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New Honing Accessory

First and foremost, I am in no way affiliated with Kasfly, the maker of this item, I am purely sharing something I’ve found to be extremely useful when it comes to honing with films.

Now that the disclaimer is out of the way, let’s get into it. A couple weeks ago I purchased the Kasfly Sandpaper/Lapping film holder to test out for razors. I was looking for something that would hold the films flat, tight, and secure and this seemed to fit the bill quite nicely.

When it arrived it met all of my expectations, great machining, and a high quality fit and finish, but more importantly it did exactly what I wanted it to do, hold the film flat and secure while Honing.

I know people will say this is unnecessary, and the same can be achieved using a piece of glass, acrylic, or tile from the local hardware store, and while I partially agree, this solution offers some benefits that those don’t, and I have gotten more consistent, better results with this method.

The biggest advantage of this is that it securely holds the film in place, allowing me to hone under running water throughout the entire process. This makes sure any excess swarf/contaminants are carried away from the film, and I’ve noticed less rogue microchips and deeper than normal scratches than I used to get just honing with standing water on the film. It is a small difference, but it is an improvement.

I also have noticed that the film actually lays a bit flatter than it did on tile or glass, as there is some tension holding it down to the platen other than just the suction created by spraying some water under the film. I believe that at a microscopic level the film is in better contact with the platen than with any other setup I have tried, though I admittedly have no direct proof of this, only indirect signs from looking at the resulting edge under a microscope.

Long story short, for anyone who does most of their honing on films, or is like me and just likes to push the boundaries and experiment with new things, this is definitely worth checking out. While definitely not NEEDED to achieve good results with films, I believe it does push the envelope a bit further allowing me to get everything just a bit sharper. It’s also much less finicky than trying to get just the right amount of stiction between the film and a piece of glass using only water. Just clamp it in, tighten it down and you’re off to the races.

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Looks nice enough for those that use film, I tried film several years back and just decided to stay with my wet stones.
 

Slash McCoy

I freehand dog rockets
Looks very awkward to hold in hand, and a lot of film real estate is wasted. Also are you absolutely sure you have zero bubbles or lint or dust under the film? To me, it looks like a solution searching for a problem that isn't really there, and not addressing it very efficiently or conveniently, anyway. Just my dos centavos, YMMV and all that.

<EDIT> I will say this, though. It looks well built and is a very nice looking gadget, so it should sell very well.
 
Looks nice enough for those that use film, I tried film several years back and just decided to stay with my wet stones.

I actually still prefer my wet stones and naturals as well, but always like to experiment with new things, and have been impressed with how easy to use and idiot proof lapping film is. While my naturals, and even a few choice synthetics give ma an edge that I prefer over lapping film, they seem to be much more finnicky and reluctant t ogive up that perfect edge I know they are capable of.

Looks very awkward to hold in hand, and a lot of film real estate is wasted. Also are you absolutely sure you have zero bubbles or lint or dust under the film? To me, it looks like a solution searching for a problem that isn't really there, and not addressing it very efficiently or conveniently, anyway. Just my dos centavos, YMMV and all that.

<EDIT> I will say this, though. It looks well built and is a very nice looking gadget, so it should sell very well.

It DEFINATELY is not suited to honing in hand, and to be honest when I posted this I thought to myself Slash is going to HATE this thing.

That being said, it works quite nicely for those of us that don't hone in hand and for me definitely offers some benefits, or at least edges that look better under the microscope than the the traditional lapping film methods.

I am absolutely positive there is no debris under the film during use, as I apply the film wet, exactly the same way I would on a piece of tile, just with the added ability to hold it securely in place and add tension to the film.

Once my new microscope arrives, I'll do a more detailed comparison of tile/glass backing versus this setup, and I have a feeling the results may surprise you if my current crappy microscope is any indication of the deference.

Finally, to the point of solving a problem that doesn't exist, it was designed for use in the knife sharpening world, where using lapping film was previously virtually impossible, as the sharpening is so much more vigorous that the stiction from water on a tile just was not adequate to hold it in place.
 
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I think that's very interesting. I don't hone on film and I never have, but it seems to address a potential problem and it looks very well built!
 

Slash McCoy

I freehand dog rockets
I actually still prefer my wet stones and naturals as well, but always like to experiment with new things, and have been impressed with how easy to use and idiot proof lapping film is. While my naturals, and even a few choice synthetics give ma an edge that I prefer over lapping film, they seem to be much more finnicky and reluctant t ogive up that perfect edge I know they are capable of.



It DEFINATELY is not suited to honing in hand, and to be honest when I posted this I thought to myself Slash is going to HATE this thing.

That being said, it works quite nicely for those of us that don't hone in hand and for me definitely offers some benefits, or at least edges that look better under the microscope than the the traditional lapping film methods.

I am absolutely positive there is no debris under the film during use, as I apply the film wet, exactly the same way I would on a piece of tile, just with the added ability to hold it securely in place and add tension to the film.

Once my new microscope arrives, I'll do a more detailed comparison of tile/glass backing versus this setup, and I have a feeling the results may surprise you if my current crappy microscope is any indication of the deference.

And bubbles under the film?

