New Honer needs Help

[Ohio]

I have a couple of old razors, and I am teaching myself to hone and to use a straight. I know it's suggested not to do both, but the choice is learn to hone a cheap razor or don't use a straight; no money to spend here.

I have a Norton 1k/4k stone that I have worked the razors on. One of them I can actually shave with, though not too comfortably. I have honed it carefully, then stropped on an old strop loaded with Dico Jeweler's Rouge (red stick).

I know, I need a finer hone, or lapping film, or diamond sheets.

I don't know what to get that would be inexpensive and what grits or where to buy them.

Could someone give me the short story on where to take a good 4K edge next, where to get it, and how cheaply can it be done?

I am looking for "pretty good", not "best possible".

 

[leighton]

You need an 8k to really shave off of. Then just crox it up if your feeling cheap or get a finishing hone and then add crox.

OR, you can just shave off the 8k, I did it for a couple of years.

edit: PM Seraphim about his diamond films. I hear they're pretty cheap.

 

[Slartibartfast]

Yeah like leighton said, you need an 8k stone at least before you try to go to any pastes.


Do you have a non-pasted strop too?

 

[SavantStrike]

An 8k. I would say another Norton might be a good fit, or maybe one of the other synthetic waterstones.

8k + chromox is a very shavable edge. I have not done straight off of 8k yet so I can't advise on that.

 

[Ohio]

Yeah like leighton said, you need an 8k stone at least before you try to go to any pastes.


Do you have a non-pasted strop too?

Yes, I have a non-pasted strop.
Can Chrom-Ox be used effectively from a 4k stone, or does one go to 8k first by default? Can one use a chrom-ox pasted strop from 4k, and still get to the same place as if the 8k stone is used? Will it take 8 hours on the strop?

I guess that can all be distilled into: Does the 8k stone only speed up the process, or is it an irreplaceable step in the process?

Also, from what I have read that Dico rouge is a lot finer than chrom-ox. Would a good practice be 4k>8k>chrom-ox>Dico?

I assume that the chrom-ox is used off of a pasted strop, right? And it is the same as the "green paste" that dealers sell for strops?

I was thinking of getting or making a paddle strop, double-sided, and using it for the pastes and then use the unpasted hanging strop unpasted. That's "best practice", I think. Pasted stops are best used on a paddle basis so pressure won't curve the strop and ruin the edge, I have read.



I'm not trying to be dense; but I would rather buy another razor than spend $80 on an 8k waterstone. And I don't even have that money right now.

 

[stnlymumford]

You might want to check out a spyderco here? Cheap, good, suck to lap (lapping is debateable)

 

[Ohio]

You might want to check out a spyderco here? Cheap, good, suck to lap (lapping is debateable)

I hate that so many compoanies sell stones with no grit mentioned.
Their "UltraFine could be anything from 800 to 12000.

 

[Ohio]

You need an 8k to really shave off of. Then just crox it up if your feeling cheap or get a finishing hone and then add crox.

OR, you can just shave off the 8k, I did it for a couple of years.

edit: PM Seraphim about his diamond films. I hear they're pretty cheap.

But the question I have never seen answered is "Which diamond film is equal to 8k waterstone? Which is equal to 12k coticule?"

 

[gugi]

I have a couple of old razors, and I am teaching myself to hone and to use a straight. I know it's suggested not to do both, but the choice is learn to hone a cheap razor or don't use a straight; no money to spend here.

The 1k/4k norton is where all the important work happens, but you need something finer, on the 8k level. You could pull it off with a fast 12k hone, but the only one I have experience with that I can recommend is the $75 naniwa. A
coticule would work as well, but it's equally expensive.
Finishing barber hone may do it, but you want somebody who has successfully done that confirm it.

Spend the $2-$3 to send me a razor you're done with on the 1k/4k norton and I'll take a look at it, tell you if you need more work with these stones and will finish it for you.

And I don't think you can go with pastes past 4k norton, but could be. 3u diamond would be the next step.

 

[leighton]

I don't think I've ever heard of anyone going straight to crox after 4k. But that doesn't mean its impossible. It will probably work. But the bigger question is whether it is worth it. And the answer is probably no.

Another consideration is whether the edge will be as good as it could be, and the answer is also no. It is no because the amount of laps you would have to do on the crox would be huge, over 100. And you may not even be getting the same quality of edge as if you just went to an 8k stone. Again, I'm not saying its impossible, I just highly recommend not doing it because its not worth your time and the results are questionable. To me.

Check out the King stones, I hear they're pretty cheap. Otherwise, get the Spyderco fine, great stone, will never need lapping again in your lifetime and pretty cheap. Amazon is the best source.

 

[GsSixgun]

Couple of clarifications here...

CrOx and Green paste are two different things...

Just for info

Dovo Pastes

Green = 5-8 micron would work fine after a 4k stone in fact some of the German Straight razor forums do things way different than we do and use these pastes much more than we do...

Red = 3=5 micron

Black = 1-3 micron

These pastes are soft pastes their micron rating does not coincide what-so-ever to Diamond pastes... Many people have used the Dovo pastes and loom strops to finish out a razor after 4k stones... This system is just not popular over here, doesn't mean it doesn't work....

Diamond pastes will cut and they will cut darn fast if used on balsa...
Leather will cut slightly less and the Felt strops are down right smooth with Diamonds

Your oxides fall in a slightly less harsh cutting power then Diamonds

CrOx can be found in .50 micron, the most universal paste I have found so far is the .50 CrOx it can be safely used on every razor I have seen so far, after the razor is shaving sharp, it really only smooths an edge....... I am sure somebody has found a way to make it not work but I haven't...

The other one that is coming back into vogue is the CeOx or Yellowstone this is a finer optical grade abrasive that I would put somewhere near a .25 CrOx if there were such a thing...

There are also a few other oxides out there like Aluminum and Iron that can also be used, if you wanted to take the time...


Be very very careful of the "sticks" of CrOx and CeOx that certain places stock these have been found to not always be pure so make sure you check...

Powder is better, honest it is...


Hope this was of use....

 

[Ohio]

The 1k/4k norton is where all the important work happens, but you need something finer, on the 8k level. You could pull it off with a fast 12k hone, but the only one I have experience with that I can recommend is the $75 naniwa. A
coticule would work as well, but it's equally expensive.
Finishing barber hone may do it, but you want somebody who has successfully done that confirm it.

Spend the $2-$3 to send me a razor you're done with on the 1k/4k norton and I'll take a look at it, tell you if you need more work with these stones and will finish it for you.

And I don't think you can go with pastes past 4k norton, but could be. 3u diamond would be the next step.

PM Sent.

 

[RetroGrouch]

An inexpensive option is the 3M mylar honing films. They're only a couple of bucks for an 8 1/2 x 11" sheet. (Available at Lee Valley and other stores.)

I've found the finest version, .5 micron, polishes as well or better than an 8000 grit Norton. And I can shave comfortably right off them (after stropping on leather, of course). They cut fast, but the downside is that they wear out fairly quickly.

If you PM me your address, I'll mail you a couple of 8 1/2 x 2 1/2" samples, no charge. One to practice on, and the other for future touch-ups. Since you only have one razor, this should be enough to last a long time.

Cheers,

Mike