Neck irritation following diet change.

[TheKman]

G'day folks,

Very quick history; When the Timeless 0.68 SB arrive a few weeks back I experienced a revelation of smooth irritation free shaving. A month ago I also stopped eating animal products in favour of a whole-food vegan diet. It seems I may be experiencing the first negative consequence of the dietary change.

So, I've got my basic techniques working well, good gear, child-free bathroom time, patience... and the results had improved accordingly. I received less nicks, less irritation and a closer shave. However, now I seem to be going backwards. Everything above the jawline is fine, nice and smooth, no bleeding, no soreness and I've forgotten the last time I nicked one of my moles. My neck on the other hand is turning into a nightmare of red, sore skin no matter how I shave or what I shave with and takes hours to recover.

Factors which come to mind:
1) I've lost 6.5kg in a month (14.3lb).
2) All of the major inflammatory ingredients have been removed from my diet.
3) I'm eating considerably more natural anti-inflammatory and anti-oxidant compounds. Orders of magnitude more.
4) I'm drinking at least twice as much water as I was.
5) Switched Proraso Green for Truefit & Hill 1805.

Relevant Observations:
1) The weight loss has made my skin a little more relaxed.
2) Blood flow to skin and extremities is markedly higher.

In terms of routine the only thing I've changed recently is the regular use of T&H 1805 cream rather than Proraso Green. A couple of weeks ago I'd have said they performed the same and I liked the scent better, but now I couldn't say. On the other hand the stark contrast in irritation and blood-letting above and below the jawline indicates something localised rather the common.

Is the dietary change a red herring? Does it sound like an allergic reaction? I'm open to any and all suggestion or experience folks, please help!

 

[Doc4]

My neck on the other hand is turning into a nightmare of red, sore skin no matter how I shave or what I shave with and takes hours to recover.

 

[ackvil]

You may want to consult a dermatologist about this issue. My wife has some vegan friends who claim that their skin improved after going on this diet. However, I really did not see any such improvement on the two who went on that diet after I met them. Often vegans are at risk for protein and vitamin B12 deficiencies. Vitamin B12 comes from animal products and you may need to look to supplements if you are deficient since this can have an adverse impact on your skin.

In any event, it is best to consult a doctor who can determine if you have such a deficiency or what the cause is of your problem.

 

[61fatboy]

I have also cut meat out over the last 2 weeks and have had no issues. Not vegan or anything like you but maybe try going back to the Proraso to see if that is the problem.

 

[Highspeedlane]

You may want to consult a dermatologist about this issue. My wife has some vegan friends who claim that their skin improved after going on this diet. However, I really did not see any such improvement on the two who went on that diet after I met them. Often vegans are at risk for protein and vitamin B12 deficiencies. Vitamin B12 comes from animal products and you may need to look to supplements if you are deficient since this can have an adverse impact on your skin.

In any event, it is best to consult a doctor who can determine if you have such a deficiency or what the cause is of your problem.

Great advice Jim.

 

[TheKman]

Often vegans are at risk for protein and vitamin B12 deficiencies. Vitamin B12 comes from animal products ...

Actually B12 comes from bacteria and single-celled organisms which live at the ground level and roots of the plants they eat and from faecal matter (floral in the lower gut of animals). Yum! But you're right, there is no natural source of B12 in the modern diet, except animals. I'm already taking a daily B12 supplement, but as far as I know there is no direct relationship to skin conditions and if other effects of adequate B12 are to be believed I may have actually increased my bio-available intake. As for Proteins, I believe only plants can synthesise proteins from Amino acids and Nitrogen; beans and grains. I'm eating a lot more of these too.

Point taken regarding a doctors visit. A massive in change in diet warrants some bloods.

I have also cut meat out over the last 2 weeks and have had no issues. Not vegan or anything like you but maybe try going back to the Proraso to see if that is the problem.

I didn't notice a change until about a week ago. Weight lose and energy increase seem to be accelerating rather than slowing as you might expect with a 'diet'. If I imagine that the level of toxic compounds in my body is reducing with a half-life, it feels like the improvements are growing inversely quickly. I'd be very interested to note if you notice any changes!

And yes, I've taken the T&H out already, tomorrow will be Proraso.

