New Idea--What do you all think?

[The Knize]

Now that the frag train is rolling again--that that did not hear and want to get on board, read the "how can we make the frag train better" thread and post your interest and PM me and blythbook the requested contact information--I had some other thoughts about would we could do that was interesting around here.

Here is one I have been trying to think through. I have some background in recreational wine tasting which may explain some of my thinking. It seems to me that there is not enough opportunity to sniff frags "blind." (An interesting thing to do, I have found out, is to put a bunch of frags into decants, say for the frag train!, without labeling them at the time, and then to try to come back and label them correctly by smell. Not as easy as one might think! So I was thinking, how could be do some blind sniffing and comparison.

What if ten of us more or less agreed to fill say 10 1 ml glass straws of a scent, and then sent each to a central person for redistribution of the straws to the other nine folks on a blind basis, so that basically each person would end up with ten straws labelled just with an individuals name or a number of which he/she knew for sure only what one scent was? Then we could exchange sniffing notes as posts to the B&B Cologne forum--folks could write up reviews and make guesses about what the scents were if they wanted to, maybe we would want some way of identifying spoilers for scents that folks really knew--and only after some time passed would the actual identity of the scents be revealed.

I have thought about this for a while, the biggest problem being how to keep the individuals contribution down to a reasonable level. However, if there were 10 participants, 10 ml of juice does not seem too painful. If we have more participants then more mls, but you get more back. We would want to keep the quality up. I am not sure how to police that. I suppose folks good contribute more than one scent at a time if they were feeling generous and/or wondered what folks would think of a particular scent.

I have access to 1.5 ml straws at about $5 for 100, if I recall correctly. I hate sending out multiple mailings of stuff to folks, but folks could throw in a few buck to defer mailing costs, especially if they need to be sent things more than once.

Keeping this open to broad participation might be somewhat difficult. I do not think I want to contribute 50 ml of particular juice to a sniffing event and get 50 1 ml testers back!

So any thoughts, suggestions, etc.? Many thanks, everyone!

 

[jdh1007]

Here's a thought...

Get a base of people who would be interested, order your testers based on that # and from the base you can PM people you want to do a five (or whatever) tester swap.

You take the five you send and number them; keeping track of what scents correspond to the numbers. The other person does the same. You both ship the testers. Once you've blindly smelled, worn, whatever you want to do with the frags long enough you PM the other person back with your guesses and they can tell you what you got right.

This way there is less chance of someone getting shorted, participation is voluntary throughout the process (since there is no one person shipping all the testers to random people), and you can specialize the small batch testers however you like.

 

[jakespoppy]

I think this is a great idea, Robbie, that sounds like a fun way to "sample" some scents. I like the idea of "blind" sampling. I've often wondered if I would like or dislike certain colognes if I didn't know what they are - how much does either the marketing hype or the enthusiasm of others bias my opinions.

To follow up on your thoughts about how to keep the quality of frags up, you might consider getting the group together first, perhaps the first 10 to "sign up" for the first trial round? This keeps the number manageable. The the group could "vote" on either cologne price limits, eg. no colognes that retail for less than $25 for 1.7 ozs or more. Are you thinking one cologne per person? Maybe the value limit should be higher. Or you might get some feedback here on the parameters, then lay them out and take the first 10 to commit to participate?

 

[The Knize]

As I think about this, perhaps folks are uncomfortable parceling out say ten 1 ml sample straws themselves. If folks sent that ten mls or so to me in one bottle, I could easily and quickly divide it up into 1 ml each straws and do not mind sending out say 10packages of 10 different straws each. I am well equiped to do that.

jdh1007,

First thanks for writing in. I think the one-to-one back and forth might be fun, but I think if there were ten folks sampling the same frags blind it might be more festive. I do not think there is much chance of getting shorted with someone like me in the middle. If someone did not send in their 10 ml or more of juice, they would not get their 10 sample vials back.

Anyone have a scent rating sheet which would give a guide to rating scents blind?

My goal is not so much to have folks guess what the scent it. I think it is an impediment if someone actually knows the scent. I am more interested in forcing folks to try to pick out notes and to really think hard about what they like and do not like and force themselves to describe scents!

How about a cut of nothing cheaper than msr $40 for 1.7 oz? This would keep in the range things like Guerlain, I think, and PdH, without going to Tom Ford or Amouage levels. And the idea would be that whatever scent you picked would not be just some surplus thing you had lying around and did not really like, but something that you at last found very interesting.

Folks could put in more than one scent if they liked, but would not another set of ten samples out of it, I do not think. Not sure how to handle that!

 

[The Knize]

Wow, so all three of us are into this one, eh?

I had another thought: Just because we are trying to keep the cost of the scents on par and up, does not mean that I would not through in some less expensive scents, gratis, as ringers.

 

[tsmba]

I'm in....sounds like fun, and probably a good learning experience.

