Need Advice on Casting Bullets

[PugslyCat]

I am considering a minimal setup for casting some of my own pistol bullets to supplement what I can buy when the market does its roller coaster thing. The goal isn't to save any money over buying foundry cast bullets, just to make sure I have a steady supply of similar bullets the next time the shelves are empty.

I'll take any advice that I can get from this forum.

I'm thinking of getting the following raw materials:

• Ingots of linotype - Raw material for plinking bullets. I'd need about 60 pounds per year at my current rate of shooting.
• Bullet lube - Not sure whether to tumble lube or pan lube. I know it makes a difference in which molds to get as the tumble lube bullets have more smaller grooves than bullets for pan lubing or a lubri-sizer.

I am thinking I'll need the following equipment:

• Safety gear - I figure the same gear I weld in except a face mask with a better view.
• Lee 2-cavity dies - One in each caliber that I'm shooting, maybe more variety or the 6-cavity dies in the future.
• Lee sizing set - At least to get started. If I really get into this maybe a lubri-sizer down the road.
• Lead melting pot - I'm trying to decide between the electric Lee Production Pot for convenience or just a cast iron pot over an open flame for something cheap.
• Dipper - Handy for getting stuff into and out of either type of lead pot with minimal splashing.

Does that sound like a reasonable way to get started in this facet of reloading? My intention is to cast just enough bullets to kind of get the hang of it and basically keep the stuff on the shelf until the next time I get the reloading urge and don't have and can't buy plinking bullets.

 

[rod251]

Casting bullets is fun and rewarding. The cost savings is just a bonus, IMO. I cast for all my handguns. Here's what I can offer from my experience:

For lead, wheel weights are hard to beat. They have the right amount of tin and antimony. I water quench mine. I pay $.75 a pound at my local metal recycle shop. For $30 I can cast a lot of bullets.

Get the Lee tumble lube 2-cavity molds and use Liquid Alox tumble lube. No need to size when you go this route. I cast up a bunch, dump them in an empty Country Crock bowl, squirt on some lube, put on the lid, and tumble for a few seconds. Make sure to use plenty of lube. Bullets should be evenly coated and have a brownish hue when you use enough lube. Underlubed bullets will lead your barrel. Dump them out on some aluminum foil or wax paper, spread them out and leave them overnight. In the morning they'll be slightly tacky to the touch and ready to store or load.

Safety gear: Leather gloves and long pants at a minimum. I have cast in short sleeves before with no problems, but a long sleeve doesn't hurt. I've never used face protection, but it's not a bad idea. The biggest safety concerns are the heat of the pot/mold and possible molten lead splashing on you. Keep water out of your lead and splashes will be eliminated.

For a melting pot, I use a cast iron skillet over a propane burner (the outdoor turkey fryer/fish cooker type). Bottles can be swapped at most stores in my area, and you can cast a LOT of bullets on one bottle.

For a dipper, the best I've found is a cheap metal serving spoon from wally world that I bent with pliers to make into a shallow ladle. I tried the $20 Lyman round dipper and found that I had to keep the level of lead in my pot pretty high for it to work. The more shallow the dipper, the longer you can cast before adding lead to the pot.

A few random tips: To keep your mold lining up when you close it (essential for perfect bullet shape) you have to keep the pins lubed. Cheapo wax candles work great for this. Just get the mold hot, then touch the candle to the pins. Take care to keep the wax out of the bullet cavities or you'll have wrinkly, unusable bullets until the wax burns out. I like to take a couple candles and cut them into pea-sized pieces for skimming the crud off the top of my lead (fluxing). I'll keep one piece longer for lubing the mold. Don't forget to hold a flame to the cavities prior to a casting session. You want the cavities to be black with carbon so the bullets will fall out easily and not stick.

For ingot molds, I use a cornbread muffin pan, the kind that looks like little ears of corn. I think it makes 7 at a time. Whatever ingot mold you choose, avoid teflon like the plague. Teflon and molten lead bond, making your ingots dang near impossible to remove.

Don't forget proper ventilation. Lead fumes are nasty stuff to be breathing. I cast outside under a shed with open walls, and I make sure the wind is blowing at my back so the fumes carry away from my face. If you cast in a more enclosed space, I recommend a fan.

