New Car Advice

[sphughes]

I blew the engine on my Saab Friday night and while I wait word on what the replacement engine will cost me, I am contemplating my options. I am leaning towards buying a VW Passat because with the other engine, I will be shelling out some cabbage that might be better spent towards a new vehicle, but I am open to suggestions. The dealers are offering generous pricing on 07's to make room for the 08's coming next month. Anyone wanting to throw their $.02 out here, please do.

-Scott

 

[Doc4]

There is something to be said for having a car that is all paid for, but eventually they all get beyond the point of no return and the maintenance & repair costs just keep mounting. I guess it depends where your SAAB is on that roller coaster ride to oblivion ...

 

[geoff]

I am a big fan of used.
If you get a fairly new lease return or such you are still getting a basically new car with fairly negligible mileage but you let someone else take the big depreciation hit when they drive it off the lot.

 

[Dennis]

How's the body on the Saab? How's the transmission and other important bits? For what it's worth, the Car Talk guys highly recommend buying used. A new car's value plummets as soon as you drive it off the lot. Not being a fashion plate, I drive my vehicles until they are really dead. 170,000 miles plus and counting on my truck. Hope to get another 2 years at least out of it.

Dennis

 

[JBHoren]

Get a used VW Rabbit diesel (or similar) and convert it to run on used fast-food-store cooking/frying oil.

If nothing else, buying a used car is valid recycling. I bought my 1998 Dodge Neon in July 2004, with 36,100 miles on it, for $2,450. Now, three years later, its got 76,600 miles on it, runs like a champ (gets 30mpg combined driving, and 34mpg on the highway), and I've only had to replace the tires and water-pump, do the brakes, and change the oil every 3,000 miles.

YMMV

 

[jramire2]

IF you're going to buy new, NEVER buy the first year of a new model/bodystyle/major change of any line.

A guy I work with went to court w/the VW dealer he bought his Jetta from b/c it was a lemon.

After the settlement, he paid cash for a new Acura TL if that gives you an idea of the outcome.

I also wanted a passat (TDI for the gas mileage), until I started reading the reviews on them from edmunds.com and consumerguide.com. Japanese cars are ranked highest in reliability, second are domestics, and lastly are european cars (according to JD Powers).

I've had a 98 Nissan Frontier for 5 years w/no work needed except for brakes and oil changes after 92k miles. We got my wife a 2 year old Trailblazer, and it's already at over $1.5k in work done since the warranty went out at 36k.

Japanese imports are the way to go.

 

[rtaylor61]

Get a used VW Rabbit diesel (or similar) and convert it to run on used fast-food-store cooking/frying oil.

If nothing else, buying a used car is valid recycling. I bought my 1998 Dodge Neon in July 2004, with 36,100 miles on it, for $2,450. Now, three years later, its got 76,600 miles on it, runs like a champ (gets 30mpg combined driving, and 34mpg on the highway), and I've only had to replace the tires and water-pump, do the brakes, and change the oil every 3,000 miles.

YMMV

That sounds like a lot of maintenance!

Do your research and buy what you are comfortable with. I sell Honda's, so I'm partial to them. Your budget is important, so if you are going to buy used, do some extensive research. Others may disagree, but I do recommend buying a service contract. Your research can show you what is a fair price for this item. Also, while Carfax is not perfect, I would require one if buying a used car. We have a customer at work now complaining that the trans in her Toyota is out (she purchased 6 months ago) and whining that she didn't buy a service contract because she was buying a Toyota. Well, cars are mechanical, and they do breakdown, and in today's world, repairs are expensive. One last thing. Start your shopping via the internet. I sell cars online, and have the highest CSI in our store.

Best of luck in your search.

Randy

 

[Lynchmeister]

If you decide to go the "new car" route, might I suggest a certified pre-owned vehicle rather than brand new off the lot? I bought my 02 VW Jetta 1.8 Turbo in 04 with 28,000 miles as a lease return. It still had half of the existing bumper to bumper warranty plus VW tacked on an extension which came out to a larger warranty than that of the original when bought new!

Agreed that Japanese cars are built to last and do so reliably. I'm a sucker for German cars, but my next may just be a Honda or Toyota. One this is for sure, domestic cars are no longer the benchmark for dependability and quality and I seriously doubt that I'll own another one any time soon. YMMV.

 

[VR6ofpain]

One this is for sure, domestic cars are no longer the benchmark for dependability and quality and I seriously doubt that I'll own another one any time soon. YMMV.