 

[kingfisher]

I think the idea is good, especially the blind aspect of it. But why limit yourselves to only expensive colognes? To me, half the interest would be whether there would be any less expensive colognes that might impress somebody if only they didn't KNOW that the cologne was cheap!

 

[The Knize]

I think the idea is good, especially the blind aspect of it. But why limit yourselves to only expensive colognes? To me, half the interest would be whether there would be any less expensive colognes that might impress somebody if only they didn't KNOW that the cologne was cheap!

I intend to put some less expensive ringers in and I am thinking that so long as another individual puts in an expensive frag, if they also want to put in one or more inexpensive frags at the same time that will be okay. Trying to keep the cost of contributions to the effort somewhat even by requiring a fairly high priced frag from each participant!

Those that know me know that I have no prejudice against less expensive frags!

 

[jdh1007]

Wow, so all three of us are into this one, eh?

I'm into the concept... and chimed in because I like the idea... but I am scent-less and wouldn't have much to contribute. Wanted to add my two scents to a neat idea.

 

[The Knize]

[This is not officially B&B sanctioned, by the way. So blame me, not B&B if something goes wrong!]

So okay, I bought 400 1 1/3 glass straws over the weekend and 144 5/8 dram screw top amber vials, if we want to go more deluxe.

Who wants to play? I think we should try to keep it to around 10 participants, but if we go to 12 or so, that is okay, or if folks want to go higher we can. I will count certain folks that have already expressed a strong interest as in, but everyone that wants to play you let me know by responding to this thread!

CONUS only for now. Sorry.

Each participant contributes the number of mls of high quality frag that we have participants, and maybe a tad more in case I get sloppy. Also contribute the same amount of any other frag if you fell like having some ringers or just want more scents.

I will transfer to numbered vials and send back out to everyone. Folks can send me some postage and packing money if they want to help on that, too. Make sure I have everyone's addresses, etc.

We can rate, review, explore these publicly on the forum. Exchange some PMs, too, if that seems appropriate. At some point we reveal what the juice was, But do not tell me at first either, so it will be plind to me. I will assign a number to each frag and label the vials. I can even keep that number secret from the person sending in the particular frags if you like.

If anyone has a sheet for rating frags, such as exists for wine tasting, that would be great.

I will be out of town the rest of the week, so it will get folks a chance to get things in!

Make sense?

 

[jakespoppy]

I'm in! Thanks Robbie!

I don't have a rating sheet. If nobody has one, we could make one up with group input before we start.

 

[The Knize]

I'm in! Thanks Robbie!

I don't have a rating sheet. If nobody has one, we could make one up with group input before we start.

Thanks, Randy. We may want to tweak whatever ratings sheet we find if there is one to find anyway. Strikes me that this might improve the review format for scents, too, or at least be a reference for doing reviews, which we need more of!

 

[The Knize]

Thought I would report back on the status of this "idea."

I and another B&B member (a dear friend, he can identify himself if he likes, and I am truly aprpeciative of his efforts on this test run; I do not id him for "his own protection"!) recently completed a dry run of how this would work. He sent me 9 numbered only atomizer decants of scents (note atomizers and larger than the 1 ml samples I had in mind distributing). I sniffed them and wrote up nots to send back to him for him to "guess" which numbered atomizer when with each set of notes. When we eventually got all of those correct, I then tried to guess which numbered vial was which named scent. At first without having a list of the scents and then having a list. Eventually, I got them all correct, but obviously there is something of a process of elimination, so eventually one is going to get them all correct. Some of these were scents that I love and thought I knew, .ad one of those I did not get until the very final round of "guesses".

This was undoubtably the most interesting exercise I have ever been involved with with scents. I would like to say I learned a lot, and I think I probably did, but as usual, part of what I learned was to be humble! And I learned that my sense of smell seemed to be a lot better some times than other times. I think also that one can overload sniffing too many scents in a setting. Also, I did not think to try it at the time, but I think the order in which one smells scents may make a lot of difference.

Anyway, I am still up for say ten folks contributing 10 mls each of quality scents, plus some ringers, and then redistritubting 1 ml samples of each back out to the same folks in blind, numbered vials, and then talking about them on this forum and seeing where it goes. I am somewhat concerned that 1 ml samples are not large enough. 1 ml would not have been nearly enough for me for the exercise I undertook. It took repeatedly sniffing to say the least! But more than 1 ml may be impractical. I suppose going up to 1.5 ml would not be. And I think atomizers would be best, but I do not think I am, or we are, as a practical matter, going to be funding 100 atomizers! Although indivisuals can of course transfer samples into anything they like!

Also, I do not blame anyone if they are intimidated by the exercise. I should have been! But I think we will find that actually identifying even scents that we think are well-known to us individually is difficult to say the least, and that most of us would/will stumble along with that. We are not trying to establish the best nose on the forum! Or who can sling perfumer jargon around with the most apparent profiency. It is not a contest.

