Need some advice (or The Prodigal Shaver)

[JPDyson]

I apologize - this might go a tad long. I do respect your time and appreciate your input, so if you choose to read this, thank you in advance. I humbly request guidance going forward with straight razor shaving all over again.

For some of you who know the story, after getting some DE technique under my belt, I decided to give straight razor shaving a try. I ended up jumping into the deep end, buying a Dovo Special and a vintage Wostenholm, a Tony Miller strop, and a set of Spyderco hones (edit: forgot to mention, a Swaty as well). I had a couple of successful shaves, one glaring misstep, and some real frustration in keeping an edge sharp. When I ran into problems and couldn't seem to figure out how to solve them, I threw in the towel and sold it all off. Looking back, I'm pretty miffed about that - it was a really nice Wosty, and those Tony Miller strops are only getting rarer. If I had a little patience, I would probably be loving the heck out of that gear. But I digress.

I recently bought a KAI Captain (cousin to the Feather Artist Club) replaceable blade straight razor. I've been really enjoying the shaves, and have bypassed all of the drama of keeping it sharp. I'm actually getting better 1-pass shaves with less irritation with the KAI than I get with any of my DE's and SE's. I attribute that to the virtue of the unguarded razor, skin stretching, and general approach to shaving that straight razors require. Even my difficult neck area feels better after just a handful of shaves with the Captain. In short, I think the beginnings of straight razor technique are starting to become more clear.

At this point, I'm considering moving forward, but I'm not sure what the best next step would be. The thing is, I'm getting decent enough shaves out of my Captain, so I feel like I could probably get to that same point with a proper straight razor that has been professionally honed. My concerns are with honing and stropping.

Perhaps what is best is for me to see if I can't get the hang of honing and stropping first. That's where the advice kicks in.

1. Reality Check - does that even make sense? Should I turn my attention to honing and stropping now? Or should I get a proper straight and rely on the pro's to hone it? I'd still be suspect of my stropping skills.

2. Let's say this plan passes the looks-right test. What gear should I be looking at? I imagine a straight razor in need of some love, a set of hones, and a strop. I'd appreciate guidance here toward gear that will get me started and yet will last as my skills develop. Things like the Norton 4k/8k interest me, as well as RupRazor or Straight Razor Designs strops.

As an aside, I've been watching a honing instructional video (all the way through the double-bevel segment, video 8 I think) and wanted your opinions on that, inasmuch as it directs a newbie toward good honing practice and testing your progress. Are there other good video's? I've also read through Joel's guide, and there seems to be some consistency in approach (if not in product selection).

Again, thank you to anybody who takes the time to read this and offer advice.

 

[Seraphim]

I've been hooked on my KAI Excella the past three weeks or so, fantastically close (maybe too close!) shaver.

I traditional staright should be able to be fine tuned to a honing finish that will give comfortable shaves time after time. Stropping plays an integral part in that (as opposed to the ~7-10 uses out of a disposable Feather blade). Really, with stropping an edge should last (for me anyhow) at least 20-30 shaves before requiring any sort of tune up. Perhaps even longer than that.

I guess what I'm saying is that don't worry about the honing up front. Get a truly shave ready straight to begin with, and it should be over a month before you'd need to worry about even touching it up. My opinion on the best touch-up? A hanging strop, either leather or cloth with some chromox on there. A few laps on there should get things back in the pink in no time. Cheap, efficient, and without all the hoo-haa that comes with honing (which hones?, how?, who? , what?, when? where?, why? etc...)

So, I've never tried a RupRazor strop, or how his honing actually performs (I've heard mostly good things, though), but I can say that the Gold Dollar razors are completely capable of achieving a very nice shaving edge that does hold up as well as most any other razor out there (see my review for empirical evidence). His Filly strop also comes with chromox on the backside, which should take care of the touch-ups as outlined above.