Yes but domestics have better dependability than German cars (as of lately, according to statistics). The first 3 cars I owned were all VW's. I drive a Honda now. I'll never buy another VW, much less a German car ever again. You pay more up front, parts are extremely expensive (compared to domestic and Japanese), and the reliability is far behind. I never figured out why everyone talks about "German engineering" as something good. Complication does not equate to a superior design.

Take the VR6 motor; which was in the last two Jettas I owned. It was a very interesting example of "German engineering". In realizing the water pump was on its way out I investigated replacing it in my repair manual. Turns out the motor was suppose to be pulled from the engine bay with a hoist and then the pump can be removed. Seems they put a large motor (2.8 liter) in a small car (sub-compact, A3 Jetta) and didn't actually consider maintenance costs. With the engine still installed in the engine bay there is only about 2" of clearance between the water pump and part of the sub-frame. It needs about 5" of clearance to remove the pump. That is why the repair manual indicated to remove the motor with a hoist. Nice.


All this aside the VR6 motor was probably one of the sweetest sounding motors I have ever heard. Yes I can really enjoy the growl of a good sounding American V8, but the scream of those 6 cylinders was intoxicating. I was sad to see the car go, for it had so much soul...but reality kicked in and I realized the upcoming repairs would cost close to the value of the car (needed a new water pump, power steering pump, and the timing chain and guides replaced).

 

[rickw]

Depends on the age of the Saab. If it has/had any value, in order to trade it in , it must have a running engine. What happened? I have a '04 93 Convertible.

If you go the new route, check Edmonds.com for pricing and deals.

Rick

 

[Woknblues]

I am gonna go with a Mini Cooper S... 2005+ (or higher).... I can't speak for all German cars (as mentioned above, my jetta was a disappointment, but my 71' Superbeetle was the love of my life at age 17), but that one served me well in the year I had it.

 

[PZBarber]

If the SAAB has done more than 100,000 miles it's gonna need cam chains, tensioners and a load of other parts just to rebuild it. A replacement motor is gonna cost you as well. My friend rebuilds SAAB motors charges £2500 to rebuild and re-install the motor.

If I were you I'd bite the bullet and go with the Passat.

I have been a long term VW fan, having owned 11 beetles, 3 early campers, 2 split screen campers, 4 fastbacks, 1 Squareback, 1 Karmann Ghia, 2 GP beach buggys, 3 Mk1 Golf/Rabbit Gti's, 2 Mk3 Golf/Rabbits, 1 Diesel Passat and I am currently banging around in Caddy/Rabbit Pickup Gti.

I'm biased

VW everytime, although SAAB used to make great cars.

Cheers

Mat

 

[sphughes]

Great feedback from all and it is appreciated. The Saab 95 is a 2001 so in another month it will be another year older. It has almost 130K on it for mileage (when purchased I was hoping for 200K) and the body has more than it's share of dents and dings (thanks to SWMBO not being able to drive in and out of the garage without using the braille method).

Currently maintenance costs are increasing annually which is to be expected I guess. There is alot to be said for a 'paid for' vehicle though. I have another 18 months on my wife's Honda CRV so I need to balance carrying 2 payments monthly. Maybe I'll hear today what the Saab will run me.

-Scott

 

[ScottS]

If you decide to go the "new car" route, might I suggest a certified pre-owned vehicle rather than brand new off the lot?

My brother bought a certified preowned vehicle, and it turned out that when he tried to have warranty work done that it wasn't actually "certified". This was when he figured out that you can get what you need out of a dealership faster by convincing them that you'll go after their license than by suing them.

 

[icemncmth]

Get a used VW Rabbit diesel (or similar) and convert it to run on used fast-food-store cooking/frying oil.

If nothing else, buying a used car is valid recycling. I bought my 1998 Dodge Neon in July 2004, with 36,100 miles on it, for $2,450. Now, three years later, its got 76,600 miles on it, runs like a champ (gets 30mpg combined driving, and 34mpg on the highway), and I've only had to replace the tires and water-pump, do the brakes, and change the oil every 3,000 miles.

YMMV

Did you see on the news about how some states are going to charge you a tax on the used cooking oil?.....Yep..seems like big brother wants to charge you a tax per gallon used!!!

 

[Stuyou]

If the transmission is working fine and the body isn't hacked up, I would recommend that you put a rebuilt engine in your SAAB. The SAAB is paid for and I am sure it's a lot better than anything you will find for the $3,000 it will cost you to replace the engine.

Note, in almost all cases it is a better financial decision to fix a broken car than to replace it - even if the fix is expensive. With that said, your time is worth something as well - so if extra maintenance is an issue (dealing with it not paying for it), then you may be better off getting another car.