I think we could keep comments more abstract, if we want to, and more explore things like whether we like certain scents or not, or what they seem like. I think we may come up with some surprising results as to what we really like and do not when things are sniffed blind. Like a blind wine tasting when one of the least expensive Cabs is picked as the favorite. And I nearly promise it will be educational. A self-exploration, perhaps.

I am afraid though that it might not work to get as elaborate as my test. Although with ten folks sniffing and commenting maybe it can. Maybe we are testing the "wisdom of crowds"!

So does anyone have any comments, thoughts, brainstorms, after hearing my recent experiences? Anyone want in?

Even if we never get the off the ground, I highly recommend the kind of exercise I tried to anyone. Feel free to pair off among yourselves and report back experiences, etc. I think this could take any of us that have the time and inclination to new heights, so to speak, re screwing around with frags. Sort of a you can run but cannot hide. But seriously, no one should be actually intimidated. Do it at whatever level you are comfortable with!

Thanks everyone for reading along what I know are long and perhaps rambling posts on something no one may really be interested in! All comments are appreciated. Be brutally honest within reason. If this seems just too, too into scents, I understand that too!

 

[Austin]

Thanks Robbie. That truly sounds interesting. I would be interested in seeing the results posted after it is completed.

 

[The Knize]

Thanks Robbie. That truly sounds interesting. I would be interested in seeing the results posted after it is completed.

I was actually thinking that there would be public posts on an ongoing basis, with a summary maybe at the end and/or at various stages, but perhaps folks would be more comfy with PMs during the process. I am thinking it would be good to have something members could follow along with but I am of course open to suggestions and defer to B&B on what is best for the web site!

 

[professorchaos]

This sounds like fun! Count me in.

 

[The Knize]

This sounds like fun! Count me in.

You are in!

 

[professorchaos]

Cool.

 

[bbarton713]

This reminds me of when I first started drinking wine. My wife got me one of those sets that came with around 20 different scents (strawberry, green pepper, smoke, etc.) ant it was fun sniffing a scent and then seeing if I could identify that particular scent in the wine I had in a glass.

The overall result of the process is that I learned what scents are associated with a type of wine and how to appreciate the many layers of scent that could be in a good glass of wine.

I would imagine that the application would be similar here. Once you know what different components of a good cologne or edt smell like you will be able to discern them in other varieties.

I'd love to say I'd do this but I don't have that many different bottles and none of them are fancy schmancy. Aside from that, having a 2-year-old in the home makes finding the time to enjoy a shave challenging enough.

Good luck with the exercise, I'm interested in seeing how it all plays out.

 

[jakespoppy]

Thanks Robbie, for offering to "protect my identity", but I do not mind stepping up and sharing some of my thoughts, too, as well as adding to a few of your comments.

This was a lot of fun and very interesting from my perspective, too. Robbie had by far the more challenging part, at least as I see it, trying to describe what he got from each of 9 scents that were only identified with numbers 1 thru 9.

Robbie did a great job of describing each scent in general, as well as picking up on many of the specific notes. His very detailed descriptions made it easier for me to pick out which scent by name he was describing. Remember, I knew each scent by name and bottle number, I just didn't know which one he was describing each time. And he did them all at once, spread over a couple of days.

I honestly don't believe that I have the ability to pick out nearly as many notes as Robbie did when it comes my turn to do the "blind scent descriptions". When I smell scents, I think more in terms of "this smells like...." or "this reminds me of......", and in either case, it may not be a scent note or another scent that it smells like or reminds me of, it may be something like "this scent smells like I'm standing in the middle of a large field of three feet tall, very damp or wet grass, with wet earth all around", which is how I have described a vetiver scent in the past.

I agree with Robbie this could be very intimidating. I think some "ground rules" should be agreed upon, including that we will allow each person the freedom to express what they can in the way the can best. And it's critical that we acknowledge up front that two people can smell the same scent and get very different impressions from that scent. We should be able to enjoy and even marvel at the different perspectives each person has. As Robbie said, it is not a contest.

Personally, when discussing scents on B&B I usually indicate if I like a scent or don't, or am undecided, but to me it seems more important to describe as best I can what something smells like to me, rather than just whether or not I like it. Here's an example of why: Gray Flannel is one of the most popular scents around here. I know Robbie likes it. I can't stand it. I'm still trying to figure out what it is that makes it unpleasant to me.

It's possible that doing this all together as a group of, say, 10 people, could prove to be more confusing than helpful. If we try it, we should be open to that possibility, and feel satisfied that we gave it a try and it didn't work. There shouldn't be any reason for anyone to get frustrated or be disappointed if it proves too, whatever. We should be able to laugh and say, "well, that didn't work, but it was kind of fun".

I love to joke and tease a lot on B&B, but I promise not to do so at anyone's expense in this process. Unless it's Harry, of course.

And as Robbie says, there's always the opportunity to do this one-on-one, like we did, or are doing. (I still haven't done the blind guessing, yet).

As for this being too into scents, well, I guess there is such a thing, but probably not with any of you who are still reading this far down in this thread.

I'm still in for the group experiment, if it goes forward, Robbie.