Need help with BBS (is it possible with a heavy beard?)

[Eben Stone]

Try this:
Apply hot flannel to stubble followed by Face Wash/Scrub, then pre-have oil, then lather soap or cream. Mild razor. 1st pass ATG, 2nd pass XTG with a couple of shims underneath blade in razor. 3rd pass, hot flannel pressed against neck area before re-lathering, add another shim. Shave lightly WTG. This will give you BBS

(I make my own shims out of pieces of plastic and range in thicknesses from 0.19mm,0.55mm to 0.77mm and use only one in razor at a time. Even a half shim -see photo,' which can be useful, if you don't want to keep changing shim)

It's taken me a long long time to arrive at this formula having found that even the most aggressive razors like the R41 loaded with say a Feather blade, still skips stubble especially around the lower jaw/neck area

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Thanks for the idea. I'm curious if adding shims accomplishes the same physical tweaking of the blade as an adjustable?

 

[Mitzie]

Thanks for the idea. I'm curious if adding shims accomplishes the same physical tweaking of the blade as an adjustable?

Yes, I'm sure an adjustable will. However I tend to shoot for perfection, in particular shaving those tough whiskers at the base of the nose. Adjustable razors have larger top caps and can be awkward at shaving these whiskers easily. (See other Forum posts about this, from users of adjustables) My two homemade plastic shims, made from empty food containers measure 0.55mm for the 2nd XTG pass, and 0.77mm for the WTG pass in thickness -just shave gently and carefully with a light touch. Personally, it's taken me a long. long, long time to arrive at this shaving routine which gives me consistent BBS without nicks and cuts or any irritation.

 

[Cracker]

I think there are some problems:
1. Using a quite dull blade with a wire like stubble is not a good idea. Then also a R41 can't do anything. Use a Feather or Kai. Of course, good prep is still a necessity.
2. Angle is key. You don't have a pivoting head, no frame for angle and to control / reduce pressure on the edge, and only one blade that has to catch the whisker at the first try the right way (angle).
3. If the angle is not right, most people will use more (aka too much) pressure automaticalliy without noticing it. With pressure a blade can't cut right.

It is possible, that the R41 feels too agressive what can lead to an angle change which makes the shave more mild but at the same time prohibits the blade to cut correctly.

So, I think these are the key things to work on.

 

[BradWorld]

I have a very fine beard that grows in a swirl pattern along the underside of the jaw lines, and swirls in spots around the Adam’s apple. So I can get a bbs result everywhere but those trouble spots on a regular basis. But to get a true bbs all over that can pass the cotton ball test, I need to get lucky, and all the stars must align. I have not yet found the magic combination of hardware and technique to make a bbs happen with any regularity. So for me, the bbs is very special, and when it rarely does occurs, it is so much more enjoyable. I used to be jealous of people that got regular bbs. But it’s like people that live in San Diego can’t appreciate their amazing weather a much as someone that lives through the harsh winters every year. Because of its rarity, it is so much more special when a bbs does occur. Now I have been able to refine hardware and technique over the years, so I have been able to increase the chances for a bbs. But I have never gotten to the point where I have a sure fire formula for bbs. When I do get a true BBS, I can repeat those exact same steps, same hardware, same software, same technique... and most likely won’t get a repeat BBS. But it’s all good. I am quite content getting a high grade DFS+ result, and getting that occasional BBS.

 

[BigJ]

Some great advice above!

I especially endorse the suggestion that you work to improve your prep. Also, the suggestion that you try some sharp blades is likely worthwhile.

In addition, mapping your beard is worthwhile to better understand what you are doing with each pass.

 

[stoof2010]

Sorry if this was already suggested, but I had issues with my jawline when I started. The whole curve from cheek to my neck was hard to navigate.
So I eliminated the curve. I shaved down my cheek to the jawline. Then I pressed skin above jawline where I just shaved and pulled up well kinda moving my head down the opposite way. This took the skin around the curve and brought it up to side of my jaw.
This made that area "flat" on the side of my face. Then I shaved that little area and let go. Then that whole area that curves around jaw to neck was done.
I hope this makes sense.
I know others mentioned stretching which this is but it's also taking the skin that curves and making it flat.
I don't know if your skin will stretch like mine but it works great for jaw line.
Again I hope I explained that right.

 

[aldomarino]

The most important thing about getting a really close shave with a thick beard (or probably any beard) is patience. Most people can get an acceptable shave in a minute or two.
A really good close shave takes a LOT longer.

 

[stoof2010]

Also, I remember you told me in the PIF you have the r41 and the boker.
Is the boker less aggressive than your r41?
Here's the reason I ask.
I use adjustables in my rotation.
Common thought is to step down aggression with each pass on the adjustable.
I actually found doing the opposite works great.
If on a Gillette slim I'll do first pass on setting 5. 2nd on setting 7 and third on setting 9.
Or if using my progress on 1-2 for 1st, 3-4 on 2nd and 5 on third.
The reason I mention this isn't to tell you to get an adjustable. But if one of your razors is less aggressive, try using that for first and second pass and r41 on third.
Or if doing 2 pass the boker on first and r41 on second.
My line of thinking is that cutting longer hairs on pass one is easier. The shorter the hair gets them more force in needed to slice it. So you having issues with the r41 because of technique might be burning you before you get to final pass.
Just an idea.
I figure this out much like I'm using your two razors as an example.
Years ago there was a thread about changing razors each pass.
One day I went opposite what the "common knowledge" of starting aggressive then going mild and it worked awesome!!!
Mind you I only had 1-2 days growth.
1st pass was a 40s superspeed (mild)
2nd was ej89 (mild-mid)
3rd pass was r41

Don't know why it worked and my only theory is what I listed above and that my technique wasn't great and using the aggressive on last pass which takes most cutting power instead of the whole time where I was probably irritating with multiple passes on aggressive razor with bad technique.

I have no idea if this will help or if your boker us less aggressive (if not this is pointless for me to tell you lol) but may as well try it if you're looking for answers.
YMMV.
(But if you ever get an adjustable I suggest you try this at least once)

Edit: also, if you aren't already doing this, start on the top cap and tilt down to blade when cutting (steep angle) rather than starting at bar and tilting up (shallow angle)

 

[hcoop112]

I find that once i finish the shave ...moisturiser really makes a huge difference....but the problem will be it will make your face softer ...something like nivea soft (cheaper works well) or body shop ( a little more expensive) also i will add some body shop creams are moisture intensive and are amazing ...others are not so and wont offer alot much moisture..)

 

[Eben Stone]

I just wanted to say thank you to everyone that's taken the time to respond and offer suggestions.

I have read each reply multiple times and using everyone's suggestions to improve my technique. I still have not achieved a true BBS but I feel like I'm improving my technique every day. More prep, stretching, and better angle, has definately improved my shaves, I'm consistently getting smoother closer shaves with less effort.

I have a lot of different blades to try. My current favorite is the Dorco ST301. I'm sure there are better blades (more suitable for my beard type + R41) so it will be an interesting research project.

 

[Eben Stone]

... give a Feather AS-D2 a go. If you are a daily shaver, you'll love this thing.

My stubble is like copper wire and I can attest AS-D2 gives me glass-smooth BBS, just as my R41, nonetheless without having to be careful. Sometimes I value this comfort.

Which blade(s)? I assume that razor is optimized for a Feather blade? If that's true the cost per shave for me will be 2x the price of mach3 cartridges, because Feathers last me 2 shaves (at least with my R41). I was hoping to reduce my costs, compared to cartridge, but I'm willing to pay more if the results are truly awesome.