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Need a little help honing.

Hello all. I apologize for my long-windedness; I just want to be thorough.

I haven't visited this website in a couple of years, which makes me feel bad. Nevertheless, I've had a little hang-up that I was hoping you could all help me with. I really hope this thread doesn't get buried!

I've been shaving with straight razors for about four years, but I've always had someone else hone for me. I recently bought a Norton 4K/8K and I'm using it to rehabilitate some nicer vintage razors I've picked up here and there - I've been practicing on a Robeson ShurEdge and a Heljestrand Mk31. Each was in reasonable condition before I began; however, neither had a cutting edge.

I set out sharpening the ShurEdge, which was rather dull. My technique is obviously entirely unpracticed - I must have done a hundred passes on each side or more. After viewing some videos (particularly Lynn's World of SRS DVD) and reading some forums, I settled on the pyramid method - first an aggressive regimen, then a much more relaxed one.

Anyway, the point is that I've gone back to the conservative pyramid about five times, each with a good stropping, and every time the final shave test is uncomfortable.

I keep second-guessing myself: am I working with a wire edge? (Doubtful.) Did I not properly set the bevel? (How could I not have?) I'm at a loss, and there's no one I personally know who could take a look and give me some guidance based on my technique or the bevel quality.

What I'm left with is a razor that's sharp enough to cut off my arm hair, but not consistently on one pass. It's got about 1/8" flattening on the spine, which really bums me out because it's a nice piece. I've never gotten the piece to feel as smooth on the thumb pad as my working Timor (which is soon due for a honing itself), or my disposable blade straight razor that I'm using in the interim. I'm scared to mess up the Heljestrand, which I love.

Can anyone please help me? I'm not sure where to go from here!
 
If the 8k is the last stone you're using, that could be why it shaves, but not comfortably. A few might shave off the 8k, but most move on to a 12k, 16k, 30k, coti, thuri, escher, etc... for finishing.

Consider the 4k/8k as your sharpening stage, and then you follow it up with finishing stages. You've got it sharp enough to shave, but not finished to where it shaves comfortably. If that makes sense...
 
I agree with Chris, 8K is just the middle stages of honing, IMHO. I think the Norton stones would make a great stone for woodworking tools, but for shaving I want further refinement.
Though I have no doubt that lots of guys are able to shave with an edge off an 8K stone, I'm not one of them.
I've also got no exprience with the Norton stones, but my personal feelings are that the "pyramid" method is nuts. It makes no sense to me at all to move backwards in the progression after expending all that work to achieve some refinement. It's just counter-intuitive.
It does occur to me that you may be able to lessen the aggressivness of the 8K by applying shaving lather to the stone, but don't take me at my word, the stone is quite porous so the lather may cause you some grief with it later on if any residue builds up. Anther option might be to try some glycerin instead of water. Another thing that might be worth a try is the "Hard Soap" method (just brain-storming here...)
There are also other options available to you, such as diamond lapping sheets, a Chinese 12K and, of course, various strop treatments.

Good luck. And do let us know how you get on!
 
Thanks for the advice, guys. I've spent lots of time and effort on these razors - another step doesn't annoy me.

A follow-up question that I have is whether I should let the 1/8" or so of spine wear bother me too much. I'm inclined to feel like a great shave negates the wear to a degree, but I'm wondering whether I went overboard on the 4K, which really cuts away a fair amount of metal.
 
I might have to try that hard soap method... hehe

you should!:wink2:
It's a good experience, and seems to add a bit of refinement to the edge, without the draw-backs of pastes and such. For a while there, I was putting anything I could think of on my stones.
 
Thanks for the advice, guys. I've spent lots of time and effort on these razors - another step doesn't annoy me.

A follow-up question that I have is whether I should let the 1/8" or so of spine wear bother me too much. I'm inclined to feel like a great shave negates the wear to a degree, but I'm wondering whether I went overboard on the 4K, which really cuts away a fair amount of metal.

I'm not too concerned with spine wear myself, but I don't have any with fancy spines. If it's getting excessive, perhaps you're using too much pressure.
 
The wear is a big issue only to the aesthetics of the razor. My own pet theory is that the spine wear is necessary to maintain correct bevel angles.
I don't do very much work with my razors on the lower grit stones so the wear I experience is very very minor. Almost undetectable.
One technique i do use to avoid exaggerated spine wear is to apply some slight torque to the razor (while still keeping it flat on the stone) to increase the cutting action on the bevel while trying to reduce that same cutting action on the spine.
The Nortons are quite aggresive cutters too, in my understanding, so a very light touch is required.
 
Sounds to me like you never really set the bevel correctly. If this isn't done, no amount of work any stone will do any good. The Norton 8K is a fine enough stone to get a decent shave from, not great, but imo it does need more refinement.
 
If you were doing a lot of heavy work honing out chips, you might want to tape the spine, I don't think the effect on the bevel angle will make an appreciable difference in the end result.

I find tape on the spine just feels weird on the hone.
 
How do you know the bevel is set correctly?
I doubt the problem is the 8k finish, 8k Norton produces very nice shaving edges.
 
The fact is, I'm not sure the bevel is set correctly. The light reflects off of it nicely and evenly, and each part of the blade cuts arm hair without trouble.
 
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