 

[TheKman]

Just had a thought about what else may have changed. It's winter in Melbourne (Aus) and we've had the coldest whether of the year in the last couple of weeks. I've also noticed that I'm feeling the cold a lot more since changing my diet, presumably the anti-inflammatory effect, not sure.

Result... Longer hotter showers in the morning!

Am I preparing my bristles well, but by skin badly perhaps? The original recommendation I received included a hot shower before shaving and it never occurred to me to try anything else. I imagine most of the members here are from the northern hemisphere and experiencing the opposite effect right now, has anyone experimented with hot or cold showers/shaving water?

 

[robphilldog]

Actually B12 comes from bacteria and single-celled organisms which live at the ground level and roots of the plants they eat and from faecal matter (floral in the lower gut of animals). Yum! But you're right, there is no natural source of B12 in the modern diet, except animals. I'm already taking a daily B12 supplement, but as far as I know there is no direct relationship to skin conditions and if other effects of adequate B12 are to be believed I may have actually increased my bio-available intake. As for Proteins, I believe only plants can synthesise proteins from Amino acids and Nitrogen; beans and grains. I'm eating a lot more of these too.

Point taken regarding a doctors visit. A massive in change in diet warrants some bloods.



I didn't notice a change until about a week ago. Weight lose and energy increase seem to be accelerating rather than slowing as you might expect with a 'diet'. If I imagine that the level of toxic compounds in my body is reducing with a half-life, it feels like the improvements are growing inversely quickly. I'd be very interested to note if you notice any changes!

And yes, I've taken the T&H out already, tomorrow will be Proraso.

Hi TheKman. I've looked into this claim that only plants produce protein, and although that may be correct, it seems to be used as propaganda by some of the populist vegans. The fact is that all animals are virtually made of protein, hence why you get a hell of a lot more protein from eating a piece of steak than from eating a plant. If you feel you're getting sufficient protein from plant sources, that's good though. Would be interesting to see what the issue is though. Jim has given some great advice re seeking the doctors opinion. Hopefully you can get on top of this

 

[TheKman]

I confess it's pretty easy to start sounding like a fanatic, the temptation to preach and such. I've had to deliberately limit myself to evidence based science and leave opinion at the door. The truth is it's own defence, it's very easy to see how opinion becomes conflict on this subject. I'm a pacifist.

As for professional advice I reckon this is a bit of a mine field honestly. Doctors in my experience haven't been well versed in nutrition, where dieticians and natropaths have limited diagnostic scope. Any time there's a conflict between experts there's little choice but to become your own expert. When i feel like I've got a dietary pattern I'll consult for adjustments, all the same.

 

[djh]

Simple answer: you have lost an awful lot of weight in a very short period of time. Shaving above your jawline is still ok, but you are experiencing serious problems with your neck. Stretch the skin of your neck during the shave- it is a difficult area to flatten at the best of times but following a quick weight loss the problems become even more pronounced.

Oh, and Rub some bacon on it.

 

[ouch]

I confess it's pretty easy to start sounding like a fanatic, the temptation to preach and such. I've had to deliberately limit myself to evidence based science and leave opinion at the door. The truth is it's own defence, it's very easy to see how opinion becomes conflict on this subject. I'm a pacifist.

Q: How do you know someone is a vegan?
A: They'll tell you.

 

[TheKman]

Q: How do you know someone is a vegan?
A: They'll tell you.

Can I have a hallelujah! Honestly though, I've just read a book by Dr. Michael Greger MD called 'How not to die' and it's really hard to know all that I now know and not shout it like scripture. A Vegan diet wasn't really the point, it was just the result of new knowledge.

Anyway, I did solve this problem, though I don't have absolute certainty which problem I solved. This morning I had a short warm shower, used tepid shave water, replaced the Feather blade with a Polsilver SI and turned out the T&H for Proraso green which resulted in a much better shave even though the bristles were not nearly as soft. After several hours of soreness yesterday I wasn't really prepared to trial individual changes to find the cause, so now that I know it's one of three things I can be a bit more systematic. But, I went for a full three-pass BBS and it feels marekedly better than yesterdays 2+ pass DFS. Instinct tells me it's the prep, so tomorrow I'll try a Feather, then try the T&H again if that works out.

Thanks for all your input folks.

 

[ouch]

Just remember- moderation causes cancer.