Another way to state my point: If you spend $2K a year repairing your current car, it would take 8 years to buy a new car had you saved the $2K instead (assuming a reasonable $16K new car). If you bought a used car for $4K, it would take 2 years after wich time you will likely have to start repairing it. Keep in mind that $2K a year is A LOT to spend on repairing a car...I don't think I have ever averaged that much on any of my over 100Kmi vehicles.

 

[PZBarber]

Did you see on the news about how some states are going to charge you a tax on the used cooking oil?.....Yep..seems like big brother wants to charge you a tax per gallon used!!!

That is the law all over the UK for all types of BioFuel. Whether you use old cooking oil or fart in the tank the government want their cut.

Cheers

Mat

 

[bmwe28m5]

Yes but domestics have better dependability than German cars (as of lately, according to statistics). The first 3 cars I owned were all VW's. I drive a Honda now. I'll never buy another VW, much less a German car ever again. You pay more up front, parts are extremely expensive (compared to domestic and Japanese), and the reliability is far behind. I never figured out why everyone talks about "German engineering" as something good. Complication does not equate to a superior design.

Take the VR6 motor; which was in the last two Jettas I owned. It was a very interesting example of "German engineering". In realizing the water pump was on its way out I investigated replacing it in my repair manual. Turns out the motor was suppose to be pulled from the engine bay with a hoist and then the pump can be removed. Seems they put a large motor (2.8 liter) in a small car (sub-compact, A3 Jetta) and didn't actually consider maintenance costs. With the engine still installed in the engine bay there is only about 2" of clearance between the water pump and part of the sub-frame. It needs about 5" of clearance to remove the pump. That is why the repair manual indicated to remove the motor with a hoist. Nice.


All this aside the VR6 motor was probably one of the sweetest sounding motors I have ever heard. Yes I can really enjoy the growl of a good sounding American V8, but the scream of those 6 cylinders was intoxicating. I was sad to see the car go, for it had so much soul...but reality kicked in and I realized the upcoming repairs would cost close to the value of the car (needed a new water pump, power steering pump, and the timing chain and guides replaced).

The VR6 is a W-engine. Nobody makes a W-engine other than VW, and only Bugatti, Audi and VW use one. No mechanic besides a VW/Audi tech or a Bugatti engineer is going to want to tear one down. The engine pulling technique for maintenance seems to be a problem with VW, Audi, and Porsche (all VW brands). There are a few domestic engines that need to be pulled in order to do routine maintenance such as spark plug removal, but there isnt a production BMW, Mercedes or Opel that needs to have thier guts pulled to get at some plugs, the water pump or anything "consumable."

Mercedes build quality went down after the merger with Chrysler. Pre-chrysler Mercedes chassis are nearly invincible, particularly the W124 diesel models. Of course, maintenance costs of a fine german import are going to be more expensive than a domestic or a japanese car; that is the price of a great driving experience.

That said, you cannot beat the japanese for build quality and price. Lexus has the highest ratings in the industry for build quality and customer satisfaction. They go for miles and miles, need little maintenance, and are very comfortable daily drivers. Since a Toyota is the same thing with different badging and mildly different styling, you can have the same experience with a car that costs about 1/2 to 2/3 the cost of a Lexus.

I am gonna go with a Mini Cooper S... 2005+ (or higher).... I can't speak for all German cars but that one served me well in the year I had it.

It should. It is a BMW brand.

 

[sphughes]

As far as what went wrong.........NFI (no f-bomb idea). I was driving up the MA Pike (I-90) in Western MA and the check engine / oil pressure light came on. (The Saab is serviced regularly). I pulled over and popped the hood and saw a little bit of smoke. I had the car towed off the highway and looked at by the tow service the next day. I was 100+ miles from home for a baseball tournament my son was in. Fortunately my wife headed up earlier in the day with the kids in the Honda so she was able to find me at a local restaurant and get me to the hotel.

The tow service said the oil looked burnt and the likelihood of engine damage was there so they wanted nothing to do with it. I made arrangements to have it towed home and my mechanic has indicated that the engine is toast. It sounds like the gerbils that run around the wheel real quick to make it go have developed something terminal. So here I sit, waiting for a quote while I see what my options are.

-Scott

 

[bmwe28m5]

If it is a turbo 95, then the oil return passages probably clogged with oil sludge from turbo heat and caused a local buildup and loss in oil pressure. This has caused many engine failures in the Saab 95.

To be honest, you dont want to keep the Saab. Saabs are unreliable, quirky and cost a lot for what you get. Plus you are past the 100k point, and thats dangerous territory for a Saab. Electronic gremlins are the next big problem.