Cast bullets work great for lower velocities like handguns, but when you get into faster stuff (like 1800fps and up) they can be tricky to obtain acceptable accuracy. That's where harder bullets and gas checks come in, but I keep it simple and just cast for handguns and my muzzleloader. Currently I cast .45 ACP, 45 Colt, .357 Mag, .38Spl, 9mm, and .50cal pure lead roundballs. I have a .45 Colt lever rifle that is a tackdriver with cast bullets, but I also have a .357 Mag rifle that I never could get to shoot my cast accurately, so I had to return to jacketed bullets for it.

I'm no expert, but I've have lots of fun and success with cast bullets. Let me know if you have any other questions and I'll do my best to help.

 

[rod251]

A couple more things that crossed my mind: During a casting session, you'll probably have to reapply wax to the pins. You'll know it's time when the mold doesn't want to line up when you close it. Also, you'll need something to knock the sprue plate open and shut. I use an old wooden hammer handle.

 

[PugslyCat]

For lead, wheel weights are hard to beat. They have the right amount of tin and antimony. I water quench mine. I pay $.75 a pound at my local metal recycle shop. For $30 I can cast a lot of bullets.

I keep hearing that modern wheel weights have too much zinc and too little lead to be good for bullet casting. My plan was to simply stockpile linotype ingots, thus I really didn't expect to save any money. That was partly driven by what I had heard others say about wheel weights and partly because it creates a whole step of alloying metal and casting ingots that I hope to avoid.

Get the Lee tumble lube 2-cavity molds and use Liquid Alox tumble lube. No need to size when you go this route.

I thought you still needed to size when using the Lee 2-cavity molds even if you tumble lubed. Lee makes a sizing die for under $20 that goes into a single stage press which seemed like a pretty good deal. I guess I'm not real clear on when you need to size cast bullets and when you don't.

For a melting pot, I use a cast iron skillet over a propane burner (the outdoor turkey fryer/fish cooker type). Bottles can be swapped at most stores in my area, and you can cast a LOT of bullets on one bottle.

I figured on something like the turkey cooker or even just a camping stove if I didn't use one of the electric casting furnaces. One thing I wasn't sure about was whether to use a cast iron skillet or a smaller diameter but deeper cast sauce pan or very small dutch oven over the propane burner.

For ingot molds, I use a cornbread muffin pan, the kind that looks like little ears of corn. I think it makes 7 at a time. Whatever ingot mold you choose, avoid teflon like the plague. Teflon and molten lead bond, making your ingots dang near impossible to remove.

I was thinking the Lee ingot mold is pretty inexpensive, or I could use an aluminum muffin/cupcake pan. Mostly I figured that buying ingots of linotype metal I could bypass the whole step of cleaning up the metal and casting my own ingots.

Also, you'll need something to knock the sprue plate open and shut. I use an old wooden hammer handle.

Yea, a sprue plate knocker seems to be pretty standard gear. On YouTube I see a lot of guys using a dowel with a mug hook in the end.

 

[rod251]

Lead melts around 620 degrees, zinc around 770. It's easy to keep the zinc ones out. The great majority of WWs are still lead. Just pitch any that don't melt after a couple seconds in the pot.

The shallow bands in the tumble lube design don't require resizing, but you must make sure it's a tumble lube mold. The item numbers always have TL in them for tumble lube molds.

For a melting pot, I find shallow is easier. I tried a Dutch oven, but the sides made it tough to get to my lead. I imagine the small furnaces would be the same way. A skillet with about 2" tall sides works great.

 

[PugslyCat]

Thanks, Rob. I'll definitely try some wheel weights down the road a bit. I'm going to start with a few linotype ingots but at the same time see what I can't get going as far as obtaining the weights from some of the local tire shops.

I had seen suggestions that I use two lead pots. One would be dedicated to melting the scrap lead, fluxing it, and cleaning it up a bit to pour ingots. That one supposedly gets pretty cruddy. The second pot would be used to melt the cleaned up ingots and is the one I would actually be pouring/ladling metal from into the bullet molds. In your experience is using the same pot for both tasks not a problem? Do you go from the scrap lead directly to pouring your bullets?

There are now 2 tumble lube molds on my Midway wish list. I'll skip the resizing dies for now. The sizing dies cost almost as much as the 2-cavity molds.

