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New guy- my first successful hone with the stones (but i had to use tape)

Well I finally did it! I got my darned Hornet honed to shave ready and even shaved with it this morning. What started with me trying to "touch it up" on 3u film turned into a mess...and I made it worse the more I tried to fix it. Once I decided I had no chance of ever shaving with the edge again I butter knifed it and set out to reset the bevel and start over (how hard can it be right?). How hard can it be? I failed so hard its not even funny. I spent hours every evening for days trying to get a bevel. I'd think I have one and proceed through the stages and end up with a ...butter knife. 600 grit paper, same thing.

Finally I ordered some stones from Amazon, I didn't care what I got as long as it came FAST and was as wide as possible. I ended up with a TAIDEA 1000/3000, King 6000, King #8000 Nagira and a LAVODA 10000. These aren't exactly what I wanted but I was frustrated these came close enough...and I think I came in under $60. By the way, did you know there is exactly NO consensus among you honers (or is it stoner's) as to which grit combination is critical to own, what progression is acceptable or what brands & materials a beginner might consider. For those who might be wondering, the TAIDEA and LOVODA (and a few other odd named stones on Amazon) appear to all be made by the same maker but have different brands stamped on them, they are wrapped and boxed the same. They seem to be decent quality and certainly did the job (as evidenced by the outcome) BUT the King stone was a noticeably better quality (smoother draw and faster to make a slurry). I like the width of the two Chinese generic stones but the King feels very nice.

After several more failed attempt to even raise a burr I decided I could no longer subject the spine to the torture and put a layer of electrical tape on it. When I returned to the stone I was surprised to find that within several strokes I had begun to form a burr. It took 100 strokes in total to get a burr across the entire edge but I did it...Flip and repeat, finishing strokes and so on. I did the bevel setting on the 1000 while the stone was flat, I progressed through the other stones while holding them in one hand the razor in the other (per Slash McCoy's suggestion). Before I switch to the 3000 stone I replaced the tape that had worn slightly (I didn't know for sure if I was supposed to leave it on or take it off at this point-...?) I didn't count strokes on the other stones and I cant say exactly how I determined when to move to the next stone. I used only enough pressure to keep the blade flat against the stone, which was more than feather and less than I was using on the film I am sure. My progression was like this (keep in mind I only just received these stones and lapped them flat, I have no other Idea what I am supposed to be doing...don't judge ok):
1000 bevel set - replace tape - 3000 - 6000 - 6000+ #8000 Nagira slurry - 10000 - 6000+#8000 Nagira Slurry - 10000 - 1u film - 0.5u pasted balsa strop - REMOVE tape - 0.5u pasted balsa strop - 0.25 pasted balsa strop - 0.1u pasted balsa strop - 100 leather - 0.1u pasted balsa strop - LOTS (250+laps) of leather stropping

Being proud of my first and only success I plan to trade mark my process, I call it the CBLindsay Kithchen Sink method. I call it that because I used every stone I purchased and every method I read about, watched or even dreamed about. Basically I stole from every last one of you and then added a whole lotta prayers.

I do have a big question about honing with tape as I did. When should it come off? This is a new to me razor and the spine looks the same to me as it did when I got it (flat-square) but I did a lot to this razor over many days so I could have done plenty to the geometry. Hard to imagine I could have taken that much off the spine and never touched the bevel edge so I am guessing I bought a razor that was honed with a taped edge before and/or was just THAT close to tolerance. Thoughts?

Anyway. Just wanted to share my success and gloat. Now I plan to tackle the frowning razor I started working on a little while back.
 
if you start with tape you should replace it often a d finish with it.

the only other type of honing when using tape are with a coticule version at the end, is it dilucot?

and i think i saw zowada writing once that a fine finisher at the very end. but recently ive read that it may be more often from the get go

also if you have a cosmetic thing to preserve or geometry requires it.
 
Congrats.
Honed, stroped, shaved, done. Perfect.

Don't sweat stuff that isn't bothering your shave. There's a lot of chatter about this/that/the other thing, alot of which seems to out-weigh the actual results.

Calculate the bevel angle later on if you want to. You can't add steel to the spine, so - well, it's sort of a moot point now.
If, by chance, you honed the edge up too high and the bevel's angle is too blunt, you'd know. Doesn't seem that way.
You'd know if it was too acute also, the edge won't hold. So....

If you're shaving well - you're fine, he razor is fine too. Be happy.

One more thing - where's the pix?
 
I suppose pics are in order. I'll post them here now. Based on my rough measurements in three spots in the blade, I figure a blade angle of 16 degrees achieved IF I used no tape but with tape as I did I pushed above 16.25 maybe approaching high 16.3's. Under microscope the old blade looks decent and consistent.