LarryAndro is another who specializes in shave ready bargain straights that get alot of love around here. Get one of those and a strop from RupRazor and you'll be stylin' as well.

Both are economical avenues to get back into traditional straights since you are unsure if that's the direction you really want to take.

Give it a go!

 

[michiganlover]

To play devil's advocate here, there is absolutely nothing wrong with continuing to use your Kai Captain, and not worrying about the maintenance of a real straight.

If the maintenance was a huge turn off the first time around, maybe you can avoid a lot of frustration if you just continue to practice with your Kai Captain, and get better, and better shaves with it.

 

[JPDyson]

To play devil's advocate here, there is absolutely nothing wrong with continuing to use your Kai Captain, and not worrying about the maintenance of a real straight.

If the maintenance was a huge turn off the first time around, maybe you can avoid a lot of frustration if you just continue to practice with your Kai Captain, and get better, and better shaves with it.

A totally valid point; it's more of an ideal with a "proper" straight, if I'm perfectly honest. I believe there's nothing wrong with the Captain. I love the idea of a traditional straight, and if that's possible for me, I'd like to get there - using and maintaining.

Thanks to Seraphim as well for some solid pointers. I've heard about the Gold Dollar, and if I can trust that a good edge is on there to start, I agree with you advice. Speaking of Larry, he sold me my Wostenholm. A true gentleman, that Larry.

I would love to hear others' as well.

 

[Klarion]

Well, if you get into traditional straights you'll get to submerse yourself into the whole "culture". I mean, that Kai won't allow you to sample the wonderful strops created by our "local" artisans. Like you, I've got a Tony Miller (or two), then subsequently purchased from Ambrose and screaming_pig. I'm thoroughly impressed with the product - one ox leather, one horse. Two different flavors and two different builds.

If you get a straight, you'll be able to sample the different edges our honemeisters have to offer, in terms of comfort and sharpness, finding what's just right for you. Maybe what's great for you in the beginning will change later on in the game, when you've tacked on the experience. Same goes for grinds in razors: wedge, 1/4 hollow, half hollow, 3/4 holllow, full hollow, singing blades..... there's a great deal out there to explore.

The thought didn't cross your mind to only stick to a single brush did it?

A totally valid point; it's more of an ideal with a "proper" straight, if I'm perfectly honest. I believe there's nothing wrong with the Captain. I love the idea of a traditional straight, and if that's possible for me, I'd like to get there - using and maintaining.

Thanks to Seraphim as well for some solid pointers. I've heard about the Gold Dollar, and if I can trust that a good edge is on there to start, I agree with you advice. Speaking of Larry, he sold me my Wostenholm. A true gentleman, that Larry.

I would love to hear others' as well.

 

[GreekGuy]

While I don't have that many posts, I've been straight shaving for about a year. So I'll throw in my 2 cents and you can take it with a grain of salt.

I asked myself this question when I first began. Honing and stropping can seem like a major pain, that has a steep learning curve. But if you've thrown the aerosol can and M3 away, you've shown the determination needed to overcome those obstacles.

I started with a gold dollar and filly strop for $60. It was honed and introduced me to straights without spending $300 to get started. I used it with CrOx stropping for 6 months till it took a tragic fall, losing about an inch of the blade. Thats when I began hitting antique shops and looking for a new razor.

I bought a barbers hone for $15 which I used to bring a dull edge on a Fredrick Reynolds to crazy sharp. It took a long time, but it was an inexpensive purchase that works. If you're a professional, or your time is very valuable, then you can go the multiple stone route. But as long as the bevel is already set, a barbers hone should be all that you need in addition to a pasted strop to maintain your razor for a long long time. I'm a DIY type guy, I think most people here are, so I didn't mind spending the time to learn how to hone and to do the hundreds of passes needed.

Theres nothing wrong with using disposable blades. That said, I think that using a 1 piece razor has a certain satisfaction to it. Its completely up to you. As far as if it provides a better shave, I can't say because I haven't used a disposable straight, only a DE, which while good isn't quite up to par with the straight.