How big of a skillet are you using? I'm guessing a fairly small one unless you are casting many hundreds of bullets at a time. I guess that would be the case, though, as it hardly seems worth getting set up to cast small quantities.

 

[rod251]

I do use two different pots, but honestly, I don't see any difference in the buildup in either one. I've thought about simplifying things and going down to one do-it-all pot. All the crud gets skimmed off the top after you flux. And you end up fluxing during a casting session anyway. I think my skillet is about 8" around. I usually drop between 100-200 bullets per session. You'd be surprised how many bullets you can drop once you get in a rhythm. It takes very little liquid lead to fill a bullet mold, so you don't need a very big pot at all. If you run low, just plop in a couple more ingots, stir, and continue casting.

 

[oldbluelight]

Buy a casting thermometer. Keeping your alloy temp in a narrow range will produce more consistent bullets. Be aware that using paraffin, candle wax, bullet lube or beeswax for fluxing will produce a great deal of smoke and, if the temperature of the alloy is high enough, they will flash and burn away, a startling but generally harmless event. I've found that using a one inch hardwood dowel to stir the pot periodically is an excellent substitute for fluxing with volatile materials. The dowel will char and the carbon is a very good fluxing material for promoting a thorough blending of the metals and lift out impurities. Avoid most commercial fluxes. Many of them contain ammonia compounds and they will produce hazardous fumes and promote corrosion on all ferrous metals in use or nearby. Look around for a small, stainless steel handled tea strainer (I found mine in a supermarket). It allows you to skim the dross off of the alloy easily with minimal waste. Do not have or use any liquids in your casting area. One small drop of water entering the pot will instantly and explosively vaporize. Molten lead dots on your face, hands, neck - any exposed flesh - make razor burn look like a soothing alternative. In addition to welding gloves wear long sleeved shirts, jeans, heavy socks and high topped boots or shoes that are covered by your pant cuffs. Avoid all synthetic fabrics for your clothing. There are a number of very good forums that focus on bullet casting. Linotype is not needed for most pistol bullets. I use a lead-tin alloy of 20/1 for almost all my casting of pistol bullets and bullets for my black powder cartridge rifles. One important element of casting with Lee moulds is getting and keeping the mould hot by casting at a fairly rapid pace. Expect a learning curve.

 

[tinashubby]

I bought a mold, dipper, flux and lube and sourced some simple second items when I decided to cast my own .365 Makarov bullets. Turns out the hard part to find in my area was the lead. I thought it would be as easy as going to a local tire shop, but it wasn't the case. I later sold all of that stuff brand new, and later sold the gun.
I originally thought it would be an interesting aspect to add to my reloading hobby, but with all of the safety concerns and the availability of lead, it was turning into a bit of a hassle rather than enjoyment. I just decided to keep buying bullets. I certainly can appreciate the effort of guys who cast their own.

 

[ylekot]

Subscribed!!!

A lot of good info here and I have been considering starting this myself!

 

[the_ogre25]

I was thinking the Lee ingot mold is pretty inexpensive, or I could use an aluminum muffin/cupcake pan. Mostly I figured that buying ingots of linotype metal I could bypass the whole step of cleaning up the metal and casting my own ingots.

Use a steel cupcake pan for your ingots if you go that route. I am not sure if its is the heat cycles or the weight but a buddy cast and said that aluminum will just give out on you and then you have molten lead flowing out.
I think it was mentioned but you do not want linotype ingots. they are to hard to cast pistol bullets and are added to increase hardness and the fill out property's of other alloys.

 

[oldbluelight]

I bought a mold, dipper, flux and lube and sourced some simple second items when I decided to cast my own .365 Makarov bullets. Turns out the hard part to find in my area was the lead. I thought it would be as easy as going to a local tire shop, but it wasn't the case. I later sold all of that stuff brand new, and later sold the gun.
I originally thought it would be an interesting aspect to add to my reloading hobby, but with all of the safety concerns and the availability of lead, it was turning into a bit of a hassle rather than enjoyment. I just decided to keep buying bullets. I certainly can appreciate the effort of guys who cast their own.