I will say this...the edge is shave ready, even enjoyable BUT nothing at all like the perfection on the razor I got from Seraphim. WOW, that one sets the bar high.

Here are photos:
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Here's a close up of the spine ware. It looked a lot like this when I got it only not as scratched and maybe not as pronounced
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The Arsenal used. Just plain old stones.
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I've been happy with a Suehiro 1000/3000 as a set-up for what's to come, naturally-speaking. So I'm glad to hear that the Taidea line might be viable. They have a lot of interesting combinations.

A few weeks back, I goofed around with a King 1200/8000 combo and came up with a surprisingly good edge. 1k,3k, 6k, 8k, 10k seems like a packed house to me, but why not? Looking for a burr may be fine with knives, it doesn't seem to be of as much concern with hollowed razors.
 
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The burr thing WAS mentioned here then I had to look further to find out what that was as I was really starting from scratch. I found value in that approach because it was well defined. I didn't really know what a burr was until a real one formed THEN I knew I never had one before. The thumb pad test and even nail test are a little too subjective for a first time. Now that I have some points of reference I might be able to use those and other cues.

I get the science/trigonometry behind the angles but I am still amazed at the impact changes in grit, pressure and angles makes on that wonderful shaving edge. Science becomes art. Even as I used the stones for the first time I could "feel" changes as the blade progressed on each stone. I think the tape on the spine left me missing some much needed feedback, or at least shortened the time on each stone. I swear I could feel when the blades bevel had become so polished by the stone that it "stuck" to the stone. Based on different conversations I read I can't help but think some finishing stones or techniques can produce the most amazing edges in the hands of the right people...I am not one of those people.
 
CBL, you'll eventual get there with practice. there is really so much finesse a honer can apply.. it's more so, imho, practice and paying attention and checking

if you think that feedback is hampered by tape, the best thing to do is get a beater and hone without tape. the feedback to me is really subtle, but the feeling you describe of suction is very easy to see, i notice a huge difference say in the finishers where it progresses to stuck then to unstuck.. quite an interesting change in feel.
 
if you think that feedback is hampered by tape, the best thing to do is get a beater and hone without tape. the feedback to me is really subtle, but the feeling you describe of suction is very easy to see, i notice a huge difference say in the finishers where it progresses to stuck then to unstuck.. quite an interesting change in feel.

Strongly agree. You should buy a ZY430+ on the 'bay and use it to learn honing. A GD800 or so is fine too, or a GD66 or GD300 that someone has fixed for you already (that shoulder is a PITA.)

You won't regret it. Mine are still my honing testbeds and I still shave off them periodically to test new techniques.
 
Awesome bud! I never liked that film stuff either. I wanted to try those taidea stones and never heard of anyone using them. I hope they work out great! As Gamma said, don't sweat the small stuff. The only thing that matters is the shave. As you keep honing your edges will only improve. So what's next? Natural stones maybe? This is our struggle. Figuring out stones, then moving on the the next. It's all about the challenge and the Pursuit for the perfect shave.
 
Ok. Just like always, I couldn't leave well enough alone. I just wanted to see if I could go to the 10k stone without tape on the spine, spend a good amount of time there and go through the rest of the progression to get an edge that had an angle true to the intended geometry based on spine and width. The result was shavable but a lot less comfortable. I confirmed under high magnification I had not created a double bevel but I did see very slight imperfections/chips that I suspect are a result of the 1u film stage. I will be skipping that film until or unless I use a new sheet.

SO... I started over. I went back to 1000 grit with no tape and did it all again. I didn't get as aggressive a burr (maybe I didn't get a burr at all) and it certainly took some time, but I believe I was able to coax a new bevel into place. In theory, this new bevel should be much closer to 16 degrees. I worked the edge through all other grits excluding the 1u film, then finished on the pasted balsa (.5 .25 .1), some synthetic canvas and leather stropping.

I have yet to shave with it but I am getting hair removal on my arm. At first I was frightened I has gone backwards because as I tried to top hairs on my arm I couldn't feel a tug or hear any "ting" or pop, but I saw hairs falling silently. The silent hair removal was repeated at skin level. Hopefully this is a good sign. We will have to wait for a full shave test to see.
 
So I did finally have a chance to shave test the results of re-hone with no tape. I must say the results were AMAZING. The edge was fast and smooth on all passes. I think the very tip of the toe may be less keen but not in a way that can feel, only in a way that I can detect on testing with HHT.

I'm pretty darn happy now.
 
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