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Need advice with Mp3 players

Evening gents. I need some advice about digital music players. Of course the current status symbol is a high capacity iPod but it would seem there are other choices to be had. Now I'm going to add in some caveats here and there that will hopefully shed light on what may be a good device for me.

First up, I'm no music hog. The idea of even sifting through 5000 songs is mind boggling. Even if you order and playlist them. Can you tell I'm very green with this whole digital music thing? I will likely won't be downloading any music from the online stores. I'm way past most of that. I will be arhciving my cds, transferring some vinyl to digital(whole other subject), and just loading up whatever takes my fancy. In other words, music from my own collection.

Some questions come to mind. I've recently discovered podcasting(I told you I'm not hip)and recognise that even in Mp3 format, a 20-30 minute program would eat a lot of storage space. So storage as always could become an issue.

Formats. Okay, here we go into territory I'm very unused to. Everyone recognises the mp3 file but what about Mp4(AAC?)that Apple uses? Is this useful for other branded players at all? OGG, FLAC, all this gets a bit overwhelming.

Players and devices. Of course the Windows Media Player 10 is on my pc but 11 is around the corner and I'd like your opinions on these software players. One that looks really interesting that I wanted to try is Media Player Classic. This is an open source player that mimics the look of WMP 6.4 but is much more feature laden and supports TONS of formats including AAC. I downloaded this to my desktop in a zip file but when I opened it, it didn't install to the pc. I tried directing it to programs. I think that's the right thing to do. Anyway, it didn't show up in the programs menu or add/remove programs in control panel so I gave up. If someone would give me some advice about installing this I'd really appreciate it. I am not overfond of WMP10 because it's not very intuitive.

Last, devices. I intentionally left this til last because it's really a tough choice and much of the pro/con toward iPod vs everything else is really just user preference. Saying that I will tell you that for hardware, I'm leaning toward flash memory rather than hard drive models. Two reasons. First, I'm not sure how they'd hold up against work environments and an elliptical trainer's motion. Second, the flash players are so thin. Very easy to carry. One last wrench to throw in this. Are any of the better brands of players still coming with expansion card slots? I just bought two 1Gig SD cards(Sandisk)from Best Buy for $24 apiece after rebate. Can you say cheap storage? It's a nice way to gain storage without forking over 200-300 dollars for a big flash memory player. I have looked at Creative players on their site and must say, they make some nice players. Heck, I've even looked at the little 1Gig Creative player Walmart sells for $70. It even includes a FM reciever. Please fire away with ideas.

Regards,Todd
 
Something to consider is the restrictions that the various players inflict on you:

I currently use an iPod mini, the 4G one, and my next player will not be an iPod. I like my iPod a lot, and I like iTunes a lot, they both work great and integrate well with my Mac and my Windows machines (my linux machine, not so much). And as long as you only use iTunes or rip CDs you're golden, you have a really slick setup that works really well. Even a lot of music can be easily sorted by genre, artist, and album. What I don't like is iTunes, specifically its DRM (Digital Rights Management), and if you don't like iTunes it's kind of pointless to own an iPod.

The problem is I have other devices I play my music on, mainly an XBox that I modded and use as a media center (which is fantastic and highly recommended). To play iTunes music elsewhere I have to burn the songs to disk and then rip it. That's a pain in the butt, plus it degrades the sound quality. And since I paid for that music it really bothers me that I have to jump through hoops to use it like I want. As an add-on the quality of iTunes music isn't as nice as I'd like.

I now get nearly all of my music from eMusic.com, it's not protected and it's a decent bitrate. I can play it wherever I want and it's pretty cheap. It suits me because I listen to jazz and classical, and they have huge amounts of both, others might not like it so much.

Though at first I only played .mp3 and .aac files I now also have a growing number of albums ripped to formats that my iPod won't touch, like .flac (lossless) and a few .wma files. So my next player will be more "free" to let me play all my music like I want. Not like they want me to.

The more I think about it DRM just makes me feel manipulated and controlled. And all the people who steal music can use it like they want, because their music has no DRM.
 
Apple has always been a fan of oddball formats, much like how Microsoft is about WMA.