Sorry that you backed out of the endeavor because you couldn't find lead easily. There are a number of online sources for bullet casting materials. I blend my own alloys and am fortunate enough to have a local business, a foundry/machine shop, that will sell me pure lead and lead/antimony alloy. One online source for lead and lead alloys along with pure tin for blending your own alloy is RotoMetals, http://www.rotometals.com. Many of the large online firearms retailers also feature casting alloys. Indoor shooting ranges will sometimes part with the spent bullets recovered from their backstop. Wheel weights aren't an ideal casting material because of the amount of cleanup you have to do before you can use the metal. Of course if you can get them free or very cheap it's worth the time to save the money.

 

[accunlmtd]

All the comments above are good, but just a couple more.
I have been casting for over 40 years, and made just about every mistake one can make, but since I have all my digits and both eyes still work, I figure that they were learning experience.

1. Log onto and join the Cast Boolits forum, there is a untold wealth of information there.
2. Buying a copy of the Lyman loading manual, huge section on casting.
3. EYE protection, EYE protection, EYE protection.....Nuff said
4. Gloves, The thin cheap leather ones are great, as are the cotton work gloves. I use the latter, YMMV.
5. Mold care, take care of them and your grand kids will still be using them. Even the Lee aluminum ones. Keep the alignment pins lubed and with decent care, they will last.
6. Speaking of mold care, Google...KANO Labs, and order a can of "Parteze" best stuff I have ever used. Spray it on the mold and bullets just don't stick. While your wallet is out, order a can of Kroil, spray a bit down your barrel after shooting, and the barrel will wipe clean, even any leading. The benchrest guys swear by it.
7. After years ( decades) of using a open pot over a hot plate, I finally broke down and bought the Lee PRO 20 pound bottom pour, and cursed myself for not buying one years (decades) earlier. One of the best 100 bucks you will spend.
8. Molds... I have steel, iron and aluminum, I can tell you that, the Lee alum. ones are top notch and will hold their own with the steel ones. Plus are a LOT lighter. After a long casting session, you will appreciate the difference in weight. I have a couple of the 6 cavity...OMG are they great.
9. Make use of your local Goodwill, they will always have cast iron pots and stuff...even if you have a production pot ( see #7), you will still need a iron pot to dump debris, or the hangers from wheelweights. Stainless ladles are really handy, lead doesn't stick to SS.
10. As mentioned above, wheelweights are perfect. I drop them from the mold into a small bucket of water (water quench), I NEVER have a leading problem.
11.I have tried the no-size, tumble lube bullet molds that Lee makes. I find them OK...but still prefer a real sized bullet with the lube forced into the groove.
12. Speaking of sizing, The inexpensive push thru sizer die that Lee has is good, beats having nothing. But if you are going to really do it right, you will end up getting a real sizer-lubricator. I had a Lyman 450, for 20 years, finally let my daughter have it, and bought a Redding. Both are good. Biggest difference, is the Redding can use solid sticks of lube, where the Lyman has to have the ones with a hollow core....mox-nix.
13. Ventilation... there is a wealth of horror stories about how deadly lead is. In it's cold or melted state it is about as safe as can be. But it a vaporous state... it can be toxic over the long term. That may be 50 years of being in a foundry, but why tempt fate. You don't need a special vented area, just a nice breeze blowing it away from you. Keep the kids away, and that goes for when you are casting as well. Nice shiny bullets are too tempting for a kid not to pick up, but they still could be 500 degrees. I have a place in my shop, which I vacuum after I am done.
14. Wrinkled bullets = mold not hot enough so either kick up the lead temp or let the mold heat up more, frosted bullets = mold too hot (slow down a bit).

Thats about enough for now

Al in Colorado

 

[accunlmtd]

A couple more thoughts;

Where to get wheel weights?
I have three reliable sources.
1. Tire stores, often won't sell them to you, but bringing a box of donuts works wonders on the guys.
2. Metal salvage places, you can get all kinds of scrap lead. from wheel weights to lead pipe to lead sheets. The lead pipe and sheets are pure lead and are perfect for muzzleloading bullets. for handgun, you will have to alloy it with antimony.
3. My shooting buddies big Chevy truck. I can park next to him and get 2 pounds of wheel weights.

 

[rod251]

Tire stores, often won't sell them to you, but bringing a box of donuts works wonders on the guys.