Moral of the story, you can get an honed ready straight for $30 or less from Larry at whippeddog.com . Or you can go the gold dollar filly route. They really aren't bad razors, it got me started on the cheap. I think a barbers hone is all you absolutely need for an effective minimalist setup. I understand the use of a set of stones, but for my needs and budget the barbers hone does everything I need. Keep in mind, thats what barbers used for a long, long time once the razors were honed.

These methods will take longer than using a disposable, but I think it can be done for little out of pocket cash and you can become self sufficient with a little research and practice.

Hope this helps

 

[Seraphim]

And remember, as the Prodigal Shaver, upon your return home they will kill the fatted calf, and soon thereafter render the tallow for soap, and cut the hide into nice strops of bridle leather, etc, etc.....

 

[JPDyson]

Thanks for the input so far guys. I've probably got a budget of $200 for this, though I feel no need to spend it all up front. That gets me either a Gold Dollar and a Filly or a nicer Dovo and SRD 3" strop of my choice. I'm leaning towards the latter, because I want something that'll grow with me, but at the same time, I have less to lose in the former. I will say that between my old Dovo and Wostenholm, I dramatically preferred the Wostenholm. It was a beefier grind, and it seemed to shave with a lot less fuss. That has me eyeing Larry's thicker vintage stock.

Keep the advice coming, gents. I'm all ears

 

[Joe Edson]

I started recently with a couple of vintage razor purchases from eBay (look very closely at the pics and edge, look for no rust, good scales, etc.). I ended up with a Henckels and Wostenholm and sent them to ambrose who did a basic cleanup and hone for a very reasonable amount (Also sent two others for more of a restore, but totally not necessary). I bought both of the razors on eBay for basically $10-15 each. If you just wanted one razor to start I would look for a vintage sheffield/solingen 5/8 or 6/8 round point (my henckels is a spike point and let's just say I switched fast to my wosty that is a round point) and send that to a hone master for a quick cleanup and hone.

I have the ruprazor filly which cost all of $20, and it has CrOx paste on the reverse side for when your razor needs a touch-up. Realistically this is all you really need to get started and keep your edge going for months. Add in a barber's hone and that is basically all you would need from a minimalist standpoint forever (before the advent of forums, I'm sure this is how most straight shavors got by for years). You could also buy a chinese 12K to use as a barbers hone from our famous polish seller on eBay that is lapped for about $25 shipped (I got one that also came with a slurry stone). Swaty's also seem popular.

Should be mentioned though, that I'm only in my first week of straights so take this all with a grain of salt. Definitely start with the ruprazor strop or there is one on eBay that is getting good reviews here that costs $25 (startshavingsupplies I think is the seller). I've already nicked the ruprazor up with my poor stropping and am glad I have that before trying it out on something more valuable to you.

 

[michiganlover]

or there is one on eBay that is getting good reviews here that costs $25 (startshavingsupplies I think is the seller). I've already nicked the ruprazor up with my poor stropping and am glad I have that before trying it out on something more valuable to you.

The strop from starshavingsupplies is a great value for $25 shipped. It's quite long (28"), 2.5 inches wide, and has a linen component to boot. I have the 3" wide version, and couldn't be happier with it.

Here are links to the two strops on Ebay:

Star Shaving Supplies 2.5 inch wide "Big Mamma" strop. $25 shipped.

Star Shaving Supplies 3 inch wide "Big Daddy" strop. $30 shipped.

 

[Defend Tacoma]

I have been shaving with a straight razor for a month now, although it sounds like you had a heck of a time with it before, I sense some gritty determination in ya. Shaving with a straight is an absolute blast once you get into the swing of things. You have gotten some wonderful advice already, I just wanted to drop in my $.02 worth of encouragement!

