Need Help Understanding the pH of Soaps & Water

[PottyDoctor]

Since my return to wetshaving about a year ago, I have discovered the skin on my face is very sensitive to several of the shave products I have tried. I cannot use anything with menthol and there are other products that cause irritation which I have been unable to pinpoint the ingredient(s) responsible for the irritation.

A very knowledgable wetshaver gave the following information which I have been contemplating concerning shaving product irritation:

Sometimes the problem does not relate to an essential oil (or some other ingredient), sometimes it relates to the Ph. This means even your tap water could be at least a partial cause for irritation.

I know that many here have advised using distilled water [which I understand to have a neutral pH of 7] to improve lather quality but I am now wondering if I shouldn't try some distilled water to see if those shave creams which have the least irritation show some improvement. I must admit I don't entirely understand pH, but I know there are many here who have the knowledge to elaborate on how the pH of certain soaps and creams, combined with the pH of tap water effects what I will call the "irritation factor" of the end product...the lather.

FYI:
Creams/Soaps that DON'T produce irritation: Taylor Almond, Taylor Rose [old formula], Coates Rose, Trumper Rose, Trumper Violet, D.R. Harris Lavender, Nancy Boy, Palmolive.
Creams/Soaps that DO produce irritation: Taylor Sandalwood, Taylor Avocado, C&E Almond, Proraso, Body Shop, Coates Tea Tree, several QED soaps.

 

[Kyle]

Very interesting, Ron. Tap water is certainly not something that one would initially consider as a potential irritant (or contributor). You may be able to save your face a little bit of pain by first testing the Ph of your tap water. If it is neutral or basic, then you don't need to do the lather & shave tests.

 

[PottyDoctor]

Very interesting, Ron. Tap water is certainly not something that one would initially consider as a potential irritant (or contributor). You may be able to save your face a little bit of pain by first testing the Ph of your tap water. If it is neutral or basic, then you don't need to do the lather & shave tests.

Another thing that makes me wonder about the tap water is that it contains so much chlorine and possibly some other additives. If this pH theory is true then it would be possible for a cream not to produce irritation but when combined with the water, it raises or lowers the pH just enough to cause irritation. It certainly seems like a possibility and something to consider.

P.S. I don't have any way of testing the pH of my tap water.

 

[guenron]

Another thing that makes me wonder about the tap water is that it contains so much chlorine and possibly some other additives. If this pH theory is true then it would be possible for a cream not to produce irritation but when combined with the water, it raises or lowers the pH just enough to cause irritation. It certainly seems like a possibility and something to consider.

P.S. I don't have any way of testing the pH of my tap water.

Ron,
If you have a county agent nearby, they should be able to point you towards an outset that sells litmus or some other indicator test strips. The litmus will give you an indication of acid or base by turning pink or blue. Some of the other indicators acutally give you the range, but typically for tap water you need to do a litmus titration (lab procedure) where you can determine the pH or pOH..

 

[Kyle]

Another thing that makes me wonder about the tap water is that it contains so much chlorine and possibly some other additives. If this pH theory is true then it would be possible for a cream not to produce irritation but when combined with the water, it raises or lowers the pH just enough to cause irritation. It certainly seems like a possibility and something to consider.

P.S. I don't have any way of testing the pH of my tap water.

Speaking of chlorine, I used to buy litmus paper at our swimming pool supply store.

 

[ouch]

You can get a cheap pH kit in any pet store.

 

[Dennis]

pH kits are available at any pet store or in the pool section of most retail stores. You only get info about the pH though. If you live in the "country" call your county about well water testing - you get a very detailed report. You can also contact any company that sells softener products or filtration and I bet they can do some basic testing on water samples as well like pH, hardness and mineral content. -- Dennis

 

[woodbane]

As the keeper of tropical fish I can tell you that water quality can have a tremendous effect on being a successful or unsuccessful keeper of fish.

You can indeed pick up a water test kit at your local pet store in the aquarium section. A good one will give you a lot more information than just pH. It should also test for the level of nitrite and nitrate, ammonia, pH and some now do the hardness/softness of the water as well.

There are 2 basic types of kit:

Reagent kits come with dropper bottles and test tubes that you mix the reagent and the water sample in and then match the resulting color to a color chart to get a reading.

Dip-stick tests are much quicker and easier but not always quite as accurate. You just dip the card in the water, it will have several colored squares on it that all detect different things in the water. Then it's the same deal with comparing to a color card.

I think you'll find these do the job nicely.

Hope that helps.