Find out what beer they drink and show up with a case. Works even better than donuts.

 

[PugslyCat]

Bullet casting isn't something I am looking into as an expansion of my reloading hobby. It's more of an emergency measure I am looking into for when I can't buy bullets to do my reloading with. That being the case, I'm truly looking for the most economical way to get started.

A cast iron skillet over an open flame seems to be the most economical way to get started.

So it sounds like linotype isn't the cats meow after all. There are other alloys available from RotoMetal and Midway that I can stockpile for casting. I'll do some more research before I load up on ingots.

It is still my plan to buy ingots of casting metal, but I'll give the local shops a try to see if I can't get some wheel weights from them to supplment the ingots that I'll be buying.

I'll probably get a single, 2-cavity Lee tumble lube die in each caliber I choose to reload in. If I get into bullet casting as a hobby instead of as an emergecy measure I may look into the Lee production pot, additional dies and a lubri-sizer.

 

[oldbluelight]

Pugsly, I just remembered one other source for casting alloy, check with your local hardware or plumbing supply. If they carry plumber's lead and 50/50 bar solder you can create a very good alloy by mixing 10 lbs of plumber's lead with a 1 lb ingot or spool of 50/50 solder. The plumber's lead is pure lead and 50/50 solder is a blend of lead and tin. Mixed in those proportions it will be very close to a 20/1 lead-tin alloy. It will certainly be tough enough for pistol velocities and, if you're running the rounds through a revolver, probably more accurate than lino. Revolver bullets go through several 'contortions' as they transition from the chamber, through the forcing cone and into the rifled barrel. It sounds counter intuitive but softer alloys have less tendency to lead the bore when used in a revolver.

 

[Kilroy08]

Checkout the guys over at http://castboolits.gunloads.com More than you could ever hope to want to learn over there. They're a pretty friendly crowd and more than happy to help.

Keeping an eye on Craigslist is one way to find lead. Yard/estate sales with lots of fishing stuff usually yields plenty of lead sinkers. I ran in to a fellow posting on there wanting to buy scrap lead. I emailed him asking if he was selling and wound up with 50 pounds of the stuff. Ebay is another source, along with Rotometals.

The Lee sizers that screw in to a single stage press work nicely enough. I have a few and like them for what little I do. When I move up to doing more, I would like an RCBS or Lyman lube-sizer.

I'm not in to casting as much as I want to be. A man only has so many hours in a day, and only so many dollars in his wallet.

 

[PugslyCat]

Pugsly, I just remembered one other source for casting alloy, check with your local hardware or plumbing supply. If they carry plumber's lead and 50/50 bar solder you can create a very good alloy by mixing 10 lbs of plumber's lead with a 1 lb ingot or spool of 50/50 solder.

Keeping an eye on Craigslist is one way to find lead. Yard/estate sales with lots of fishing stuff usually yields plenty of lead sinkers. I ran in to a fellow posting on there wanting to buy scrap lead. I emailed him asking if he was selling and wound up with 50 pounds of the stuff. Ebay is another source, along with Rotometals.

Thanks for the recomendations, guys. I figure that when I'm really going to be wanting to cast a bunch of bullets the gun shops won't have any casting alloy left, so other sources will be the order of the day.

Checkout the guys over at http://castboolits.gunloads.com More than you could ever hope to want to learn over there. They're a pretty friendly crowd and more than happy to help.

I just signed up over there.

I'm not in to casting as much as I want to be. A man only has so many hours in a day, and only so many dollars in his wallet.

That's exactly why I don't want to get into another hobby within a hobby, although I'm quite capable of . I just want to be ready for the next time we go through a year of component shortages.

 

[accunlmtd]

One thing that I really enjoy about casting, is taking some ugly looking lead, and turning it into nice shiny bullets. I think it just goes with the American spirit of Independance. I don't need to go buy them from someone else. I can make them for myself. This is something I will tend to do on cool fall mornings. Go fire up the lead pot, brew up a cup of tea, and cast for 2or3 hours. To me it is relaxing after a long hard week.
It was also something my oldest daughter like to do with me, so it was father-daughter time to talk. Now that she has moved on, we both miss those times. Although she still casts for her own shooting.
Yes you can save money, but don't forget that there are other things in life.

al in colorado