Need some help identifying what ithink might be a very special razor.

[Aschecte]

Ok so today my mother stopped by with a present for me ....... I guess I've been a good boy. Well long story short she brought over and handed to me my great great grandfathers shaving razors...... straight, DE, and SE as well as my great grand mothers as well. Now I have been studying our WIKI and also online photo's to conform what I believe strongly to be a old type ball end ..... it has no double or single ring but absolutely has the correct head type and ball end and matches every picture of a old type ball end in every aspect. Now what has me excited is our wiki says that serial numbers beginning with the number 1 began in the middle of 1904...... I think I have that number 1........ here are some pictures you guys tell me if I am on the right track......There are no other numbers on this at all period.... at first I thought it was a letter "I" and maybe part of a military set from 1918 but the letter I was never used it stopped at "J" when WW1 ended. after we get this out of the way maybe someone can point me in a direction to date what I think is a 1920 SE GEM micromatic antenna. thanks for any input.

 

[alex2363]

I know it is not a 1 because that would make it a double ring, i have to do some more research on this one. I remember a post some where. Maybe one of our many knowledgeable B&B'ers will chime in too.

 

[Aschecte]

I know it is not a 1 because that would make it a double ring, i have to do some more research on this one. I remember a post some where. Maybe one of our many knowledgeable B&B'ers will chime in too.

You very well my be right Alex.... I was just going by our dating chart.... it showed the ball end in production from 1904 to 1929 with the first 55,000 without serial #'s ..... that said I assumed that maybe this was a 1 or a letter L but that would not make any sense for that year or style...... Honestly I thought it was a military set but the letter L was not used so that is where I came up with the number 1 .... so yeah any info is helpful and appreciated and I agree with my limited knowledge the double ring pre dated the ball end by 1 year.... so it would make sense that it would carry that designation ? I'm truly at a loss.

 

[Aschecte]

No one else ???? maybe this was part of the 55,000 before serial numbers were issued ?

 

[mblakele]

No, sorry.

It has the diamond logo, which did not appear until 1908. And the handle is all wrong. It is probably post-1921, and the marks happened after it left the factory.

 

[Aschecte]

No, sorry.

It has the diamond logo, which did not appear until 1908. And the handle is all wrong. It is probably post-1921, and the marks happened after it left the factory.

Yes you are right after more research the diamond logo was not that early.... they were scripted not diamond logo's...... the handle is questionable as I see the same handle on mr-razor but in single or double ring so why not ball end ? that is a actual question not a confrontational statement. also this is why I thought it was a military issue look at the photo's here. Finally I strongly disagree those marks happened after the factory..... they are not scratches ..... I would believe this if it was on one side but they are on both sides in the exact same place I even measured the distance these are stamped into it not etched ..... the one side is hard to see I know as the rust fills it in and these pictures really are not the best just my iphone..... but it's obviously not a #1 and not a L as that would have put it after the 1950's and the old style was long gone. I know the wiki says that "I" was not used in any Military issued model old style but is there any other possibilities ? I am sure these are stamped in not after market or scratches. see photo's below for 1918 and 1917 military. BTW my great great grandfather did serve in the Army in WW1 and this was his.

View attachment 356490

 

[MacDaddy]

Yes you are right after more research the diamond logo was not that early.... they were scripted not diamond logo's...... the handle is questionable as I see the same handle on mr-razor but in single or double ring so why not ball end ? that is a actual question not a confrontational statement.

They didn't make the ball-end handles until the mid 1910s, so simply the fact that it's a ball-end handle rules it out from being any earlier than that. From the profile of the head, though, you can tell it's a later 1921-29 model with the thicker cap and guard plate. That also matches just fine with it not having a serial number.

also this is why I thought it was a military issue look at the photo's here. Finally I strongly disagree those marks happened after the factory..... they are not scratches ..... I would believe this if it was on one side but they are on both sides in the exact same place I even measured the distance these are stamped into it not etched ..... the one side is hard to see I know as the rust fills it in and these pictures really are not the best just my iphone..... but it's obviously not a #1 and not a L as that would have put it after the 1950's and the old style was long gone. I know the wiki says that "I" was not used in any Military issued model old style but is there any other possibilities ? I am sure these are stamped in not after market or scratches.

I would have to take your word on that. The photos look more like wear marks to me, too -- maybe from an aftermarket shim, or something like that, which would account for their spacing. They're also not in a location that Gillette ever used to stamp anything that I've ever seen. But maybe better photos would help some if you were able to get some.

BTW, the wiki doesn't say that "I" wasn't used on any military razors -- it wasn't used on any razors. They skipped it, presumably because it could be easily mistaken for a 1.

 

[Aschecte]

They didn't make the ball-end handles until the mid 1910s, so simply the fact that it's a ball-end handle rules it out from being any earlier than that. From the profile of the head, though, you can tell it's a later 1921-29 model with the thicker cap and guard plate. That also matches just fine with it not having a serial number.



I would have to take your word on that. The photos look more like wear marks to me, too -- maybe from an aftermarket shim, or something like that, which would account for their spacing. They're also not in a location that Gillette ever used to stamp anything that I've ever seen. But maybe better photos would help some if you were able to get some.

BTW, the wiki doesn't say that "I" wasn't used on any military razors -- it wasn't used on any razors. They skipped it, presumably because it could be easily mistaken for a 1.

I agree 100% I am not arguing at all.... I just am positive that it is a #1 or similar vertical notch that is stamped because I can see the press marks where it was stamped in..... I also think it is newer than 1904 as the head looks more to me like a 102A with that thicker cap....... and I agree the ball end came later after the dbl and single rings...... so please don't misunderstand my questioning as arguing.... you are way more knowledgeable than I or this post would not have been made. I also did know and should have said "I " was never used that is what is really throwing me off here ...... I am going to clean this razor tonight and polish it the best I can..... use my wife's SLR and get a better photo either tonight or tomorrow ....... I do not believe it to be a shim mark as it is to deep for one and it is clearly pressed by machine..... now above that line I am in complete agreement it is scratched / gouged but this vertical line is on both sides at the same height and distance from both end and bullet retainers so it appears to me to be machined. Any ways I thank you for helping me out and maybe we can figure out what if anything these represent...... hey worst case it's a 1921-29 ball end old type right ? still pretty goo in my book and f course it has my family history behind it and I would have it refinished. Thanks again !!!!