 

[Cal]

Factors which come to mind:
1) I've lost 6.5kg in a month (14.3lb).
2) All of the major inflammatory ingredients have been removed from my diet.
3) I'm eating considerably more natural anti-inflammatory and anti-oxidant compounds. Orders of magnitude more.
4) I'm drinking at least twice as much water as I was.

The old old "just change one thing at a time" is what you should be doing IMO. That way you can see if that one thing agrees with you or not, act accordingly, then move on.

The above is simply too much too soon.

Let's say you have a petrol (gasoline) car. You run it till it's empty then fill it with diesel. At the same time you top up the oil till you can't get any more in (well above the "max" mark); then you top up the coolant similarly. Sure, you're not going to die (quite) as quickly as your car because your system is programmed to survive. But just think of the incredible shock that you've inflicted on your system. Stop it!

And after you've rubbed some bacon on it, bear in mind that what works a treat for one person can easily kill another off. "Diets" are unhealthy, unnatural, and plain stupid.

Please accept my apologies if you found that a bit harsh, but it's simply my opinion... and I HAD to say it.

 

[robphilldog]

Agreed, it's best to make small adjustments and limit the variables rather than making radical changes. With regards to diet, one thing that often concerns me as a health conscious person is when someone tells me how much weight they've lost in such a short space of time. IMO, the goal of weightloss should be about trying to keep as much muscle mass as possible. You shouldn't attempt to lose weight too rapidly or you risk crashing your metabolism. My main issue with dieting is that it encourages an unhealthy attitude towards weight loss. It's unhealthy to eat under a certain percentage of your daily requirements. For the average person, the sweet spot for wight loss is around 400 calories in deficit of your maintenance (where you can lose fat whilst maintaining your muscle). I've seen lots of people who have gone on an overly restrictive diet and ended up yoyoing back to a heavier weight than before.

 

[TheKman]

I appreciate the input folks. Rather than start rebuking opinion I'll simply make a couple of facts clear. My wife and I didn't set out to loose weight by dieting, we simply changed what we eat based on new knowledge. Remove animals, processed foods and saturated fats, add lots of fruit and veg, grains and legumes. The increased energy, clearer skin, weight loss and many other benefits are simply happy side effects.

As for energy intake, we don't count calories and I've never eaten this much food in my life. Even as a teenager.

I had a day off today so I've not shaved. I'll report back when the cause is nailed down.

 

[robphilldog]

Hmm, I don't mean to sound argumentative here, but regardless of whether you count calories or not, you can't be eating more calories than before and still be losing weight (unless you're doing a whole lot more exercise than before). That's not an "opinion" either, it's simply the laws of thermodynamics. In order for you to be losing all that weight in such a short space of time (again, assuming you haven't been training like a madman) you must have been eating in a caloric deficit. However, it might seem subjectively that you're eating more. I'm just saying be careful about losing too much weight too quickly, as it's likely you have lost a bit of lean muscle mass too.

BTW I'm glad you seem to be having some progress with your shaving problems.

 

[TheKman]

I used to believe that was true. I now believe the chemistry is considerable more complex than that.
According to thermo dynamics I've burned roughly 250,000kj in a month sitting down and eating like a machine. Seem reasonable?

 

[robphilldog]

I used to believe that was true. I now believe the chemistry is considerable more complex than that.
According to thermo dynamics I've burned roughly 250,000kj in a month sitting down and eating like a machine. Seem reasonable?

What chemistry would you suggest would be at play here? Unless you have something like an overactive thyroid, I don't see how you would be any different to any other human. I'd suggest you've been eating less than your maintenance level of calories, leading to weight loss like any other person who loses a lot of weight (excepting those with medical conditions)

 

[robphilldog]

Honestly, I would suggest recording everything you eat for a day. It's going to be hard for you to compare it with before if you hadn't recorded it then, but you'll probably surprise yourself. Keep in mind that protein and fats have more calories than carbs. If you're eating a lot of fibrous carbs, you're probably fulling yourself up more (sitting around grazing on plants all day would do that).
BTW I've stopped counting calories now and go by the mirror, but if I change up my diet radically (especially the macro nutrient breakdown - carbs, fats, proteins), I'll always do a week or so of recording what I've eaten and loosely calculate my daily intake to compare it to before. Once you know roughly where you're at you can relax a bit more.