New Kamisori owner - how do I sharpen this beauty? (Oddly shaped toe, atypical blade)

[xmacro]

9 years since my last post. It's been awhile, BBers!

Background: DE shaving for the 10+ years I've been gone, finally took the final step into straights. Totally new to honing, but wanted to start out with style so I got a kamisori with a nice damascus on it - a Shigeki Tanaka from Japan (this baby is getting taped!).

Now, I've seen six guns' honing videos, but he uses an X stroke. I took one look at this, and I'm not 100% that an X stroke is appropriate. Can anyone else chime in?

As far as I can tell, the chip on the toe is intentional, since the stock photo had a similar chip as well.

First pic is stock photo to show the toe slant is intentional, second pic is mine. It's hard to make out, but the slant isn't actually sharpened, more like it's been snapped off cleanly.

 

[cugel]

A kamisori, imho, is a tough first hone. That looks like a really nice one so I would consider sending it out to a pro. My approach is a bit unconventional for kamisori relative to western style blades: 8k naniwa to set the bevel. I use pressure too (a lot to start) but keep that bevel even. I use a ~5:1 ratio for the wedge side : hollow side. I stay on the 8k until it is stupid keen. Should pass all the tests etc. After that it's your choice. GSsixgun is the method that I sort of use. Half x strokes are fine but end on x strokes. I don't have good luck with circles on a kamisori, dont know why.

 

[global_dev]

The point is likely just angled to remove the sharp point for comfort and ease of use.

We need more info to assist, why do you feel an “x” stroke is inappropriate? What are you gonna be honing on? Isn’t it already sharp to shave?

beauty though!

 

[stone and strop]

I would soften the transition of the "clip" where it meets the rest of the edge.
It will surely cause problems on your strop if you don't. Round it off a bit.

 

[xmacro]

> We need more info to assist, why do you feel an “x” stroke is inappropriate? What are you gonna be honing on? Isn’t it already sharp to shave?

I'm pretty new to honing and straights, so I wasn't really sure if an X would round off the chip and if that was desireable or not.

Gonna be honing on a Naniwa professional 1k and 5k; still gotta pick up some lapping paper for finishing on. Razor is currently kinda sharp, but can't tree top cut just yet, just pushes the arm hairs around

 

[global_dev]

wasn't really sure if an X would round off the chip

“X” is cross hone directional in X/Y plane. Unless you enter the Z plane you shouldn’t see any rounding on flat hones.

 

[global_dev]

Gonna be honing on a Naniwa professional 1k and 5k; still gotta pick up some lapping paper for finishing on. Razor is currently kinda sharp, but can't tree top cut just yet, just pushes the arm hairs around

If this razor is special to you or you might feel bad about a certain amount of honewear, i might learn about honing on a sub $50 razor (vintage or Chinese with good geometry)

 

[xmacro]

That's the plan
Picked up a $20 cheapo off Amazon, gonna play around with it (and maybe a few of my kitchen knives) until I get the feel for honing before attempting it on my new kamisori.
Would a straight honing direction be appropriate as well? What about a rolling X stroke like six guns uses?

 

[global_dev]

So here’s the thing. For me, every blade requires its own approach outside of the basics once you see how things are moving/progressing. I am sure i am not the only one; however you do seem some bend the razor a bit more towards their will than find common balance.

there are some good YT tuts on kami honing. With a shorter blade length of the kami, i might not using rolling so as to keep the edge straight. IMHO, while absolutely not necessary, i might get more exposure to honing razors and not knives. Whats a $20 cheapo off amazon? That sounds like it could be a pakistani (Usually RSOs) or oem chinese. Good Luck!

 

[xmacro]

Thanks, good to know that there's no "true" method; its kinda freeing in a way. Spent the better part of 2 hours playing around with knives and the cheapo, learned a lot and screwed up some bevels, just glad it wasn't on my kamisori
The cheapo is this, says "Zertone" on the blade: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0789F46B2/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[global_dev]

Manufacturer is yangjiang rentutu shaver industry & trade co, ltd.

Yangjiang RenRen Razor Products Co., Ltd - RenRen, straight razor, stainless steel - https://renrenrazorproducts.en.ecplaza.net out of China

looks ok I guess. They have a lot of razor stuff they make it seems for $3 in volume

 

[xmacro]

Update: done with at least the initial bevel setting. Whew what a bastard.

A kamisori, imho, is a tough first hone.

You weren't just whistling dixie, brother. Just spent 3 hours on the 1k alone, that was a *tough* bevel to set (probably because I babied it for at least an hour, went moderate for the second, then remembered slash recommended to make the bevel cry, and I was done inside an hour after that).
The ura was by far the worst, I used the marker test to gauge when it was done, and that sucker just needed tooons of metal to come off before the marker finally receded from the edge - and even after it did, subsequent marker tests always shaved off quickest on the sides with 3 laps, while the middle was kinda gone but not 100%, taking 6 to disappear. Very weird kamisori. The omote on the other hand, was whipped into shape extremely quickly.

Suuuuper happy I used tape; considering how long I was on that ura, I can only imagine the toothpick I'd have if I hadn't used some polyimide/kapton tape (supposedly 0.05mm thickness, thinnest I could find, to stay as close as possible to original angle)