 

[jmhUT]

You can get pool test strips (dip sticks) at Home Depot also. They will give you the range as well as the indication of an acid or base. They are quite accurate also. Tap water should not by itself raise or lower PH or alkalinity. Chlorine does not impact this either. What your tap water may contain to your lathering detriment is an overabundance of minerals, most likely calcium. This is what causes hard water and what people use distilled water and soft water systems to avoid. If you have reddish/orangish buildups anywhere in your bathroom then you have hardwater caused by calcium. I don't think PH is your contributing issue. I have the same problem with menthol too.
Cheers,
Jeff

 

[jmhUT]

You can get pool test strips (dip sticks) at Home Depot also. They will give you the range as well as the indication of an acid or base. They are quite accurate also. Tap water should not by itself raise or lower PH or alkalinity. Chlorine does not impact this either. What your tap water may contain to your lathering detriment is an overabundance of minerals, most likely calcium. This is what causes hard water and what people use distilled water and soft water systems to avoid. If you have reddish/orangish buildups anywhere in your bathroom then you have hardwater caused by calcium. I don't think PH is your contributing issue. I have the same problem with menthol too.
Cheers,
Jeff

Also, whereas the cholrine will not change your PH it will most certainly irritate your skin in higher concentrations. Chlroine is a disinfectant the same as alcohol and we all know what it does to skin. If you notice your face is dry after washing it (even with a moisturizing soap) you likely have high chlorine. High chlorine concentrations tend to accompany hard water too.

Here in Phoenix the water is borderline undrinkable. I tried using distilled water to make better lather and did not notice a meaningful improvement. I did not, however, actually shave with that lather. I didn't consider the irritation potential, I was just looking for better lather. I'm glad this came up.
Cheers,
Jeff

 

[EL Alamein]

So does anyone know a good way to reduce the ph of water before making a lather? Or effectively reduce the ph of the lather without interfering with the quality of it?

 

[jmhUT]

There is only one way I know of to reduce PH, muriatic (aka hydrochloric) acid. I would not, under any circumstances, recommend this. The PH would have to be extremely high in order to cause skin irritiation. I would be surprised if anybody's tap water was off of neutral by an meaningful amount. The chlorine and mineral content are likely to be worse offenders anyway. Both can be helped to some degree by a Brita style filter. In this case, if your water is that hard (mine is) the ideal solution is a water softener. If you live in an apartment this isn't an option. If you live in a house this is a $400-$500 investment IF you have a loop on your water heater. If not, you're looking at ~$1,200. I paid the $1,200 and am pleased with the results. The water is still hard, and I get that "slick" feeling getting out of the shower but the benefits are much more tangible.
Cheers,
Jeff

 

[woodbane]

The water is still hard, and I get that "slick" feeling getting out of the shower but the benefits are much more tangible.
Cheers,
Jeff

I thought that 'slick' feeling was caused by water being too soft? My understanding of this is that the salts used to soften the water cause this slickness. Hard water causes that 'chattering' feeling when you're wiping water off your skin.

What made me think of this is my parents house. They used to have hard water there, causing the 'chattering' and also soaps were very hard to lather. They installed a water softener and now (IMHO) they've gone too far the other way. When you shower you feel like you still have soap on you even when you don't. However, it sure makes soaps go a long way as you don't need to use hardly any!

 

[jmhUT]

Hi Andy,
You are correct, the salts cause the slick feeling. My wording could have been more clear but what I was trying to point out was the con of using a water softener. In my area, the water is so hard that even with a softener it is still pretty hard. In addition, I get the slick feeling now having added the softener. I felt this was important to point out since many people are quite put off by the slick feeling. I myself got used to it pretty quickly. It helps a great deal with lathering as you said, and it doesn't take me nearly as long to clean the bathroom since I don't have the same calcium buildup problem.
Ultimately this boils down to personal preference. As far as shaving goes, the slickness helps me in that it creates a surface that is...well....slick.

Also, in an earlier post I claimed that muriatic acid is aka hydrochloric acid. This was a bit of an overstatement. Muriatic acid is weaker than hydrochloric acid. Still, it's acid. Don't use it.
Cheers,
Jeff

 

[tam.audio]

I can't see how anyone would rather have hard water over softened water. After a shower in hard water I just don't feel clean compared to a shower in softened water.

 

[jmhUT]

Hi Kyle, I'm with you. I've found that many despise the slick, oily feeling the salt leaves behind though. I've had showers with and without soft water in areas with high water quality like SF. In the RARE case that the local water is nice I prefer to go without the salt. After extensive travel SF is the only place I can recall where that is true though. Our members that have the luxury of good water will likely disagree with our preference.
Cheers,
Jeff