 

[taffy]

I think most folks, if honest, will say that thier stropping technique was poor first off, mine certainly was, though its practise, practise, practise, i was quite happy when i started off just to buy a straight or 2, send them out for honing, and leave it as that, then i fancied a go of honing, and bought some stones, though i will say, like you experianced, i got my razors back from honing and struggled big time with keeping them sharp, and, again, like you, was going to throw the towel in, but i upgraded my strop, kept going, and finally got the stropping right, however you plan to play it, be it buy a junker to practise your stropping, or get some stones, keep going, it will come to you!

 

[JPDyson]

Well, I sold my PILS to fund this endeavor, and in return got a Thiers-Issard Sheffield Silver Steel 5/8 razor with Olivewood handles, Extra-Hollow "singing" razor. Even got a little cash for a strop. Hey, Ambrose...

 

[Seraphim]

Well, I sold my PILS to fund this endeavor, and in return got a Thiers-Issard Sheffield Silver Steel 5/8 razor with Olivewood handles, Extra-Hollow "singing" razor. Even got a little cash for a strop. Hey, Ambrose...

So much for the economy route!

Well done!

 

[Joe Edson]

Well, I sold my PILS to fund this endeavor, and in return got a Thiers-Issard Sheffield Silver Steel 5/8 razor with Olivewood handles, Extra-Hollow "singing" razor. Even got a little cash for a strop. Hey, Ambrose...

I have an ambrose strop, but haven't used it yet. It is a piece of beauty, but I would strongly advice you get a cheap Ruprazor or the one from eBay for your first strop. My Filly already has a few nicks in it from improper stropping and I would have hated to do that to my Ambrose.

 

[JPDyson]

I have an ambrose strop, but haven't used it yet. It is a piece of beauty, but I would strongly advice you get a cheap Ruprazor or the one from eBay for your first strop. My Filly already has a few nicks in it from improper stropping and I would have hated to do that to my Ambrose.

Proper advice; I had a Tony Miller & the practice strop that came with it, so I have a little practice. I am considering the Filly though - tough not to take that $20 insurance.

 

[JPDyson]

So much for the economy route!

Well done!

Yeah, but this is the same sucker who paid over $200 for a stainless steel DE

 

[Joe Edson]

Yeah, but this is the same sucker who paid over $200 for a stainless steel DE

Albeit, from the reviews a DE that has cured many people of RAD. I would love to get one myself, but just find straights calling my name more. My DE collection is rapidly vanishing, while my straights to be restored and honed is rapidly increasing

 

[closer]

I would suggest you consider buying 2 straight razors. Buy a cheap but shave ready one - options are BST, LarryAndro, GoldDollar from Kenrup, etc. In addition, buy a nicer TI/Dovo from a reputed hone expert - SRD and others. Both razors will come shave ready, so you will be able to use them from the get go. Get a starter strop such as RupRazor Filly, you *will* nick it. The ebay strop mentioned earlier in this thread looks very interesting, it has a felt component as well. Attempt to maintain the razors with the strop, and do *very light* passes on the CrOx side when needed. When you can't bring the edge back, send the razors out for honing.

When you decide to buy a hone, experiment with the cheaper razor first. Don't forget to factor in the cost of a lapping plate once you decide to buy a hone. Since you mentioned a budget, you might want to consider a paddle strop with pastes - a decent set of hones and lapping plate will blow your current budget all by itself.

The good news is you've figured out how to shave with the Kai. Now, learning to keep a straight sharp is a different ballgame, and you can work on that. I was not able to accomplish both at the same time, so am working on the "keeping it sharp" part as well.

 

[Luc]

Good to see that you are coming back to straight razors.

My advice, stick with shaving and stropping for now. Skip honing... It's possible that your barber hone wasn't flat completely. I got that recently. I did it myself and was sure it was, sent it to my local honemeister to be sure, apparently it wasn't. It was close but it wasn't...