Anyway you don't have to make ME happy. You have to make YOU happy.
 
I think that's very interesting. I don't hone on film and I never have, but it seems to address a potential problem and it looks very well built!

It is certainly well machined. It is not an essential item for honing with film, but in my opinion it makes the process much easier, and delivers slightly better results.

And bubbles under the film?

Anyway you don't have to make ME happy. You have to make YOU happy.
No bubbles, no nothing. The film is applied exactly as it is on any other surface, just with tension added at the end after it is already flat. Just for clarification, I just threw a piece of film on there dry for the photos and didn't do anything to make sure it was totally flat or prefect as I would before actual use.

And I don't think I could make you happy with this thing if it turned water to wine hahahah :smile:
 
@JohnEzra maybe that’s why I never kept using films, I used them for several months on and off and the results were very consistent and I honestly never felt challenged using them, I have used synthetic hones, natural hones and films and the ones I seemed to like the most were JNATS as they seem to really test my skill on honing by pressure, slurry, types of nagura’s used etc... and films although nice and consistent they just seemed like cheating on the last finish.

For the past few months I have only been using two stones ( Shapton 4k GS/Nakayama Kiita) and with the kiita I use 2-4 different nagura's and I find it more rewarding as it pushes my ability to get the most I can from these two hones, the 4k is easy but using a JNAT to do the balance is a challenge I enjoy and films don’t do that as there grit is a given and the end is always the same which is not bad but I like to test myself more.

I don’t want this to come off like I’m banging on guys that use film but I need and enjoy more of a challenge and naturals do that but then I’m the same guy that does not use a loupe anymore on my edges unless someone sends me a razor to hone or I have banged the edge on something, I just use a cherry tomato and TNT for bevel setting and then shave and if the shave is no good I have not done my job....

As my Mentor preached to me long ago its “ Hone, Shave, Repeat”
 
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@Jnatcat I'm 100% in agreement with you. The lapping films are just a means to an end, with no real enjoyment or value other than achieving a sharp edge with minimal effort. That being said, if someone with zero sharpening knowledge, or interest in going down the rabbit hole asked me how he should keep his razor sharp, I would absolutely recommend films to them.

My background in sharpening comes from Japanese knives, so my appreciation for Japanese Natural Stones and the different techniques and steps to achieve a beautiful, sharp edge has been around far longer than I have been honing straight razors. Something about the look, feel and smell, yes smell, of Japanese Natural Stones just strike a chord with me that even other naturals do not.

Even considering my love for Jnats, I just like to experiment with different honing techniques and substrates, just to see what the strengths and weaknesses of each are. I have three different 7 day sets of razors on the way, and you best believe for the bevel setting and initial steps I'll be breaking out the film just to avoid having to flatten stones. They'll all probably be finished on my Ozuku or Nakayama depending on my mood that day, but the chances of me doing a full nagura progression from bevel set to finish on 21 razors in one day is pretty low.
 
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@JohnEzra the most I have done is a bevel set or a slurried 4k Shapton and then rinse clean and finish on water only then do a 4 nagura progression on my favorite jnat and was very pleased with the results.

Its a small stone that has limited real estate but does the job very nicely if I do my part but I will admit at times it’s a challenge but that just makes me want to hone more on a natural hone.

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rbscebu

Girls call me Makaluod
@JohnEzra that is interesting arrangement for honing with lapping films. I can't see the need for tension in the lapping films but I can appreciate the advantage of holding the film in place to hone under running water.

I am a honer-in-hand bloke so what Kasfly are offering wouldn't suit me. It does however get me thinking of a way to try and hold my films in place for honing under running water. I have a few spare lapping film substrates lying around so might look into what I can knock up.
 

David

B&B’s Champion Corn Shucker
It seems to me like it might be more useful for coarser work with W/D instead of having to glue it down.
My first thought was that it would be great for thinning knives with W/D. You could really put some pressure on that thing and not have to worry about constant dishing from stones. It looks very well made.
 
@JohnEzra that is interesting arrangement for honing with lapping films. I can't see the need for tension in the lapping films but I can appreciate the advantage of holding the film in place to hone under running water.

I am a honer-in-hand bloke so what Kasfly are offering wouldn't suit me. It does however get me thinking of a way to try and hold my films in place for honing under running water. I have a few spare lapping film substrates lying around so might look into what I can knock up.

The ability to use it with running water is defieitely nice, the tension is just kind of an added benefit as it keeps things super flat, but for razors it is unnecessary.

Thats pretty cool. I like it. A bit pricey
Yeah! I checked the price too. Kinda does away with the low entry cost of film and W/D.

It is definitely a bit pricey, and goes against the lapping film mentality of minimal cost of entry for great results. But it is very well made.

It seems to me like it might be more useful for coarser work with W/D instead of having to glue it down.
My first thought was that it would be great for thinning knives with W/D. You could really put some pressure on that thing and not have to worry about constant dishing from stones. It looks very well made.

To be honest when I bought it I knew i wanted to use it to experiment with my razors, but had a feeling I would primarily use it for thinning knives and sharpening plane blades and chisels. I think heavier/more aggressive work with coarse films or W/D will be where this really shines.
 
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