If you want a player that you are assured you can find any accessory under the sun for, as well as slick integration with those accessories, go for an Ipod. My mom recently got a Nano from her boyfriend for Christmas, so for her birthday I bought her an MTX "boombox" module for use with it...just slide it into the cradle, and you now have an ipod boombox (ghetto blaster style), with a full-function remote control. That's where Ipods excel.

If you just want something that works, there are tons of options. MP3 right now is the single most popular standard (and the one I use personally). So I'll elaborate on MP3.

First off, MP3 is NOT CD-quality sound. It may come close when using 320kbps for your files, but not even close to CD-quality at 128kbps. If you are any degree of an audiophile, I would reccomend 192kbps for all of your tracks as a good blend of compression/performance. Keep in mind if you use MP4, WMA, or OGG (another format that only a handful of players support), those have different ideal bitrates.

I'm a fan of Creative Labs players (Nomad) myself. They tend to have good sound quality, sturdy players, and they have massive amounts of battery life. My Nomad Zen Touch gets around 20 hours on a full charge, and holds 20gb of music (that's over 200 CDs at 192kbps). My Nomad is a hard disk model, but it has taken quite a few drops onto a vinyl tiled concrete floor, and is still working just fine, despite some dents to the casing as a result of this.

Whatever player you get, it should have software that allows "ripping" your CDs into a supported format, so you can load your music onto the player.

Also, the headphones included with any of these players are usually pretty pathetic...I would reccomend looking into better ones as well. The earbuds that came with my Nomad were actually too big to even fit in my ears. I settled on Sony EX-71 earbuds...they have this rubber tip that slides into the outer ear canal to isolate outsided noise. Nice performance and a low cost (around $30 online).
 
IMHO, your best option right now is to get an iPod or a Creative Zen. I have an iPod (60GB, video edtion, yeah, I spent a lot of money, think of all the razors I coulda bought...), but either one should suit anyone's needs.

Even if you don't use iTunes to purchase music, it's interface is rather elegant and has all the features you could want in a music jukebox, it will retrieve artist information for the CDDB and will rip it to anyone of the compatible formats (incuding .mp3), other formats (.wma) I believe are converted to AAC upon transfer from iTunes to the player, but I could be wrong.

The Zen's are nice as well, but the form factor just isn't as elegant as the iPod and I cannot speak to their CD ripping software. I'm sure someone else around here can. Good luck.
 
Thanks gents. Some good information and I like it that it we've seen recommendations from both sides of the iPod fence. I didn't even bother to post this question on an audio forum. Man, those people get downright hateful with each other over stuff like this. This is just some nice, real world advice from people who have actually used these things. Thanks and keep the recommendations coming.

Regards, Todd
 
iPod. Especially if you are new to all this.

If a guy finds an iPod difficult to use, a toaster will be impossibly complex. :)
 
Yeah, I really think if you want to listen to music, and not futz around with hardware and software, get an iPod. If you *like* futzing, get one of the other boxes.:biggrin:
 
iPods are popular because they work well not just because they are a "status symbol".

iTunes is the other plus that you will enjoy if you choose an iPod and it's free! Itunes will organise your music very easily and intuitivly.

I love my 30gig iPod, BUT the earphones that come with it are not great. Check out Shure E2C or E3C.
 
The $70 Creative you've seen from Wal-Mart is great! It runs on AAA batteries so you don't have to worry with recharging it. When I was traveling, it was such a pain to worry with keeping a player charged.

Plus, it will work with WMP 10, or you can just drag and drop files onto it like a flash drive.

IMHO there's no reason to get any other player.
 
Like me you say you're going to use it for podcasts in the main - I bought a generic mp3 player off of ebay - 512Mb - $50, but I wouldn't be surprised if you could get 1Gb for less now.

It plays all the formats, plugs in like a memory stick (it is nice & small), you can save files to it etc and the built in mike is great for recording meetings.

All MP3 players are good IMO at reproducing sound, it is the headphones that lets them down. I threw away the cheapo headphones that came with the player & use a nicer ipod pair instead ... ebay generally sell a selection for $10 or less...., the sound quality is now equal to an ipod.

