
I suppose an option 4. Might be that the former Autostrop factories, which had newer equipment, began producing the SC first; then at some later date the old Gillette plant(s) were upgraded, and began producing the SC.
 
In my understanding:
Gillette came out with the New (LC) and New Deluxe in 1929.
After the merger the New LC line stopped and the Goodwill entered production (which was also called New if not sold in the Goodwill box).
My guess is, that Gillettes pending patents were still not granted, so the only useable patents were Gaismans.
Sometime later, maybe after Gillettes patents were granted, the New LC, Deluxe and SC (re)entered production.
My theory is that Gillette plants produced New Deluxes and LC-s while Autostrop plants the SC.
1. Krummholz mentions an exhibit of Gillette Goodwill heads and the SC is labeled as an Autostrop product.
2. There was seemingly no LC production in South America (Autostrop factories), while there was no SC in England (Gillette) the only countries with both designs present were the US and Canada (Gillette and Autostrop factories).
 
This all begs the question of why there seem to be so many more LC in the vintage market today than SC.

Did production drop due to the later stages of the Depression? Which would be the most logical if the SC replaced the LC later in the ‘30s.

Or was the output of the former Autostrop factories just that much smaller than Big Boston? Which would make sense if the two models were geographical instead of chronological.
 
In my understanding:
Gillette came out with the New (LC) and New Deluxe in 1929.
After the merger the New LC line stopped and the Goodwill entered production (which was also called New if not sold in the Goodwill box).
My guess is, that Gillettes pending patents were still not granted, so the only useable patents were Gaismans.
Sometime later, maybe after Gillettes patents were granted, the New LC, Deluxe and SC (re)entered production.
My theory is that Gillette plants produced New Deluxes and LC-s while Autostrop plants the SC.
1. Krummholz mentions an exhibit of Gillette Goodwill heads and the SC is labeled as an Autostrop product.
2. There was seemingly no LC production in South America (Autostrop factories), while there was no SC in England (Gillette) the only countries with both designs present were the US and Canada (Gillette and Autostrop factories).
Thank you!
 
This all begs the question of why there seem to be so many more LC in the vintage market today than SC.

Did production drop due to the later stages of the Depression? Which would be the most logical if the SC replaced the LC later in the ‘30s.

Or was the output of the former Autostrop factories just that much smaller than Big Boston? Which would make sense if the two models were geographical instead of chronological.
In my understanding:
Gillette came out with the New (LC) and New Deluxe in 1929.
After the merger the New LC line stopped and the Goodwill entered production (which was also called New if not sold in the Goodwill box).
My guess is, that Gillettes pending patents were still not granted, so the only useable patents were Gaismans.
Sometime later, maybe after Gillettes patents were granted, the New LC, Deluxe and SC (re)entered production.
My theory is that Gillette plants produced New Deluxes and LC-s while Autostrop plants the SC.
1. Krummholz mentions an exhibit of Gillette Goodwill heads and the SC is labeled as an Autostrop product.
2. There was seemingly no LC production in South America (Autostrop factories), while there was no SC in England (Gillette) the only countries with both designs present were the US and Canada (Gillette and Autostrop factories).
Makes sense!
 
After the merger the AutoStrop management basically took over Gillette, so maybe they had a big plan.
Different Gillette factories took noticeably different routes (Germany, US/Canada, UK, Soth America), begs the question why.
Gillette factories were producing two things, DE blades and razors to fit those blades, AutoStrop was producing SE and DE blades, SE and DE razors.
If you compare the number of surviving Valet and Probak razors, the later seem to be unicorns, so seemingly AutStrop was not keen on producing DE razor, but why should they when their blade was designed to be used with the Gillette razor which was already available by the millions.
AutoStrop did use Zamak casting for their DE razors, so the SC production for sure needed retooling.
And so on.
 

nemo

Lunatic Fringe
Staff member
I'm still trying to figure out the Otto Roth story and Gillette takeover by Gaisman during that period when Gillette stocks tanked.

Tough period to figure out.
 
I'm still trying to figure out the Otto Roth story and Gillette takeover by Gaisman during that period when Gillette stocks tanked.

Tough period to figure out.
Same here! My NEW LC is an Otto Roth -strikethrough-, and I would love to narrow down a timeframe more than just “1930s”.
 
Otto Roth (and many other brands) was used to eliminate Gillettes competition in the lower priced blade market. All Otto Roth razors carry the patents granted in 1932 and Gillette /Otto Roth was involved in an anti trust case in 1935. Without knowing the details of that case (it could be that Gillette had to split from Otto Roth, this would explain the striked through stamp, but is just a speculation on my side) I assume Otto Roth marked News were marketed at least between those years, maybe later, but not earlier.
 
Otto Roth (and many other brands) was used to eliminate Gillettes competition in the lower priced blade market. All Otto Roth razors carry the patents granted in 1932 and Gillette /Otto Roth was involved in an anti trust case in 1935. Without knowing the details of that case (it could be that Gillette had to split from Otto Roth, this would explain the striked through stamp, but is just a speculation on my side) I assume Otto Roth marked News were marketed at least between those years, maybe later, but not earlier.
Thank you. I knew about the patent date, but did not know about the anti-trust case in 1935. That would certainly explain why they went tothe expense of stamping out Otto Roth Inc. and restamping with Gillette, as opposed to just using up old inventory.
 
I don't think anyone living has first-hand accurate info on the question. The people who knew the answers are deceased.

It's my understanding the Gillette NEW LC came out circa 1929, and the Gillette NEW SC came out circa 1938 as a replacement. The Gillette NEW SC ceased production in circa 1941 when America entered WW2.
 
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