My current player uses a single AAA battery - this means you don't have to be tied down to a manufacturers battery..., a big advantage. I find a rechargeable battery lasts me all week, but should it run out half way through a track it does remember where it stopped when I replace the battery.

512Mb more than enough for my needs, in fact I wouldn't want anything larger because I would load it up and end up not listening to things - too much choice.

I never run out of space but I also make a point of wiping it clean each week and putting on a new selection.

This program www.replay-radio.com is one of the best things I've ever bought for a computer. It is like a video recorder, you can programme it to record live broadcasts automatically, of course it downloads conventional podcasts as well but it will in fact record anything that plays through your computers sound card.

The BBC is a good source of material http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/ and their listen again facilities are excellent - here's BBC Radio 4's http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/progs/listenagain.shtml

Regards
John
 
Another vote for the Creative Zen. Had one for a few years and it's simple and excellent. Only problem is, my Apple iBook won't talk to it! Since Creative has been sueing Apple for a few year I think Apple have put a stop in their software so Creative doesn't work! Luckily I still have my ancient IBM Thinkpad which is falling to bits but still works for loading and sorting the Zen.

Does anyone out there know if you can get the Apple to work with the Zen by the way?

Cheers

Gareth
 
Thank you John for links. Replay-radio is a site I will check out. I downloaded my first podcasts yesterday. It was The Thistle and Shamrock show with Fiona Ritchie. Fantastic Celtic music on that show. These are about 8 minutes each.

Gareth, thanks for your take on the Zen. I've had my eye on the Creative products and the Zen(micro and just plain Zen)are two nice choices.

Roughrider, the multi-format thing is something that weighs heavily for me. As I said, I'm no music hog but don't want to necessarily be tied to Apple's format alone. It's probably not a big deal but I do like options.

BTW, if anyone out there has a take on the Media Player Classic, please share it. It seems like a great media player for the PC and I still haven't figured out what I'm doing wrong with the install.:redface:

Regards, Todd
 
I also didn't want to be tied to Apple formats. I got mine for $250 because I used a $50 off coupon for Crutchfield. I say try it out and go with Crutchfield because they offer a 30 day money back gurantee with free shipping both ways. If you read the reviews, you can't go wrong with the Vision:M.


Frys/Outpost has it for $249.99 with free shipping.

http://shop2.outpost.com/product/4708139
 
Here's where YMMV really becomes apparent--because I bought 2 iPods precisely because I *did* want to be "tied to Apple.":tongue:
 
majkeli said:
To play iTunes music elsewhere I have to burn the songs to disk and then rip it. That's a pain in the butt, plus it degrades the sound quality. And since I paid for that music it really bothers me that I have to jump through hoops to use it like I want. As an add-on the quality of iTunes music isn't as nice as I'd like.

Though at first I only played .mp3 and .aac files I now also have a growing number of albums ripped to formats that my iPod won't touch, like .flac (lossless) and a few .wma files. So my next player will be more "free" to let me play all my music like I want. Not like they want me to.


First, I just have to say that it is possible to move music from iTunes with out losing sound quality. Second, there is no such thing as a "lossless" digital format, it just won't happen. Third, I have a 40G iPod and love it. Simple to use, easy to organize music, plays popular formats (most people don't care about quality and mp3 is fine for them and when your mobile i.e. exercising or what have you, you can't tell anyway. Earbuds anyone?), and it also serves as an external hard drive.
 
mrob said:
Here's where YMMV really becomes apparent--because I bought 2 iPods precisely because I *did* want to be "tied to Apple.":tongue:

I should note that I am an Apple user, but I know people who use PCs and love their pods as well.
 
tam.audio said:
Second, there is no such thing as a "lossless" digital format, it just won't happen.

Flac & Shn formats are "lossless" as to is Mkw I believe. The former two are widely used by "Free" music bands & CD Rippers for no loss in sound quality distribution. I've found them to compress a wav recording to about half its size, so nowhere near MP3 compression.

I upgraded my www.Replay-Radio.com program to Replay AV - well worth doing. It now downloads "real" audio (& video) files as though they were podcasts.

What portable MP3 players out their play the "real" .rm files?

Regards
John
 
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